Earth - atmosphere

[scowie]

Since this thread has been brought to life again...

I have just read some earlier posts and people were saying that the accretion disc model does not explain prograde rotation, which in my mind it does (this one one of the few mainstream models I believe does make some sense)...

As I understand it, the accretion disc initially forms into bands of matter surrounding the star, so when a protoplanet forms in one of them it accretes most of it's material from ahead and behind it in it's orbit rather than from further in/away from the sun. In doing so, the material ahead of the protoplanet gets slowed down in it's orbit and hence falls slightly towards the sun, getting pulled in around the inner side of the protoplanet. The matter pulled in from behind gets sped up in it's orbit so it flies away from the sun and gets pulled in around the outside. The result would be prograde rotation.

The speed of a planet's rotation is generally proportional to it's mass, or at least to the mass it initially had before it's further growth from accretion of interstellar matter/solar wind particles. I am sure Jupiter has the fastest spin because it is the most massive planet. Saturn comes second in both regards. Neptune has the third fastest rotation and probably had the third largest mass on initial formation. I reckon it was subsequently overtaken in size/mass by Uranus which grows faster due to having a stronger magnetic field (funnels solar wind ions in at the poles) and maybe because it's closer to the sun. [oh, and before anyone tells me Neptune is the 3rd most massive planet anyway you might wanna read this] I reckon this is also the reason that Earth's and Mars's rotation speeds are so similar — they used to have similar masses but Earth has grown more since it's initial formation, hence the gigantism of past life (weaker gravity) and the splitting of the continents (increasing surface area).

Venus's lack of rotational momentum must be due to tidal forces (or maybe it's Velikovsky-style travels around the solar system )

[jtb]

Hi scowie,
What are you're thoughts on a plane flying from the equator to a pole? Should the plane have to compensate for the decreasing velocities in w-e atmospheric rotation in order to travel in a straight line?

[ZenMonkeyNZ]

The standard gravitational accretion model is deficient without electromagnetic force considerations, as outlined here in this proposed combined model: http://history.nasa.gov/SP-345/contents.htm. Whether accretion is the correct model for planet formation or not is another story . . .

The Coriolis force is a fictitious force, meaning it has no causative agent, except in the relational model of universal gravitational influence on mass. That is, the mass of the universe has an appreciable effect on spinning bodies. Wiki explanations do not go into any detail about the absurdity of absolute space, but do try to claim fictitious forces arise from acceleration of the non-inertial reference frame: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_force. This is basically skirting around the notion of universal mass influence – a typically vague and misleading way of saying the same thing, IMO (similar to the way magnetic reconnection is used as an explanation of double layer discharges).

viscount: I'm still mulling over your electrical resonance idea. The thing that interests me about it is that it would seem to have the capability of explaining the quantization in Bode's law, and I'm at a loss for how that can be explained except in terms of some sort of wavelength that resonates in quantized form. I just don't know how to approach corroborating it. Brant (a.k.a. "upriver") talks about the Sun as an antenna capable of receiving long wavelength energy that is undetectable to our instrumentation, because our antennae are too short. Maybe there's another harmonic frequency in there somewhere, with Mercury at the 4x null point, and other planets likewise on null points?

Cool ideas. Harmonics was, of course, one of the four primary studies in the Quadrivium, so scientists prior to the 20th century were very interested in these kinds of notions. If anyone is interested in the kind of education that would suit today's budding scientists, look at the Trivium and Quadrivium.

[Lloyd]

Wrong Board

ZM said: Whether accretion is the correct model for planet formation or not is another story . . .

Yes, this board is not for discussing non-EU models. Accretion is not an EU model. Electrical accretion would be at least close to EU, but Z-pinch star formation seems to be the true EU model, which I think should be replaced with Electrical accretion.

[jtb]

The Coriolis force is a fictitious force, meaning it has no causative agent, except in the relational model of universal gravitational influence on mass. That is, the mass of the universe has an appreciable effect on spinning bodies. Wiki explanations do not go into any detail about the absurdity of absolute space, but do try to claim fictitious forces arise from acceleration of the non-inertial reference frame: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_force. This is basically skirting around the notion of universal mass influence – a typically vague and misleading way of saying the same thing, IMO (similar to the way magnetic reconnection is used as an explanation of double layer discharges).

