Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Earth's sky if Saturn went off orbit to inner solar syst

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun May 11, 2014 8:15 am

Alien Sky. Might as well plug the EU video too, which has a more realistic configuration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7EAlTcZFwY.
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun May 11, 2014 8:48 am

Sparky wrote:
The word alien in "Symbols of An Alien Sky" does not refer to ET intervention. It refers to a view of the heavens that was very different from what we experience today.

Were stars seen during the "Saturn Sun" time? :?


In "Cardona Interview on Saturn Theory" at http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3824#p41654 Cardona said:
... One thing that must be understood about that "alone in space" business is that THAT is what was visible from Earth due (1) to the proto-Saturnian system's having not originally been a member of the present Solar System, with the Sun nowhere yet in sight, and (2) to the invisibility of the stars, the relative dimness of which could not penetrate through the opacity of the encasing plasmaspheric sheath's boundary.


I paraphrased Cardona at http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3824&start=75:
Phase 7: ~10,000 yrs ago:
Saturn's Last Flare-up: [possibly forming Venus]
One final Saturn Flare-up during the Saturn System's entry into the Solar System, which ended the prior Age of Darkness; immediately after the flare-up, the Sun, Venus, Mars and possibly some of Saturn's other smaller moons first became visible [Venus may have been ejected, or birthed, from Saturn during the flare-up; the Sun appeared at first as a small star and no other stars were visible]

Pages from God Star and my questions.
http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3824&start=30#p44929
http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3824&start=30#p46661
339 Some Native American tribes remember when the Sun was first seen to be no bigger than a star and it was behind a mask.
LLOYD: What was the mask?
340 If the Sun appeared as a 3rd or 4th magnitude star, as an example, the Sun would have been 10 lightyears away from Earth. The Sun first appeared after the Age of Darkness.
341 The wavelength of Saturn's plasmasphere changed, ending its opacity, when it touched the Sun's heliosphere. LLOYD: What wavelengths did it have before and after? Or what color? What color or wavelength makes it transparent? If Saturn's plasmasphere became transparent, did the stars become visible at that time?

More Answers from Cardona
http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3824&start=60#p50226
When Each Planet Was First Seen
LLOYD: Here are 8 points. Are these the order in which you think the planets were first seen?
1. Saturn: You've stated that Saturn was the first planet seen, not counting Earth, and it was generally at the celestial north pole from the beginning of the Saturn Age.
REPLY: Correct.
LLOYD: 2. Sun: I think you stated that the Sun was first seen about 10,000 years ago from a great distance. If the Sun was visible for a time, were other stars or planets likely visible then as well?
REPLY: Doubtful, since none of them would have been as close to us as the Sun was then getting to be.
LLOYD: Was the Sun seen before or after Saturn's flare?
REPLY: After.
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby john666 » Mon May 12, 2014 1:55 pm

As I said in a previous post, related to another topic, Cardona and others who analyze the testimony of tribes about the cosmological past of the Earth, make one big mistake, in their analysis.
The mistake that they make, is that they suppose, that the "events", that the natives describe, were observed by the ancestors of the natives, who passed on the knowledge, about these events, to their posterity.
THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE!
That is not possible, because the cosmological event(End of the Golden Age) that created the mountains, by smashing continental plates, one into another,would have exterminated every single human being on the Earth!
The testimony of the natives - if genuine - was probably created in a "supernatural way", and should therefore not be taken at face value - like Cardona and many others do - but as a code that needs to be cracked!
Cardona is either seriously deluded, or is intentionally pushing disinformation, on behalf of the PTB, when he is saying the things, that he is saying.

First of all, it is absolutely impossible that Earth was in the so-called "polar configuration", with Saturn.
It is impossible, because if it would be possible, that would mean, that the charge fields of the magnetic poles, of Earth and Saturn, would have acted, as a "pair of hooks", of sorts.
In another words, they would have have acted as a force of attraction!
But that is clearly impossible, because Miles Mathis has shown that the charge field of a body, acts as a force of repulsion!

Secondly, another reason why Cardona cannot be right, is because he completely ignores the battle between Saturn and Jupiter!
Of all cosmological events, the battle between Saturn and Jupiter, is the most mentioned one.
But even if you would ignore, all the testimony's about that event, how can Cardona ignore "Jupiter as Jupiter" ?
In another words, Jupiter is the biggest planet in our system, with the strongest magnetic field, so wouldn't it be logical to assume that Jupiter had something to do, with the current positions of the Earth and Saturn being the way they are?
Yes, it would be logical to assume that, but Cardona always gets upset when anybody mentions Jupiter, and I ask, why is that?
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue May 13, 2014 8:03 pm

john666: it is absolutely impossible that Earth was in the so-called "polar configuration", with Saturn.

You sound angry or unfriendly. If you modify your attitude, it might seem more worthwhile to reply.
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby moses » Wed May 14, 2014 12:17 am

That is not possible, because the cosmological event(End of the Golden Age) that created the mountains, by smashing continental plates, one into another,would have exterminated every single human being on the Earth!
john666

Well, nearly. Some would surely have survived as there still would have been oxygen and water and maybe even sunlight. Some could survive in caves for a long while. All life would have been exterminated then. A lot of the big creatures were exterminated, but some survived.

The Jupiter issue is a good point. The whole Saturn and Earth theory may be a red herring. However it seems clear that the planets were in different orbits at one stage. This makes it tricky to say what the configuration was like before this. There was a civilization before the cosmological event so there is probably evidence of the past planetary configuration somewhere.

The 666 in your name makes you look like a fire and brimstone type person. Am I getting warm ?
Cheers,
Mo
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby john666 » Wed May 14, 2014 3:17 am

Lloyd wrote:
john666: it is absolutely impossible that Earth was in the so-called "polar configuration", with Saturn.

