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Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Faderbaby
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Re: The Condign Report

Unread post by Faderbaby » Sat May 31, 2008 2:32 pm

What I'd like to do next is summarize the gaps in this report. The unknowns (in terms of plasma formation & behavior) may or may not have defined parameters that someone in this group would recognize as matching another known or theorized plasma or electric or magnetic property. In other words, this group might, with luck, key in on something that the author of the study was not aware of. Within a day or two, I would like to create a post that summarizes these portions of the Executive Summary (the one formerly classified 'Restricted') and reference that summary to detailed quotes in the overall document so that only a couple of areas are focused on. They will likely be the formation of plasmas from meteor remnants and the unusual absorprtion of light between certain bouyant objects (just to give you something to look forward to!). Again, the MoD describes these and other areas as scientific unknowns, so it could go absolutely nowhere. I'll make this a goal over the next few days. Being a PDF certain things have to be transcribed manually. Thanks!

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Re: The Condign Report

Unread post by Faderbaby » Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:57 am

Summary of “EXECUTIVE SUMMARY”
UK Eyes Only
UK Restricted
Secret

“What does all this stuff about flying saucers amount to? What can it mean? What is the truth? Let me have a report at your convenience”
W.S. Churchill 28th July 1952


‘That UAP exist is indisputable. The cause has never before been credibly accounted for. The study correlates data over a 30 year period with the better data covering a period of 10 years. The study makes a conscious effort to take a strictly scientific approach. The conclusion is that the following account for these sightings: 1) Misidentifications of man made and natural phenomenon; 2) Reports of natural phenomenon, and 3) Incidents of relatively rare phenomena that may be on the rise due to natural changes and man made smoke and dust.’

No evidence of the objects being under any control other than natural forces exists. Meteors and some lesser-known effects of meteors are responsible for some UAP.

‘UAP have occurred throughout history and considerable evidence exists to support the thesis that these events are due to physical, electrical or magnetic phenomenon in the atmosphere, mesosphere and ionosphere. The conditions for these (buoyant plasmas) to be formed and the scientific rationale for sustaining them for significant periods is incomplete or not fully understood.’

‘Occasionally, and possibly as the exception, a field with undetermined characteristics can exist between buoyant plasmas in loose formation to create an area from which the reflection of light does not occur. This is often a triangular shape and can be hundreds of feet in length.’

The close proximity to plasma fields can adversely affect persons and vehicles. A (probably) modulated magnetic, electric or electromagnetic (or even unknown field) appears to emanate from some buoyant plasmas.

The Executive Summary re-emphasizes that a relationship between plasmas and magnetic fields to UAPs was an unexpected finding.

End of my Summary (of their summary).

The Weak Areas of the Study:
1. Conditions for the formation and duration of meteor plasmas are not fully understood. Other types of plasmas might be better-understood. For example:

(From Working Paper 19): Mukhavarev (Russia) states that aerosols can accumulate electrical charges as occurs in thunderclouds. A sustaining force (laser) can also move (and energize?) such plasmas. Once this force is removed the dust falls under gravity. So, the equilibrium of the charged particles in the medium (plasma) is determined by external conditions. The aerosol cloud has a mass of only a fraction of a gram, resulting in an absence of inertia that accounts for the amazing accelerations and maneuverability of these objects. They can be attracted to aircraft if within about 10 kilometers.

2. The study mentions (in bold) an unknown “light absorbing” field that creates a false solid appearance between several plasmas. This may actually be old news (though it’s unknown when this information was publicly released). Check out the following Master’s thesis (one paragraph of it):

Laser Light Absorption by Hydrogen Plasma (1972):
http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?verb=get ... =AD0756524 This is from the Defense Technical Information Center website (a DoD website).

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MGmirkin
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Re: The Condign Report

Unread post by MGmirkin » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:55 am

In looking for certain other things, I came across the Condon Report (a separate and much earlier US report than the Condign Report)...

I found Chapter 7 to be most interesting!

(Chapter 7: Atmospheric Electricity and Plasma Interpretations [of UFOs])
http://www.ncas.org/condon/text/s6chap07.htm

While it was written in the process of researching UFO, one can all but ignore the UFO bits and just read the info on atmospheric electricity... Quite an interesting read.

I assume the Condign Report has similarly good bits to those from the Condon Report...?

Found the bits on descriptions of electrical phenomena relating to tornadoes particularly interesting (among other things), as I've done a fair bit of reading on the subject. But they also go into mountaintop electrical discharges, which essentially amounts to "Andes Lightning" (or a corona discharge from the pointy tippy tops of the mountains).

Anyway...

