Electric Europa

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Europa's Ice plates

Unread postby Frantic » Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:15 pm

http://www.space.com/27059-jupiter-moon-europa-plate-tectonics.html

So. They are using a jigsaw puzzle method to determine that :
Big slabs of ice are sliding over and under each other within Europa's ice shell, a new study suggests. The Jovian satellite may thus be the only solar system body besides Earth to possess a system of plate tectonics.


If this is a solid ice body, why moving plates of ice? We call these ice sheets and glaciers on Earth not tectonics. Is Europa a liquid ocean or an ice-ball? Why would it be solid externally and volcanic with tectonics on the inside?

They call the loss of one ice plate subduction, but actually have no clue what happened.

They cite evidence of potential cryo-lavas of water ice near the subduction zone.

It is amazing how far they will go on a hunch, but never consider EU, and dismiss without a second thought when mentioned.

Of course this is space.com, but amazing how they present their stories. How many times can they say the impossible is possible and attempt to revise the universe?
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Re: Europa's Ice plates

Unread postby BronzeDragon » Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:59 am

They would be better off just admitting that they don't know what caused the phenomenon than to pull possible reasons out of thin air.

But tidal heating generated by the tug of Jupiter's immense gravity, the same phenomenon that keeps Europa's interior ocean from freezing up, may be one of the ultimate drivers, he added.


How does tidal heating warm the INSIDE of the planet, but not the outside? If there's enough heat to keep the interior layers liquid and make boiling water erupt like a geyser, wouldn't the entire surface basically be slush?
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Re: Europa's Ice plates

Unread postby Frantic » Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:47 pm

I agree, cannot understand how tidal forces can accomplish what they say. I might be way off, but I think of a rubberband. When stretched and released you can feel thermal changes at the surface. The physical deformation creating heat should be strongest at the surface.

They also have a vested interest in cryolava and volcanoes as an explanation for the young surface of the moon.

Hard to imagine a volcanic plume which is continuously erupting, variable in location, and only occurs near south pole, by their own admission.

From an article on Europa's Plumes, see how certain they are of everything
2013 has been a rather exciting year for Europa scientists, even without a spacecraft anywhere near the jovian system. We've seen evidence of the salty composition of Europa's oceans; models explaining the deep ocean flow and influence on surface features; evidence of surface phyllosilicates from a cometary or asteroidal impact, and today's exciting news: the Hubble Space Telescope discovery of water vapor plumes from the south pole of this icy moon.


They just seem incapable of creating proper scope and controls for their science. It is ok to work with no experiments to them, no repeatable work is necessary, no evidence beyond light rays and thoughts required. They are even proud of themselves for doing so much with no spacecraft near and no actual data to work with or ability to validate your findings.

BronzeDragon wrote:They would be better off just admitting that they don't know what caused the phenomenon than to pull possible reasons out of thin air.


Exactly, their certainty of assumptions is my only problem with the mainstream. I am open to all ideas, but closing doors on some ideas and claiming certainty to absurdity has completely turned me away and made me skeptical and distrustful of every single word I hear and have been taught regarding science. Treating all ideas with an equal weight I have been led to EU as a more reasonable correction to our understanding than the idea that there is matter which is heavier than everything in the universe put together but it is invisible and spaceless (I could walk right through it without disrupting it, allegedly; as opposed to a blackhole which would rip me apart, but I would actually be eternally stuck in the accretion disk because of the warping of time, well anyway you get the idea)
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Re: Europa's Ice plates

Unread postby BronzeDragon » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:34 pm

Are huge ice sheets even capable of undercutting each other they way they propose? If two ice sheets met, wouldn't friction along the contacting edges cause the ice to melt? And the bigger sheet, with more weight behind it, would simply deform and crush the smaller sheet, not ride up over it. They seem to think that ice behaves the same way rock does, and I'm just not seeing that.

