Earth - atmosphere

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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webolife
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Re: Jet Streams Shifting?

Unread post by webolife » Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:54 pm

Regarding the ocean trench sediments, are you aware whether these alleged horizontal layers are backfilled sediments or crustal layers... also, I understand that oceanic basalts are denser than continental granites, thus I have no problem with subduction. Alternatively, trenches may be just the symmetric syncline to the mountainous boundary anticline. Subduction is not required by this explanation. In either case, it is the restoration of the global climate that I picture as the cause of northward drifting jet streams.
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

Lloyd
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What Greenhouse Climate?

Unread post by Lloyd » Tue Jul 01, 2008 9:09 pm

- You said:
it is the restoration of the global climate that I picture as the cause of northward drifting jet streams.
- But I was informing you that local EU theorists don't buy the idea of a greenhouse climate or conventional ideas about conditions on Earth or in the solar system during past ages, whereas your ideas seem based largely on conventional ideas. Aren't they?
- If ocean basalt is denser than continental crust, that doesn't change the fact that the ocean basalt is sitting on denser material immediately below it, in the aesthenosphere I think it's called, which it would have to sink into, but which logically it can't . If ocean basalt is denser than the aesthenosphere, how did denser material form on top of lighter material? Do you claim that magma at spreading zones gets denser as it solidifies? If so, why wouldn't it sink immediately, instead of riding all the way thousands of miles to a trench?
- Besides, I'm pretty sure I've read that pressure wave measurements don't find evidence of subduction layers.

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webolife
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Re: Jet Streams Shifting?

Unread post by webolife » Thu Jul 03, 2008 5:39 pm

You may be right... I'm not strongly arguing for subduction per se as a necessary ingredient to shifting jet streams...
However, at the leading edges of presumably drifting continents, the less dense continental border would tend to ride over top of the denser oceanic basalts, that's all I'm saying. As for the aesthenosphere, the very fact of compression (looking simply at gravity here) would increase the pressure experienced here, and presumed greater density, as well as heat, lending to the apparent plasticity of that region... now if dense basalts were driven downward by heavy, albeit less dense, continental crust, it would undoubtedly leave the evidence that is seen in the increasing depths of earthquake foci found there.
As for your rejection of the "greenhouse" atmosphere, you may be thinking of some specific model that perhaps differs from my use of the term to describe the apparent finding from virtually all fossil layers, that global (worldwide)temperatures were subtropical or warmer for practically all of earth history prior to the recent so-called Ice Epoch.
If my hypothesis for northward shifting jet streams is correct, I would have to make the prediction that the stream will also weaken over the longterm... I am open for other possibilities here... I think the current shift in jet stream may be of too cyclic a nature to be determinably northward trending.
By "local EU" do you mean all contributors to this forum? What evidence to you posit against the concept per se? By the way, I am in no way a supporter of the algore-ian paradigm for global warming, so don't confuse with with those folks!
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

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Saturn Warming

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:35 pm

- I don't deny that the Earth was warm in earlier times, just that it was any kind of greenhouse effect. The alternative is what I mentioned on June 30 above, that Earth was a satellite of Saturn within its warm, but tenuous extended atmosphere, or maybe anode glow. The evidence is in Talbott's Saturn Myth and much of the discussion going on on this forum, this website, and a number of related websites and books etc.
- By local EU people I mean the team who founded this website and their colleagues and supporters. Many who read and discuss on this forum are not necessarily supporters, which is fine with me.

lizzie
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Re: The Condign Report and Terrestrial / Atmospheric Plama

Unread post by lizzie » Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:58 pm

I think the Russian scientists identified this phenomena. They are called vacuum domains. The model contains a physical description of a self-luminous body such as ball lightning, tornadoes, and other anomalous phenomena that are understood as some formation of a polarized vacuum

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... =616#p7964

kmerrell
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High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program

Unread post by kmerrell » Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:33 am

Wired recently ran a story about the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Project (Haarp) in Alaska. Aside from Haarp being a textbook example of creative pork funding, the project begs the question, "Is there a downside to pumping megawatts of electricity at will into the ionosphere?"

Over the years the purpose of the project has evolved to play the funding game. Currently the mission is portrayed this way:

"Haarp's Mission
The heart of the High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program is an ionospheric heater that shoots electromagnetic energy into Earth's atmosphere. Five generators pump out 2.9 megawatts each; 180 antennas convert the electricity into high-frequency radio waves and send them into the ionosphere, which turns them into low-frequency waves. Why? Research. An energized ionosphere could be used for all sorts of cool stuff.

Communication Haarp can bounce signals off the ionosphere with wavelengths long enough to penetrate deep into the ocean and communicate with submarines.