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

Faderbaby
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Re: The Condign Report

Unread post by Faderbaby » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:42 am

Good link! I'll put that chapter on today's reading list. Another angle on this is to look for differences between the U.S. and British analysis of the phenomenon. This looks likes a scientific parallel (without a Top Secret clearance) and the name similarity is something for Intelligence-types to consider. Is "Condign" an update of "Condon", but written for the culture in England? There has been no U.S. reaction to The Condign Report (because nobody in the U.S. cares, since it has no space aliens).

There was a good National Geographic episode on "The Real Roswell" yesterday (without any t-shirt sales pitch) and this led me here: http://www.csicop.org/si/2004-05/skyhook.html. B.D. Gildenberg, a high-altitude Skyhook balloon engineer (stratospheric balloons for various highly-classifed Cold War projects), explains that, "The CIA came to some projects and said, 'Let these remain as flying saucer reports'". Gildenberg gives excellent details in the brief article and takes the line (along with Michael Shermer of eSkeptic) that this is all a study in contemporary myth-making, so of possible interest to this group.

Thanks,
"Fader"

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MGmirkin
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Re: The Condign Report

Unread post by MGmirkin » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:09 pm

Faderbaby wrote:This looks likes a scientific parallel (without a Top Secret clearance) and the name similarity is something for Intelligence-types to consider. Is "Condign" an update of "Condon", but written for the culture in England? There has been no U.S. reaction to The Condign Report (because nobody in the U.S. cares, since it has no space aliens).

[...]

Thanks,
"Fader"
(SUMMARY OF CONTENTS)
http://www.uk-ufo.org/condign/condrep.htm
The summary wrote:
  • Condign is the only (so far as we know) serious attempt by the British Government to study the thousands of UFO reports received by the Ministry of Defence since the Flying Saucer Working Party’s Report in 1951.
  • Until today “the Condon Report” produced by the University of Colorado for the US Air Force in 1969 was believed to be the only substantial Government-funded study of the UFO phenomenon published in English.
  • The MoD say that Condign was a randomly generated word and “any similarity with ‘Condon’ is purely coincidental.”
It appears that the Condon Report (US) and the Condign Report (UK) are separate and unrelated entities aside from coincidentally similar names. That's the party line at any rate. I don't see why the similar naming would be of consequence. Seems easy enough to document the difference in origin and content. So, I'll leave it at that.

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

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MGmirkin
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Re: The Condign Report

Unread post by MGmirkin » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:15 pm

Related articles:

(It's Official: UFOs Are Just UAPs)
http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2006/05/70862

(Electrifying UFOs...)
http://www.wunderkabinett.co.uk/damndat ... -UFOs.html

(Sorry ET, you're just a puff of plasma)
http://digg.com/general_sciences/Sorry_ ... _of_plasma
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 714183.ece

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

lizzie
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Re: The Condign Report and Terrestrial / Atmospheric Plama

Unread post by lizzie » Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:00 pm

Is a vacuum domain the same as a plasma cell?

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... =616#p5644

Dr Nikolai Kozyrev
http://www.divinecosmos.com/index.php?o ... &ltemid=36

A.N. Dmitriev

(Here is a working link for Dr. Dmitriev's article)

http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/global ... sical.html

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... =660#p6407

http://www.jacklittleton.com/ufos.html
He paused and then replied, "There were no associated life forms which could be perceived by any of the six human senses."
Perhaps that’s the key: The UFO phenomena are not easily understandable to us because they are not perceived within our EM bandwidth. In other words, they are part of the EM superspectrum.

Superspectrum Blues
http://www.fiu.edu/~mizrachs/superspectrum.html

Faderbaby
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Re: The Condign Report and Terrestrial / Atmospheric Plama

Unread post by Faderbaby » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:49 am

It appears that the Condon Report (US) and the Condign Report (UK) are separate and unrelated entities aside from coincidentally similar names.
That is an accurate statement of a truly remarkable coincidence. It could also be stated that "there appears to be some similarity in content". Public reaction differed, probably based on cultural factors. Americans want their "flying saucers" and American Ufologists found "scientific flaws" with Condon. I have yet to speak to anyone in England familiar with this topic, but it appears that, maybe, the British public can be apprised of the plasma "UFO" solution without any public outcry.

Thanks to lizzie for quoting "The Colonel", the greatest man I ever knew. The quote was NOT specifically related to plasma in terms of that conversation (from my perspective). It would be supposition to use that statement to support the superspectrum hypothesis. That doesn't mean that it is NOT referring to that (or just a general statement about things that are beyond human comprehension). It seems to communicate that there could be something that is far beyond current human understanding of "life". It appears to fit the outermost fringes of this topic (as described in that link you provided on the superspectrum hypothesis). That article seems to contain both actual studies (military/intelligence applications) and some of the more speculative possibilities. There seems to be circumstantial factors that support some type of extreme possibility. I don't think we know what that may turn out to be. Yet.
Perhaps that’s the key: The UFO phenomena are not easily understandable to us because they are not perceived within our EM bandwidth. In other words, they are part of the EM superspectrum.
Even though this might qualify as "fringe" (according to MG's first post) you never know. It's the extreme that should make everyone equally uncomfortable.