When I picture Europa's ice sheets, I imagine something like this: Image

Only on a much bigger scale--and without the boat. Image Ice sheets floating on the sea tend to just bump against each other, not be subducted like mini continental plates. As the temperature drops, the smaller pieces merge into bigger ones, until large swaths of the Arctic Ocean are completely covered. I don't get why ice would behave differently on another planet.
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Re: Europa's Ice plates

Unread postby nick c » Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:49 am

Wal Thornhill on Europa, from a 2008 Holoscience entry:
http://www.holoscience.com/wp/enceladus ... ric-moons/
The channels are the icy Europan equivalent of lightning rilles on rocky bodies. But instead of being the target of thunderbolts, Europa was a hapless passer-by in a larger electrical exchange. Europa was caught in the crossfire. The small moon was forced to conduct current from one hemisphere to the other across its icy surface. The dominant pattern of rilles suggests a discharge originating from Jupiter. It was an externally imposed electric field between two hemispheres of Europa that gave rise to the discharges that formed the “freeways,” some covering thousands of kilometres in a purposeful manner and ignoring all obstacles.
A discharge tends to form a number of equally spaced current filaments. The force between any two filaments is attractive beyond a certain distance and repulsive inside that distance. That causes each filament to retain its identity and to space itself equidistantly from its neighboring filaments. These powerful parallel lightning bolts streak across the surface, plowing grooves with raised levees of material thrown to either side — or parallel rilles. Once again, it is the parallel furrows that evokes the image of having been “clawed by a tiger.”

Confirmation of the electrical model comes from the even more extraordinary looping, or cycloid, rilles on Europa, known collectively as “flexi.” The longest extends more than 1600 km and is made up of several loops, each roughly 100 kilometres long.

Flexi, like all other rille-like features on Europa, cannot be cracks in the ice. An electrical explanation for the flexi is straightforward. Ice is more homogeneous than rock. This would tend to produce relatively uniform rilles as the discharge channel follows the strong electric field along great circles from the sub-Jovian hemisphere to the opposite hemisphere. It is known that an ambient horizontal magnetic field causes a travelling arc to trace a cycloidal pattern, which is simply a combination of linear and rotary motion. The ambient field would be due to the Jovian discharge that engulfed Europa. The longest cycloidal rilles have loops with a slowly changing radius of curvature. That can be explained electrically because each loop varies in response to the strength of the ambient magnetic field.
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Re: Europa's Ice plates

Unread postby viscount aero » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:11 pm

BronzeDragon wrote:They would be better off just admitting that they don't know what caused the phenomenon than to pull possible reasons out of thin air.

But tidal heating generated by the tug of Jupiter's immense gravity, the same phenomenon that keeps Europa's interior ocean from freezing up, may be one of the ultimate drivers, he added.


How does tidal heating warm the INSIDE of the planet, but not the outside? If there's enough heat to keep the interior layers liquid and make boiling water erupt like a geyser, wouldn't the entire surface basically be slush?


You're not supposed to question the authority of space.com. Go back to being a mind-numbed sheeple and just accept what they say even if it isn't actually possible.

Gravity solves almost everything with dark matter added to tie up anything missing. Gravity not only magically pushes things "out to the Oort Cloud" but it also heats the INSIDES of things while surgically keeping the outsides perfectly frozen! :lol:
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Re: Europa's Ice plates

Unread postby viscount aero » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:15 pm

Frantic wrote:http://www.space.com/27059-jupiter-moon-europa-plate-tectonics.html

So. They are using a jigsaw puzzle method to determine that :
Big slabs of ice are sliding over and under each other within Europa's ice shell, a new study suggests. The Jovian satellite may thus be the only solar system body besides Earth to possess a system of plate tectonics.


If this is a solid ice body, why moving plates of ice? We call these ice sheets and glaciers on Earth not tectonics. Is Europa a liquid ocean or an ice-ball? Why would it be solid externally and volcanic with tectonics on the inside?

They call the loss of one ice plate subduction, but actually have no clue what happened.

They cite evidence of potential cryo-lavas of water ice near the subduction zone.