Zen, are you saying that fictitious forces, such as the Coriolis force, are a result of the influence of the moving mass of the universe surrounding Earth?

[ZenMonkeyNZ]

Zen, are you saying that fictitious forces, such as the Coriolis force, are a result of the influence of the moving mass of the universe surrounding Earth?

Under relational models, the gravitational influence of the mass of the universe is the cause. Not the moving mass, but rather its relative motion due to the spin of the body on which you experience the force (e.g. the Earth).

In classical mechanics and relativity, there is no fundamental explanation for the fact that inertia and weight are identical. But in relational mechanics this proportionality arises from the demonstration that inertial energy is gravitational in origin.

A basic summary of the central ideas can be found here: http://www.fisica.uniud.it/URDF/mptl14/ ... aertel.pdf

[GaryN]

Astronomers make real-time, 3-D movies of plasma tubes drifting overhead.

By creatively using a radio telescope to see in 3D, astronomers have detected the existence of tubular plasma structures in the inner layers of the magnetosphere surrounding the Earth.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2015-06-astronomer ... a.html#jCp

[allynh]

Wow!, GaryN, that's great. Here's the video and the article. This is major, and the Team needs to look into this.

Cosmic cinema: astronomers make real-time, 3D movies of plasma tubes drifting overhead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymZEOihlIdU

Astronomers make real-time, 3-D movies of plasma tubes drifting overhead
http://phys.org/news/2015-06-astronomer ... a.html#jCp

Astronomers make real-time, 3-D movies of plasma tubes drifting overhead
By creatively using a radio telescope to see in 3D, astronomers have detected the existence of tubular plasma structures in the inner layers of the magnetosphere surrounding the Earth.

"For over 60 years, scientists believed these structures existed but by imaging them for the first time, we've provided visual evidence that they are really there," said Cleo Loi of the ARC Centre of Excellence for All-sky Astrophysics (CAASTRO) and School of Physics at the University of Sydney.

Ms Loi is the lead author on this research, undertaken as part of her award-winning undergraduate thesis and recently published in Geophysical Research Letters. In collaboration with international colleagues, she identified the structures.

"The discovery of the structures is important because they cause unwanted signal distortions that could, as one example, affect our civilian and military satellite-based navigation systems. So we need to understand them," Ms Loi said.

The region of space around the Earth occupied by its magnetic field, called the magnetosphere, is filled with plasma that is created by the atmosphere being ionised by sunlight.

The innermost layer of the magnetosphere is the ionosphere, and above that is the plasmasphere. They are embedded with a variety of strangely shaped plasma structures including, as has now been revealed, the tubes.

"We measured their position to be about 600 kilometres above the ground, in the upper ionosphere, and they appear to be continuing upwards into the plasmasphere. This is around where the neutral atmosphere ends, and we are transitioning to the plasma of outer space," explained Ms Loi.

Using the Murchison Widefield Array (MWA), a radio telescope located in the Western Australian desert, Ms Loi found that she could map large patches of the sky and even exploit the MWA's rapid snapshot capabilities to create a movie - effectively capturing the real-time motions of the plasma.

"We saw a striking pattern in the sky where stripes of high-density plasma neatly alternated with stripes of low-density plasma. This pattern drifted slowly and aligned beautifully with the Earth's magnetic field lines, like aurorae," Ms Loi said.

"We realised we may be onto something big and things got even better when we invented a new way of using the MWA."


The MWA consists of 128 antenna 'tiles' spread over an area roughly three by three kilometres that work together as one instrument - but by separating the signals from tiles in the east from the ones in the west, the astronomers gave the MWA the power to see in 3D.

"This is like turning the telescope into a pair of eyes, and by that we were able to probe the 3D nature of these structures and watch them move around," said Ms Loi.

"We were able to measure the spacing between them, their height above the ground and their steep inclination. This has never been possible before and is a very exciting new technique."

This ability adds yet another accolade to the MWA's name after it had already proven its worth as a powerful precursor instrument to the Square Kilometre Array (SKA), and now the MWA's 3D vision has the potential to provide many more in-depth analyses of the formation of plasma structures.