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Re: The Condign Report and Terrestrial / Atmospheric Plama

Unread post by lizzie » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:03 pm

I think it will be difficult to remain "neutral" when trying to deal with this phenomena. We are attempting to describe "entities" that are beyond our comprehension. We have no way to refer to them other than to use extraordinary terms (i.e., speculation). If they are EM "entities" or produce EM field effects, then this would also affect human perception. Most people today still will believe only what they perceive with their senses. On top of all this we must allow for 60 plus years of UFO hype and misinformation, the likes of which we can hardly imagine.

Faderbaby
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Re: The Condign Report and Terrestrial / Atmospheric Plama

Unread post by Faderbaby » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:40 pm

I think that anything that is outside the realm of human perception (or the detection by human-made instruments) is truly an unknown. "Beyond the comprehension of the finite human mind" was said to me numerous times. If this statement is literally true, it can never be known to the human mind. That doesn't mean one thing is right or wrong. It's just "unknowable".

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Re: The Condign Report and Terrestrial / Atmospheric Plama

Unread post by StefanR » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:27 am

Here is a link that has as subject one of the ways the Condign Report sees one of the possible sources of "plasma clouds".
Image
When meteoroids flash through the Earth’s atmosphere, they bore tunnels through the air, leaving behind narrow meteor tracks that are heated by the collision of the fast-moving incoming object with atoms of highly diluted atmospheric gases. Most meteoroids are bits of space debris the size of a grain of sand. The width of the tracks they make has long been known to be narrower than a meter, but until recently, more precise measurements have been impossible to make.

Researchers from the National Astronomical Observatory of Japan, the University of Tokyo, the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency, the University of Electro-Communication, the RIKEN research institute, and Nagano National College of Technology have evaluated the diameters of the heated tunnels left behind as typical sporadic meteors as penetrated the upper atmosphere, scattering atmospheric atoms and releasing photons of light. The team compared the number of special photons produced as a meteoroid collided with the atmospheric atoms and found a typical column width as narrow as a few millimeters across. This is the first time the width of a meteor track column has been precisely measured using a physical analysis of the light emitted during the event.
......
During the 19 hour-long CCD exposures, 55 tracks were recorded. Among them were 13 meteor tracks. Only one was from the radiant of the Perseid meteor shower. Another was associated with the Aquarid meteor shower. Most of the remaining meteor tracks were from sporadic meteoroids. (See Note 1). The actual size of meteoroids studied in the current observation was estimated to be between 0.1 and 1 millimeters (derived from their luminosity).

The physical analysis of the tracks was carried out by team member Professor Masanori Iye, who took a close look at “forbidden line” photons of neutral oxygen atoms radiating at 558 nanometers (nm). These special photons are generated when a high-speed meteoroid (or atoms hit and accelerated by the meteoroid) collide directly with the neutral oxygen atoms. The collision “excites” the oxygen atoms (in other words, the state of the electron orbiting around the oxygen nucleus is elevated to a higher energy orbit). At 0.7 seconds after the collision, on average, the atoms drop back down to their normal state. In this process, they release the special 558-nm “forbidden line” photons (Figure 4).

Typical meteoroid spectra show that these special “forbidden line” photons make up about 10% of the total photons measured through the yellow V-band filter on Suprime-Cam. Therefore, by measuring the number of total photons recorded in the CCD images of meteor tracks, one can calculate the total number of forbidden photons. This requires the same number of collisions of neutral oxygen atoms. Since the volume density of the neutral oxygen atoms at 75 miles is known, and the speed of meteoroids can be estimated, it is possible to calculate the cross section of the column to produce the same number of collisions. Calculations for four meteor events observed in V-band yielded the column diameter of a few millimeters.

Interestingly, the 0.7-second time span at which the neutral oxygen recovers their ordinary state by releasing the “forbidden line” photons is an extremely long time for atomic processes, and the excited oxygen atoms hover about 300 meter away from the collision column during that time. Therefore, the width of the “forbidden line” trail ([OI] wake) is much wider than the main body width of the meteors as derived in the present study.
http://www.naoj.org/Pressrelease/2007/09/10/index.html

I like the general idea of the report in giving a possible explanation of UAP's (or whatever acronym one wants to give) in the way of plasma effects, but I'm kind of sure only a portion of reports can be explained that way. And also I get the impression the Report is some sort of Swamp Gas Extension effort, stretching credibility to a very thin line.
I also can agree with Lizzie in the statement that ..."On top of all this we must allow for 60 plus years of UFO hype and misinformation, the likes of which we can hardly imagine."
For me personally this report is part of the misinformation. Because it maybe seems like a serious scientific report, it leaves out and puts in more information than needed.
Also claiming that Condign is just a name per chance, ...come on. :|
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.