It is amazing how far they will go on a hunch, but never consider EU, and dismiss without a second thought when mentioned.

Of course this is space.com, but amazing how they present their stories. How many times can they say the impossible is possible and attempt to revise the universe?


You're getting a bit of an attitude there, Mister, questioning the science tabloid space.com and its voice of reason when they allege that unicorns and leprechaun ice tectonics and ice geysers in tidal heating are guiding the planets. Shame on you for thinking critically! :evil:
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Re: Europa's Ice plates

Unread postby Frantic » Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:49 pm

Thanks Nick. Good info as always.

Thinking about that EU perspective I can see why the mainstream want to believe this is tectonics. My question really here was, "how could anyone believe this?" But I now see the obvious motive that drives their belief.
I know it has been pointed out by EU that the same geological processes on Earth occur elsewhere without tectonics. Hence I now understand how they can conjecture and even believe this. It is part of proving their model, they need tectonics badly hence this absurdity.

They actually studied an area as small as the size of Alabama, and consider a plate the size of Massachusetts massive. That entire "plate" was lost to subduction. For Comparison the Lampbert Glacier is 60 mi x 250 mi, approximately 15000 Sq Miles while Massachusetts is 10,554 Sq Miles.

Also realize in addition to this small area they are sampling, the time span is tens of years at most. From our knowledge on Earth, plates do not move that quickly, glaciers can sometimes move quickly however.

So what are they seeing if not plates?

If this were Tectonics, looking at what Earth and Europa have in common should lead to a better understanding of geology caused by Tectonics.

By looking at what Earth and Mars have in common versus Earth and Europa we could roughly determine which geological features require tectonics and which do not.

If they actually did these comparisons they would realize how wrong their ideas are.
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Re: Europa's Ice plates

Unread postby viscount aero » Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:22 am

Frantic wrote:Thanks Nick. Good info as always.

Thinking about that EU perspective I can see why the mainstream want to believe this is tectonics. My question really here was, "how could anyone believe this?" But I now see the obvious motive that drives their belief.
I know it has been pointed out by EU that the same geological processes on Earth occur elsewhere without tectonics. Hence I now understand how they can conjecture and even believe this. It is part of proving their model, they need tectonics badly hence this absurdity.

They actually studied an area as small as the size of Alabama, and consider a plate the size of Massachusetts massive. That entire "plate" was lost to subduction. For Comparison the Lampbert Glacier is 60 mi x 250 mi, approximately 15000 Sq Miles while Massachusetts is 10,554 Sq Miles.

Also realize in addition to this small area they are sampling, the time span is tens of years at most. From our knowledge on Earth, plates do not move that quickly, glaciers can sometimes move quickly however.

So what are they seeing if not plates?


I am wondering if there are solid examples of Earthly "ice tectonics" that they have studied to great thoroughness for them to reach such novel ideas about Europa. Did you ever study the Earth's ice tectonics in school? Are there courses in ice tectonics?
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Re: Europa's Ice plates

Unread postby Metryq » Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:03 pm

BronzeDragon wrote:Are huge ice sheets even capable of undercutting each other they way they propose?

Viscount Aero wrote:I am wondering if there are solid examples of Earthly "ice tectonics" that they have studied to great thoroughness for them to reach such novel ideas about Europa.

Hollywood movies. I've seen several (G.I. JOE was one of them, if I recall) where disintegrating 'bergs rain ice avalanches down on passing submarines. And we all know that ice sinks in water.

BEDEMIR: So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood?
VILLAGER #1: Build a bridge out of her.
BEDEMIR: Aah, but can you not also build bridges out of stone?
VILLAGER #2: Oh, yeah.
BEDEMIR: Does wood sink in water?
VILLAGER #1: No, no.
VILLAGER #2: It floats! It floats!
VILLAGER #1: Throw her into the pond!
CROWD: The pond!
BEDEMIR: What also floats in water?
VILLAGER #1: Bread!
VILLAGER #2: Apples!
VILLAGER #3: Very small rocks!
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Re: Europa's Ice plates

Unread postby viscount aero » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:13 pm

Metryq wrote:
BronzeDragon wrote:Are huge ice sheets even capable of undercutting each other they way they propose?