Protection Researchers are testing whether ionospheric waves could nudge H-bomb-generated electrons out of the magnetosphere, shielding orbiting satellites.

Atmospheric Research At about 125 miles up, Haarp's waves can energize free electrons, which collide with neutral atoms to produce a glow like the aurora borealis.

Surveillance How low-frequency waves are absorbed and reflected by the earth can reveal what's underneath—including hidden bunkers."

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/ ... 8/mf_haarp

Any thoughts on the government's ionospheric heater?

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Re: High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:44 pm

Simply a word of caution at the outset. My own viewpoint is that this is an important topic for, and more than worthy of, scientific discussion under the banner of "EU - Planetary Science." As long as the discourse is confined to the SCIENCE aspect here, we'll have no problems. I will only ask that members continue to display their good judgment in keeping the discussion within these upper EU boards relevant to the SCIENCE of the subjects and forbear from the temptation to wander off into the speculative la-la-land of nefarious whys-and-wherefores, military-industrial complex weather control shenanigans, etc and so forth and other conspiratorial or political miscellany. There is a plethora of media throughout the 'net where those interests are encouraged and addressed. This is not the place for it.
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

kmerrell
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Re: High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program

Unread post by kmerrell » Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:04 pm

Jolly good, arc-us. I'd love to hear the EU implications or even predictions for the Haarp project.

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junglelord
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Re: High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program

Unread post by junglelord » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:56 pm

<off-topic, non-science comments deleted; the rest of the post may be taken up here: http://thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpBB3/v ... 443#p24781 - mod>

....I therefore respectfully will bow out. Good luck with that artifical one dimensional analysis.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

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Tzunamii
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Re: High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program

Unread post by Tzunamii » Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:27 pm

junglelord wrote:<off-topic, non-science comments deleted; the rest of the post may be taken up here: http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... 623#p24781 - mod>

....I therefore respectfully will bow out. Good luck with that artificial one dimensional analysis.
Its nice to have at least one dimension that stays out of the politics, and deals with just the science.
Ill enjoy both threads :D .

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junglelord
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Re: High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program

Unread post by junglelord » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:51 am

I assume everyone reading this knows of HAARP. Less known is that HAARP is only one of several such facilities — and not the most powerful one either. There are others, here are five:

1) Mu Radar – 1 megawatt facility in Japan (34°51'14.80"N 136° 6'19.45"E).

2) Arecibo Observatory – 2 megawatt facility in Puerto Rico (18°20'38.97"N 66°45'9.77"W).

3) HIPAS – 70 megawatt facility east of Fairbanks, Alaska (64°52'21.18"N 146°50'18.78"W).

4) Sura – 190 megawatt facility in central Russia (56° 7'10.32"N 46° 2'4.41"E).

5) EISCAT – 1 gigawatt facility in Tromsø, Northern Norway (69°35'1.06"N 19°12'57.11"E).

(you can copy and paste the coordinates into google maps)

By comparison, HAARP (near Gakona, Alaska – 62°23'33.73"N 145° 9'2.61"W) is claimed to be a mere 3.6 megawatt facility — and that’s after being upgraded in 2006. It has 278 times less maximum power than the ionospheric heater in Norway.

Nevertheless, HAARP is far from useless. According to the DARPA:
Key to the current effort was the expansion of the experimental research facility that includes a 3.6 MW high-frequency transmitter and a variety of diagnostic instruments, to conduct investigations to characterize the physical processes that can be initiated and controlled in the ionosphere and space, via interactions with high power radio waves. Among these were: (1) the generation of extremely low frequency/very low frequency radio waves for submarine and other subsurface communication, and the reduction of charged particle populations in the radiation belts to ensure safe spacecraft systems operations; (2) the control of electron density gradients and the refractive properties in selected regions of the ionosphere to create radio wave propagation channels; and (3) the generation of optical and infrared emissions in space to calibrate space sensors.

A study completed by an Air Force/Navy Panel also pointed to additional high-value functions that can potentially be accomplished with the a 3.6 MW capability, in particular, the exploration and refinement of scientific principles that could lead to the development and deployment of a system to provide protection for spacebased assets from emergent asymmetric threats.

HAARP alone has many applications, primarily military, and those listed above are just a small “safe to reveal” set of examples. If 3.6 MW can accomplish these, imagine what 1000 MW might do!