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Re: The Condign Report and Terrestrial / Atmospheric Plama

Unread post by lizzie » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:55 am

Faderbaby said:
"Beyond the comprehension of the finite human mind" was said to me numerous times.
That is why I found the Colonel's remarks to be so interesting. He was being very truthful when he said that these "entities" were not known to our six senses.

But the UFO's are not entirely beyond our comprehension. We do manage to see them as ephemeral plasma-type entities. If we had detailed studies of the effects on EM upon the human mind, then I bet we could talk much more intelligently about them.

Just do a google on "the electromagnetic effects on the human mind" and you will see that there is plenty of information and/or disinformation on this subject.

We are conscious electromagnetic entities; so why is it so absurd to suppose that there might be other conscious electromagnetic entities who react to a different EM spectrum than we do?

What if we humans only exist in a 3D world? Then why would it be so absurd to suppose that there might be entities who live in a 4D world? Or what about a "spirit" world inhabited by dematerialized "consciousness entities" who are "trans-dimensional"?

Today we hear people describe the Universe as being "conscious" or "aware." Many people think of themselves as physical "energy units." Well perhaps "ETs" are "dematerialized ("beyond matter") energy units."

I believe that there is a scientific explanation for all this. I think some scientists have a very good idea of what all this is about but cannot say.

My cousin was a USAF pilot. He told me that several of his air force buddies swore that they had seen UFO's. If we think pilots are "nutty" perhaps we should not get on airplanes.

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Re: The Condign Report and Terrestrial / Atmospheric Plama

Unread post by StefanR » Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:36 am

Catch-22 wrote: * "There was only one catch and that was Catch-22, which specified that a concern for one's own safety in the face of dangers that were real and immediate was the process of a rational mind. Orr was crazy and could be grounded. All he had to do was ask; and as soon as he did, he would no longer be crazy and would have to fly more missions. Orr would be crazy to fly more missions and sane if he didn't, but if he was sane he had to fly them. If he flew them he was crazy and didn't have to; but if he didn't want to he was sane and had to. Yossarian was moved very deeply by the absolute simplicity of this clause of Catch-22 and let out a respectful whistle."
"That's some catch, that catch-22," he observed.
"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed.

Chapter 5, pg. 55
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.

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MGmirkin
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Jet Streams Shifting?

Unread post by MGmirkin » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:09 pm

(Report: Jet stream shift is expanding the Earth's tropics and deserts)
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/climate ... pics_x.htm

(Jet Stream Shifting)
http://sciencentral.com/articles/view.p ... =218393120

(Jet Streams Are Shifting And May Alter Paths Of Storms And Hurricanes)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 153558.htm

(Study: Jet Stream Seems to Be Shifting North)
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,351748,00.html

So, is this a normal cyclical thing, or something out of the ordinary? What causes it?

It seems that he northern jet stream(s) may be moving further north and the southern further south... Why does this remind me of Birkeland's terella experiments?

(Chapter VI. On Possible Electric Phenomena in Solar Systems and Nebulae)
http://www.plasma-universe.com/index.ph ... nd_Nebulae

Specifically, the explanation of figure 248...

Maybe I'm just reading too much in. But... If there is a change in either the "discharge tension" (current / voltage) or the magnetic field? Might it not explain BOTH the sunspot absence and the migrating jet streams (I wonder if the plasma bands they found a year or two ago interacting between space weather & Earth weather are also moving)?

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

cigarshaped
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Re: The Condign Report and Terrestrial / Atmospheric Plama

Unread post by cigarshaped » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:01 pm

These reports are always a disappointment for the few of us who actually experienced a sighting. There is no doubt in my mind (and of fellow witnesses) that we saw a solid object, a magnificent silvery cylinder, about 1000ft long. That it was able to sustain its position for over a half hour, over the fields of Wiltshire, England, with no visible means of propulsion poses questions to me about interplanetary/ -stellar or even intergalactic travel. Where else is such an advanced civilisation going to come from? Put together with stories by other observers of small disk-shaped UFOs appearing from inside such a beast makes its nickname 'mother ship' quite apt.

I think it goes to show that plasma could well be involved in such a transport system, making it immune to the effects of space and atmosphere. An intimate understanding of the forces of the universe allows such craft to overcome the Einsteinian limitations that Mainstream believe restrict access to other solar systems.

Just to round this off, one of my sisters and a brother both saw 'saucer' objects during our time in Hampshire. They were much smaller and nippier, but obviously solid.

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