"It is to Cleo's great credit that she not only discovered this but also convinced the rest of the scientific community. As an undergraduate student with no prior background in this, that is an impressive achievement," said Ms Loi's supervisor Dr Tara Murphy, also of CAASTRO and the School of Physics at the University of Sydney.

"When they first saw the data, many of her senior collaborators thought the results were literally 'too good to be true' and that the observation process had somehow corrupted the findings, but over the next few months, Cleo managed to convince them that they were both real and scientifically interesting."
Explore further: Radio astronomy backed by big data projects

More information: "Real-time imaging of density ducts between the plasmasphere and ionosphere" Geophys. Res. Lett., 42, DOI: 10.1002/2015GL063699.

[MrAmsterdam]

Astronomers make real-time, 3-D movies of plasma tubes drifting overhead.

By creatively using a radio telescope to see in 3D, astronomers have detected the existence of tubular plasma structures in the inner layers of the magnetosphere surrounding the Earth.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2015-06-astronomer ... a.html#jCp

Or read the interesting story behind this observation;

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-te ... hcc9g.html

And so the next questions should be, how does this effect the climate models?

Think of the weather, cloud and storm patterns, jet streams tornadoes and hurricanes; are they caused by the swirling and spiralling " plasma tubes " ?
Is there a connection between earth bound CME's and the strenght and patterns of these plasma tubes?

And the main question remains; is earth's weather caused by the electrical connection between the earth and the sun and planets?

[Melusine]

Astronomers make real-time, 3-D movies of plasma tubes drifting overhead.

By creatively using a radio telescope to see in 3D, astronomers have detected the existence of tubular plasma structures in the inner layers of the magnetosphere surrounding the Earth.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2015-06-astronomer ... a.html#jCp

"We measured their position to be about 600 kilometres above the ground, in the upper ionosphere, and they appear to be continuing upwards into the plasmasphere. This is around where the neutral atmosphere ends, and we are transitioning to the plasma of outer space," explained Ms Loi.

The areas of interest she mentions at this point (related to this neat discovery) are signal distortions that affect civilian and military satellite-based navigation systems, and interferences with the radio signals astronomers receive on earth. Doesn't mention the weather.

And now Ms. Loi will be moving from Sidney to Cambridge to begin her PhD in Astrophysics. One would hope that she gets introduced to the Electrical Universe concepts while her young mind is still brilliant and flexible.

Maybe send her a note and a ticket to EU2015?

[Maol]

Astronomers make real-time, 3-D movies of plasma tubes drifting overhead.

By creatively using a radio telescope to see in 3D, astronomers have detected the existence of tubular plasma structures in the inner layers of the magnetosphere surrounding the Earth.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2015-06-astronomer ... a.html#jCp

Or read the interesting story behind this observation;

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci-te ... hcc9g.html

And so the next questions should be, how does this effect the climate models?

Think of the weather, cloud and storm patterns, jet streams tornadoes and hurricanes; are they caused by the swirling and spiralling " plasma tubes " ?
Is there a connection between earth bound CME's and the strenght and patterns of these plasma tubes?

And the main question remains; is earth's weather caused by the electrical connection between the earth and the sun and planets?

I think this going to lead to recognizing and understanding how solar wind ions enter the atmosphere, such as H and O become H2O and C and O become CO2.

[allynh]

The latest TPOD, Tunnel Vision, dances around the issue of the "plasma Tubes", and demonstrates "Tunnel Vision" on the part of the Team. HA!

The experiment demonstrated that the Earth's ionosphere can be imaged by earth based systems. This is such an astonishingly important event. Like Galileo looking through the first telescope and seeing mountains on the Moon.

This isn't about ancient reports of glowing structures in the sky, it's about having direct access to realtime information about what's happening all around us.

There should be arrays built world wide to image the ionosphere, with greater clarity and resolution. The daily weather report should include images of those plasma tubes and how they tie in to daily weather.

SAFIRE is a great first step, showing plasma in the lab. The next step is showing plasma right above people's heads. If arrays were designed to image the ionosphere only, rather than how MWA is set up to look at deep space as well, the cost is probably less.