There is an interesting anecdotal account by Dan Eden of HAARP being used for surreptitious purposes.
http://www.viewzone.com/vz.message.html
Furthermore, he claimed that there was a second, secret, more powerful installation in Alaska. Now in 2008, a decade later, the existence of that facility is no longer secret and its name is HIPAS, which is indeed almost twenty times as powerful as HAARP.
HAARP is a Phase Conjugate Non Linear EM System
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... &start=105
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... a&start=15
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

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bboyer
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Re: High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program

Unread post by bboyer » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:43 pm

I suspect there is confusion amongst various [particularly popular vs technical] reports regarding the technical terminology.

For example (emphasis mine):
Using Space as a Nonlinear Plasma Laboratory
Papadopoulos, Konstantinos, University of Maryland
American Physical Society, 50th Annual Meeting of the Division of Plasma Physics, November 17-21, 2008, abstract #CT2.001

Ionospheric heaters have been an important tool of plasma physics investigations. The extent that non-linear plasma phenomena can be triggered and observed depends critically on the heater power, its Effective Radiative Power (ERP) and its scanning capability. Increasing these parameters allows us to reach thresholds associated with effects that were not previously observed. The latest entry to ionospheric heating, the HF transmitter associated with the High Frequency Active Ionospheric Research Program (HAARP) was completed in June 2007. The transmitter consists of 180 antenna elements spanning 30.6 acres and can radiate 3.6 MW of HF power (a factor of almost 4 higher than any previous heater) in the 2.8-10.0 MHz range. With increasing frequency the beam-width varies from 15-5 degrees, corresponding to 20-30 dB gain and resulting in ERP between 1-5 GW. The antenna can point to any direction in a cone 30 degrees from the vertical, with reposition time of 15 microseconds resulting in superluminal scanning speeds. The transmitter can synthesize essentially any waveform and transmit any polarization. These capabilities far exceed those of any previous heater and allow for new frontier research in non-linear plasma physics. The presentation will focus first on the relationship of the new capabilities of the facility with thresholds of physical processes that had not been achieved previously. It will then present new spectacular results that have been achieved during the last year. They include whistler injection and amplification, injection of shear and magnetosonic waves in the magnetosphere, Langmuir turbulence, upper hybrid waves and thermal instabilities, electron acceleration, optical emissions and formation of artificial ducts for whistler propagation. The presentation will also discuss future experiments made possible for the first time by the new transmitter capabilities, large bandwidth and high ERP.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2008APS..DPPCT2001P

I couldn't get to the full-text article link, http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-d ... e=EJOURNAL, which apparently redirects here, http://meetings.aps.org/Meeting/DPP08/Event/88026, and which says "This website is unavailable while undergoing maintenance. We apologize for any inconvenience. Please check back Sunday evening (EST)."

What I'm curious about - in terms of the science - is what effects this historical fiddling about with our ionosphere may have with regard to the rest of the solar system circuit. Sort of like what effects does fooling with load variables (e.g. planet, e.g. Earth) have on the source variables (e.g. Sun) and the rest of the circuit (e.g. solar system)?
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

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junglelord
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Re: High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program

Unread post by junglelord » Sat Aug 22, 2009 2:55 pm

I have been thinking the same thing. Wish I knew the answer.

Some times, I think that we are playing with fire.... (plasma)....
:lol:
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
— Junglelord

mharratsc
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Re: High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program

Unread post by mharratsc » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:29 am

Famous Last Words Heard Across the Millenia:

"Hey... What's this thing do?"

Followed by a posthumous discovery...

Mike H.
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington

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Birkeland
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Scientists discover surprise in Earth's upper atmosphere

Unread post by Birkeland » Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:38 pm

Scientists discover surprise in Earth's upper atmosphere

9/9/2009

UCLA atmospheric scientists have discovered a previously unknown basic mode of energy transfer from the solar wind to the Earth's magnetosphere. The research, federally funded by the National Science Foundation, could improve the safety and reliability of spacecraft that operate in the upper atmosphere.


"It's like something else is heating the atmosphere besides the sun. This discovery is like finding it got hotter when the sun went down," said Larry Lyons, UCLA professor of atmospheric and oceanic sciences and a co-author of the research, which is in press in two companion papers in the Journal of Geophysical Research.

The sun, in addition to emitting radiation, emits a stream of ionized particles called the solar wind that affects the Earth and other planets in the solar system. The solar wind, which carries the particles from the sun's magnetic field, known as the interplanetary magnetic field, takes about three or four days to reach the Earth. When the charged electrical particles approach the Earth, they carve out a highly magnetized region — the magnetosphere — which surrounds and protects the Earth.

Charged particles carry currents, which cause significant modifications in the Earth's magnetosphere. This region is where communications spacecraft operate and where the energy releases in space known as substorms wreak havoc on satellites, power grids and communications systems.