Viscount Aero wrote:I am wondering if there are solid examples of Earthly "ice tectonics" that they have studied to great thoroughness for them to reach such novel ideas about Europa.

Hollywood movies. I've seen several (G.I. JOE was one of them, if I recall) where disintegrating 'bergs rain ice avalanches down on passing submarines. And we all know that ice sinks in water.

BEDEMIR: So, how do we tell whether she is made of wood?
VILLAGER #1: Build a bridge out of her.
BEDEMIR: Aah, but can you not also build bridges out of stone?
VILLAGER #2: Oh, yeah.
BEDEMIR: Does wood sink in water?
VILLAGER #1: No, no.
VILLAGER #2: It floats! It floats!
VILLAGER #1: Throw her into the pond!
CROWD: The pond!
BEDEMIR: What also floats in water?
VILLAGER #1: Bread!
VILLAGER #2: Apples!
VILLAGER #3: Very small rocks!


:lol:
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Re: Europa's Ice plates

Unread postby viscount aero » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:21 pm

What amazes me is how fantasy-minded and pseudo-scientific modern astronomy and cosmology has become today. Some of the ideas the establishment takes seriously are laughably so awful that I almost think they don't even believe it themselves but are just publishing horsesh!t for the masses.
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Re: Europa's Ice plates

Unread postby Metryq » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:46 am

viscount aero wrote:What amazes me is how fantasy-minded and pseudo-scientific modern astronomy and cosmology has become today. Some of the ideas the establishment takes seriously are laughably so awful that I almost think they don't even believe it themselves but are just publishing horsesh!t for the masses.

It has an effect. Publish enough truly wacky stuff, then someone who believes they are being conservative, sensible and skeptical in their thinking will believe in black holes. I've actually run into it—I ran into someone who thought he was a maverick scientist. And while evaluating some new theory said that it had to be at least as good as establishment models. In this he included that a new theory had to explain black holes and some other nonsense that are not facts, but speculations of establishment models.

“What does it matter if we cannot all understand a theory, as long as the great sage and the elder wise men understand it and agree?” said Calela’s father.
—Prologue to DARK MATTER, MISSING PLANETS AND NEW COMETS by Tom Van Flandern
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Re: Europa's Ice plates

Unread postby viscount aero » Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:09 am

Metryq wrote:
viscount aero wrote:What amazes me is how fantasy-minded and pseudo-scientific modern astronomy and cosmology has become today. Some of the ideas the establishment takes seriously are laughably so awful that I almost think they don't even believe it themselves but are just publishing horsesh!t for the masses.

It has an effect. Publish enough truly wacky stuff, then someone who believes they are being conservative, sensible and skeptical in their thinking will believe in black holes. I've actually run into it—I ran into someone who thought he was a maverick scientist. And while evaluating some new theory said that it had to be at least as good as establishment models. In this he included that a new theory had to explain black holes and some other nonsense that are not facts, but speculations of establishment models.

“What does it matter if we cannot all understand a theory, as long as the great sage and the elder wise men understand it and agree?” said Calela’s father.
—Prologue to DARK MATTER, MISSING PLANETS AND NEW COMETS by Tom Van Flandern


That is all true. I've met some who think exactly like that, thinking they're being innovative when they are merely regurgitating an already failing theory of the establishment.

I don't claim to absolutely know how things work. But if the data begins to seriously challenge a model, contradicting it, then what is the point in claiming the theory is still valid by inventing things that only make the idea more silly?
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Re: Europa's Ice plates

Unread postby Chromium6 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:13 pm

Keep in mind on the Jovian Moons:

The Cause of the Solar Cycle
Miles Mathis
http://milesmathis.com/cycle.pdf
On the Windhexe: ''An engineer could not have invented this,'' Winsness says. ''As an engineer, you don't try anything that's theoretically impossible.''
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