The Team needs to look into what is practical today.

The quickest way to get people to accept the Electric Universe is to show them the Electric Atmosphere while they eat breakfast. HA!

Murchison Widefield Array
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murchison_Widefield_Array

The Murchison Widefield Array (MWA) is a joint project between an international consortium of universities to build a low-frequency radio array operating in the frequency range 80–300 MHz. The main scientific goals of the MWA are to detect neutral atomic Hydrogen emission from the cosmological Epoch of Reionization (EoR), to study the sun, the heliosphere, the Earth's ionosphere, and to study radio transient phenomena. The total cost of the project is A$51 million.[1]

The MWA is the first so-called large-N array, fully cross-correlating signals from 128 phased tiles, each of which consist of 16 crossed dipoles arranged in a 4x4 square. The field of view is large by the standard of astronomical instruments, being on the order of 30 degrees across.

The MWA was to be situated at Mileura Station where initial testing had been conducted[2] then moved southwest to Boolardy station in outback Western Australia, at the Murchison Radio-astronomy Observatory (MRO), 800 kilometres north of Perth. This location offers a quiet radio environment and stable climate for observations.[3] The MRO is also the site of CSIRO's Australian Square Kilometre Array Pathfinder[4] (ASKAP) and one of two candidate sites for the Square Kilometre Array (SKA). In addition to the geographic link, the MWA is a technology and science pathfinder for the SKA.

[GaryN]

There should be arrays built world wide to image the ionosphere, with greater clarity and resolution. The daily weather report should include images of those plasma tubes and how they tie in to daily weather.

The 4D Ionosphere was announced in 2008. I played with it, low resolution, but it worked.

Explore Earth’s Ionosphere with Google Earth
http://www.universetoday.com/13985/expl ... gle-earth/
The NASA page tells you how to use it:
Explore the Ionosphere (from the safety of your own home)

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... onosphere/

It don't work no more, though I'm on a Linux box, maybe someone with a Windows or Mac machine can try it to verify. But with ground based and space based observations that are probably much higher in resolution now, a combined model may show just how great an effect the ionosphere has on surface weather, which perhaps they'd rather not make us aware of?

[Melusine]

It don't work no more, though I'm on a Linux box, maybe someone with a Windows or Mac machine can try it to verify. But with ground based and space based observations that are probably much higher in resolution now, a combined model may show just how great an effect the ionosphere has on surface weather, which perhaps they'd rather not make us aware of?

Ha!
I have Google Earth downloaded on my windows machine already but the different links offered to make their cool toy go with it seem broken and don't lead anywhere. Oh well.

[MrAmsterdam]

https://www.differ.nl/node/5440

PDF document https://www.differ.nl/sites/default/fil ... _Final.pdf

Developments in CO2 dissociation using non-equilibrium microwave plasma activation for solar fuels

Title Developments in CO2 dissociation using non-equilibrium microwave plasma activation for solar fuels
Publication Type Conference Proceedings
Year of Publication 2015
Authors Bongers WA, Welzel S, van den Bekerom DCM, Frissen GFWM, van Rooij GJ, Goede APH, Graswinckel MF, Groen PWC, den Harder N, van Heemert B, Minea T, van de Sanden MCM, Leins M, Kopecki J, Schulz A, Walker M
Secondary Title ISPC 2015, 22nd International Symposium on Plasma Chemistry
Date Published 2015/07/05
Conference Location Antwerp, Belgium

Keywords CO2 dissociation, Microwave plasma, non-equilibrium

Abstract Vortex stabilized microwave plasma conversion of CO2 is considered as promising route for energy efficient dissociation towards CO production. Energy and conversion efficiencies are investigated in scans of reactor pressure, gas flow rate and specific power. Deterioration of efficiencies from 39% to 25% are observed at forward vortex plasmas at increasing pressures which is mitigated in reverse vortex configuration.

I wonder if this resembles natural phenomena in the ionosphere. The atmosphere (low pressure gas in the toplayer) is being radiated by the sun. I guess the gasses in plasma state are converted on a daily basis...right?