The rate at which the solar wind transfers energy to the magnetosphere can vary widely, but what determines the rate of energy transfer is unclear.

"We thought it was known, but we came up with a major surprise," said Lyons, who conducted the research with Heejeong Kim, an assistant researcher in the UCLA Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences, and other colleagues.

"This is where everything gets started," Lyons said. "Any important variations in the magnetosphere occur because there is a transfer of energy from the solar wind to the particles in the magnetosphere. The first critical step is to understand how the energy gets transferred from the solar wind to the magnetosphere."

The interplanetary magnetic field fluctuates greatly in magnitude and direction.

"We all have thought for our entire careers — I learned it as a graduate student — that this energy transfer rate is primarily controlled by the direction of the interplanetary magnetic field," Lyons said. "The closer to southward-pointing the magnetic field is, the stronger the energy transfer rate is, and the stronger the magnetic field is in that direction. If it is both southward and big, the energy transfer rate is even bigger."

However, Lyons, Kim and their colleagues analyzed radar data that measure the strength of the interaction by measuring flows in the ionosphere, the part of Earth's upper atmosphere ionized by solar radiation. The results surprised them.

"Any space physicist, including me, would have said a year ago there could not be substorms when the interplanetary magnetic field was staying northward, but that's wrong," Lyons said. "Generally, it's correct, but when you have a fluctuating interplanetary magnetic field, you can have substorms going off once per hour.

"Heejeong used detailed statistical analysis to prove this phenomenon is real. Convection in the magnetosphere and ionosphere can be strongly driven by these fluctuations, independent of the direction of the interplanetary magnetic field."

Convection describes the transfer of heat, or thermal energy, from one location to another through the movement of fluids such as liquids, gases or slow-flowing solids.

"The energy of the particles and the fields in the magnetosphere can vary by large amounts. It can be 10 times higher or 10 times lower from day to day, even from half-hour to half-hour. These are huge variations in particle intensities, magnetic field strength and electric field strength," Lyons said.

The magnetosphere was discovered in 1957. By the late 1960s, it had become accepted among scientists that the energy transfer rate was controlled predominantly by the interplanetary magnetic field.

Lyons and Kim were planning to study something unrelated when they made the discovery.

"We were looking to do something else, when we saw life is not the way we expected it to be," Lyons said. "The most exciting discoveries in science sometimes just drop in your lap. In our field, this finding is pretty earth-shaking. It's an entire new mode of energy transfer, which is step one. The next step is to understand how it works. It must be a completely different process."

The National Science Foundation has funded ground-based radars which send off radio waves that reflect off the ionosphere, allowing scientists to measure the speed at which the ions in the ionosphere are moving.

The radar stations are based in Greenland and Alaska. The NSF recently built the Poker Flat Research Range north of Fairbanks.

"The National Science Foundation's radars have enabled us to make this discovery," Lyons said. "We could not have done this without them."

The direction of the interplanetary magnetic field is important, Lyons said. Is it going in the same direction as the magnetic field going through the Earth? Does the interplanetary magnetic field connect with the Earth's magnetic field?

"We thought there could not be strong convection and that the energy necessary for a substorm could not develop unless the interplanetary magnetic field is southward," Lyons said. "I've said it and taught it. Now I have to say, 'But when you have these fluctuations, which is not a rare occurrence, you can have substorms going off once an hour.'"

Lyons and Kim used the radar measurements to study the strength of the interaction between the solar wind and the Earth's magnetosphere.

One of their papers addresses convection and its affect on substorms to show it is a global phenomenon.

"When the interplanetary magnetic field is pointing northward, there is not much happening, but when the interplanetary magnetic field is southward, the flow speeds in the polar regions of the ionosphere are strong. You see much stronger convection. That is what we expect," Lyons said. "We looked carefully at the data, and said, 'Wait a minute! There are times when the field is northward and there are strong flows in the dayside polar ionosphere.'"

The dayside has the most direct contact with the solar wind.

"It's not supposed to happen that way," Lyons said. "We want to understand why that is."

"Heejeong separated the data into when the solar wind was fluctuating a lot and when it was fluctuating a little," he added. "When the interplanetary magnetic field fluctuations are low, she saw the pattern everyone knows, but when she analyzed the pattern when the interplanetary magnetic field was fluctuating strongly, that pattern completely disappeared. Instead, the strength of the flows depended on the strength of the fluctuations.

"So rather than the picture of the connection between the magnetic field of the sun and the Earth controlling the transfer of energy by the solar wind to the Earth's magnetosphere, something else is happening that is equally interesting. The next question is discovering what that is. We have some ideas of what that may be, which we will test."
"The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody had decided not to see" - Ayn Rand

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