Electric Volcanoes

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Electric Volcanoes

Unread postby Dotini » Wed May 04, 2011 7:28 am

In the TPOD on volcanic lightning this is said:

"Recently a new theory has been proposed that relies on the water content of magma.

From an electric universe point of view, the Earth is a small charged body moving in a large cell of plasma. Because of this, explanations of all physical phenomena in, on, and near the Earth must take the electrical behavior of plasma into account. The Physics of the Plasma Universe by Anthony Peratt describes magma as a plasma, a medium containing moving charges."


However, after posting the Sakurajima video and stills on another forum, I received this reply:

"Active volcanoes are typically associated with a perturbation in the magnetic field *strangely* due to the lack of any contribution from the geology. That is because magma is above the Curie temperature -- the temperature above which a material cannot hold its ferromagnetism. This is a local effect. This is an effect of the magentic field component derived from the crust. The first order dipole magnetic field is derived from the earth's outer core. Note that changes in the Earth's outer core would almost immediately be expressed in the geomagnetic field, yet it would take of the order of 100 million years for those heat perturbations to convect to the surface to cause volcanism. Therefore, if there were a correlation, on the global scale, one would expect that there would be a 100 million year lag between the phenomena."


Clearly, there is some mystery with respect to volcanic lightning and other related electrical effects such as plasma balls, etc.

The very first thing that ought to be resolved is whether magma can or cannot hold charge due to the Curie temperature. I am looking for solid empirical evidence.

Respectfully submitted,
Dotini
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Re: Electric Volcanoes

Unread postby Sparky » Wed May 04, 2011 8:42 am

Dotini wrote:In the TPOD on volcanic lightning this is said:

"Recently a new theory has been proposed that relies on the water content of magma.

From an electric universe point of view, the Earth is a small charged body moving in a large cell of plasma. Because of this, explanations of all physical phenomena in, on, and near the Earth must take the electrical behavior of plasma into account. The Physics of the Plasma Universe by Anthony Peratt describes magma as a plasma, a medium containing moving charges."


However, after posting the Sakurajima video and stills on another forum, I received this reply:

"Active volcanoes are typically associated with a perturbation in the magnetic field *strangely* due to the lack of any contribution from the geology. That is because magma is above the Curie temperature -- [b]the temperature above which a material cannot hold its ferromagnetism[/b]. This is a local effect. This is an effect of the magentic field component derived from the crust. The first order dipole magnetic field is derived from the earth's outer core. Note that changes in the Earth's outer core would almost immediately be expressed in the geomagnetic field, yet it would take of the order of 100 million years for those heat perturbations to convect to the surface to cause volcanism. Therefore, if there were a correlation, on the global scale, one would expect that there would be a 100 million year lag between the phenomena."


Clearly, there is some mystery with respect to volcanic lightning and other related electrical effects such as plasma balls, etc.

The very first thing that ought to be resolved is whether magma can or cannot hold charge due to the Curie temperature. I am looking for solid empirical evidence.

Respectfully submitted,
Dotini


sorry, no solid empirical evidence, but i would like to point out that plasma has been recorded at temps way above magma.

and currie temp., as far as i can tell. applies to permanent magnets, so would not be a consideration with magma...i think..
maybe, kinda.. :oops:
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Re: Electric Volcanoes

Unread postby webolife » Wed May 04, 2011 9:05 am

Let's clear up the language a bit... Dotini is asking about magma charge...there is no curie temperature restriction for charge, per se. Lava becomes "permanently" magnetized when it cools and the particles align according to the local magnetic field. Once hardened the magnetism [and/or magnetic field] is "permanent" unless it becomes reheated above the curie temp. Some speculation about the magnetic striping at oceanic rift [spreading] zones has led to the unnecessary conclusion that the earth has undergone pole reversals in the past. While this may in fact have occurred, the lava need only be magnetized with respect to the local field, which might be induced from previously magnetized material it is flowing over [or under, or against?]. This locally magnetized material should [IMHO] have a greater influence on the "next" magnetizing layer than the global magnetic field component. This can create a striping effect without the need for a whole-earth magnetic pole reversal. Back to electric volcanoes, there seem to be two questions afoot, if I am not misunderstanding Dotini: Does the earth's magnetic field [and implicitly the atmospheric/solar electric field connecion] induce electrical effects in volcanic eruptions? And/or does the charged magma created a voltage difference with the steam and ash, etc. above the erupting volcano? Am I understanding you right, Steve? What other effects of water [aside from the steam connection mentioned above] might be in play here? Does the voltage of the "exclusion zone" come into the picture? What might be some additional questions built into this?
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Re: Electric Volcanoes

Unread postby Dotini » Wed May 04, 2011 9:46 am

webolife wrote:Back to electric volcanoes, there seem to be two questions afoot, if I am not misunderstanding Dotini: Does the earth's magnetic field [and implicitly the atmospheric/solar electric field connecion] induce electrical effects in volcanic eruptions? And/or does the charged magma created a voltage difference with the steam and ash, etc. above the erupting volcano? Am I understanding you right, Steve? What other effects of water [aside from the steam connection mentioned above] might be in play here? Does the voltage of the "exclusion zone" come into the picture? What might be some additional questions built into this?


Yes! These questions are all important, I think. In addition to that would be any specific effects attributable to the local crust and water table, and telluric currents, if anything solid can be said about them. How could the local magnetic field produce the observed phenomena?

Most respectfully,
Dotini
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Re: Electric Volcanoes

Unread postby substance » Wed May 04, 2011 9:54 am

After reading this Wiki article I don't think geomagnetically induced currents might have anything to do with it, unless of course volcano eruptions with electric displays coincide with solar storms and I think someone would have noticed if this were the case.
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Re: Electric Volcanoes

Unread postby webolife » Wed May 04, 2011 10:19 am

Substance,
"Someone might have noticed..." implies someone was looking. We are looking. Is there a connection?
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Re: Electric Volcanoes

Unread postby substance » Wed May 04, 2011 10:25 am

Well, I guess you are right, people in specific scientific areas tend be pretty oblivious, especially when something requiring an inter-disciplinary approach is concerned but if we are to establish any connection between anything, we need a more thorough approach than simply discussing the matter here. It would be really interesting to see what the collective effort of our community could yield if we start some kind of a project for systematic online research into this specific topic.
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Re: Electric Volcanoes

Unread postby Dotini » Thu May 05, 2011 8:08 am

http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/5/4 ... 044013.pdf

Culled from a google search for "charge separation in magma" is a reasonably solid-looking piece of research into the recent lightning activity in an Icelandic volcano eruption. It includes references to additional papers on the subject of volcanic lightning.

The authors seem to conclude that in this case charge separation occurs in the plume and at the vent. They seem to think that water content of the plume and local atmospheric conditions may affect the quantity of lightning strokes discharged in the plume.

I would hope those interested in this thread would review this paper and possibly check out some of those references cited.

Respectfully submitted,
Dotini
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Volcanoes and electricity

Unread postby da99 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:16 am

The Atlantic magazine has an online gallery from a volcano erupting in Chile. This photo caught my attention:
http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/infocus/puyehue060611/s_p15_15268984.jpg

I thought others might see and explain things my untrained eye overlooked. The entire photo gallery is here: http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2011/06/chiles-puyehue-volcano-erupts/100081/
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Electric Volcanoes

Unread postby chaye_d » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:15 pm

Hi All
http://blogs.publico.es/mesadeluz/4195/ ... an-puyehue

Some awesome photo's of the Chilean volcano Mt Puyehue.

Thanks
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Re: Electric Volcanoes

Unread postby mharratsc » Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:51 am

WOW those were some awesome pics! :o One pic reminded me of a thunderbird in the clouds, and another kind of looked like a golden dragon in the sky!

Thanks for posting those, Chaye! :)
Mike H.

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Re: Electric Volcanoes

Unread postby kiwi » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:44 pm

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Re: Electric Volcanoes

Unread postby kiwi » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:52 pm

Uploaded by MrGlasgowTruther4U on Jul 11, 2011

A story of high strangeness. On June the 10th it was reported that something was happening to clocks on the island of Sicily.

"Sicilians are not normally renowned for their punctuality but something strange is afoot that's making them turn up early for work.

Hundreds of digital clocks on the island are running more than 15 minutes fast and no-one is quite sure why. The phenomenon has left people scratching their heads for weeks and several theories have been put forward involving aliens, poltergeists, volcanic activity on Mount Etna and solar explosions. Armageddonists are pointing to further proof of the imminent end of the world.

The town of Catania lies at the heart of the mystery and two young locals have set up a facebook page calling for those affected to come forward. One of them, Francesco Nicosia, told French online magazine Rue89 "I realised something was wrong when I started getting to work earlier. After some investigation I noticed that I wasn't the only one who was on time, which is quite rare here in Sicily."

This isn't the first time the island has experienced strange goings on linked to electronic devices: several years ago electronic equipment started spontaneously catching fire across the rural countryside, reports Rue89.

Among the most credible explanations is electrical disturbance caused by underwater cables that have been undergoing maintenance, but that hasn't stopped many who think that the whole thing is a conspiracy to punish Sicilians for their tardiness."
http://www.euronews.net/2011/06/10/digi ... lian-town/


Then today the Daily Mail is reporting that the time anomoly was actually caused by, wait for it, an eruption of Mount Etna? How is that even possible?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... loses-ai...

So just what is happening to time on the island? i will let you decide

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Re: Electric Volcanoes

Unread postby Dotini » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:03 pm

Kiwi, the euronews article was very amusing. But the dailymail link did not work for me. However, please allow me to admonish anyone within earshot that the dailymail(UK) is notorious for publishing truly incredible stories.

In a related development, recently I ran across a story about how domestic US clocks and appliances will no longer run on time after certain upcoming revisions to the powergrid. http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-06-pow ... locks.html

All the best,
Steve
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Re: Electric Volcanoes

Unread postby kiwi » Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:07 pm

Cheers Dotini :D .... I think it was best to be put in Elec Geek mom's thread in NIAMI .. I forgot I was over there with playing with Sparky ... maybe Dave or Nick could get rid of it ,... I enjoy your reading posts Dotini ,... thanks
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