You sound angry or unfriendly. If you modify your attitude, it might seem more worthwhile to reply.


My anger wasn't directed at you, but at Cardona. In fact my attitude wasn't "anger", but provocation.
I don't think I am the only one, who found Cardona's "neglect", of Jupiter "unsatisfactory". But as of now, I am apparently the only one who has mentioned this on the forum. I would like this to change.
I have no personal beef with Cardona, but my suspicious nature tells me, that a person of his intelligence and knowledge is intentionally neglecting "the battle between Saturn and Jupiter", that is "encoded", in many myths all around the world.
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby john666 » Wed May 14, 2014 4:27 am

moses wrote:That is not possible, because the cosmological event(End of the Golden Age) that created the mountains, by smashing continental plates, one into another,would have exterminated every single human being on the Earth!
john666

Well, nearly. Some would surely have survived as there still would have been oxygen and water and maybe even sunlight. Some could survive in caves for a long while. All life would have been exterminated then. A lot of the big creatures were exterminated, but some survived.

The Jupiter issue is a good point. The whole Saturn and Earth theory may be a red herring. However it seems clear that the planets were in different orbits at one stage. This makes it tricky to say what the configuration was like before this. There was a civilization before the cosmological event so there is probably evidence of the past planetary configuration somewhere.

The 666 in your name makes you look like a fire and brimstone type person. Am I getting warm ?
Cheers,
Mo


It is getting very cold down here... 666 666 666 666 :twisted:

But let's get serious. 8-)

I do believe, in the Saturn theory.
I just don't believe in a polar configuration. I think that the Earth rotated around Saturn, just like present day natural satellites, rotate around it. Also, I do think that during the " The Golden Age", Saturn was a lot closer to the Sun than it is at present.

As for humans surviving "The End Of The Golden Age", I am convinced that you are wrong about that.
You see, the mountain ranges, are the "testimony", to the tremendous force, that acted upon the Earth.
The earthquakes, that were the effect, of continents moving and hitting, one another, had to be at least 10 times stronger(at minimum) than the strongest earthquakes of today.
And these earthquakes had to be - because mountain ranges are everywhere - happening all around the world. In another words, you could not hide from them.
And because they were tremendously strong, and you could not hide from them, no human being could have survived.
And even if the earthquakes wouldn't kill you, The Flood, most certainly would.
You mentioned caves, and people hiding in them, but how could that be?
Namely, the cave system, is a part, of the continental plates, and that means that you could also feel the tremor inside the caves. In fact, the tremor that you would feel in the caves, would have had more quickly killed you, than the tremor on the surface, because the caves are made of harder materials, than the "things", on the surface. Also, there is no way, you could stop the water, from coming into the caves, and drowning everybody in it.

I am convinced, that the "Saturnian humanity"(giants), was completely or almost completely exterminated.
That is, I do think that relatively few of them, could have survived underneath, the continental plates(inner Earth), but the bulk of them couldn't survive.
And that brings us, to the testimony of the natives...
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby moses » Wed May 14, 2014 6:50 am

Well john666, it is clear that you have looked into this issue with verve. We all have somewhat different views on the past. I'm particularly interested whether our ancestors underwent severe trauma with consequent epigenetic changes which we have inherited. Thus I will feel that our ancestors were survivors of the cataclysm.

There may well have been human giants back then, but there was probably all sorts of people just as there is today, but with more variation. It sounds like you have our ancestors coming from another planet or moon. Personally, I think that getting adapted to the Earth's bacteria would have been too difficult.

The native stories of people coming from below may just tell us how people survived - down below in caves. Humanity would have had considerable time to prepare for the cataclysm. Something that animals would not have had, yet elephants and such survived.

Anyhow - we agree that something big happened.
Cheers,
Mo
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby john666 » Wed May 14, 2014 12:58 pm

Thank you moses.

I actually don't believe that our ancestors come "from somewhere else". I think that after the original mankind(giants) was exterminated, a new mankind was created, by the same life force(Earth force), that created the giants.
I say giants, because creationist scientists have discovered that as far as animal and plant life is concerned "everything was bigger", in the time before the Flood. And the reason why everything was bigger, is because everything was better, thanks to superior life conditions(Garden Of Eden).
As far as the memories of the natives are concerned, I think that this memory was imprinted on them, through the medium of Earth water, that itself "experienced" the catastrophe.
Keep in mind, water itself has memory, and it is a living being, even though it has radically different consciousness from us(non- individual consciousness).
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby moses » Wed May 14, 2014 6:22 pm

I say giants, because creationist scientists have discovered that as far as animal and plant life is concerned "everything was bigger", in the time before the Flood. And the reason why everything was bigger, is because everything was better, thanks to superior life conditions(Garden Of Eden). john666
I tend to think that the big creatures and plants were remnants of the dinosaur era. Thus I feel that the Earth was in another configuration of planets back in dinosaur times, and it was this configuration that led to the extra-large creatures. But I do agree that conditions were good before the cataclysm.

As far as the memories of the natives are concerned, I think that this memory was imprinted on them, through the medium of Earth water, that itself "experienced" the catastrophe.
Keep in mind, water itself has memory, and it is a living being, even though it has radically different consciousness from us(non- individual consciousness). john666

Now for water to be alive, then it would have experiencing, just like we have experiencing of light, sound, etc. If you say water has memory because it is alive, then you are associating that memory with experiencing. But experiencing needs no memory if the past persists. This is because experiencing could access anywhere in space or time, because experiencing does not belong to any particular space or time except by choice. That is experiencing chooses to respond to a certain part of our brain nerve impulses now, because if it responded to many places and times all at once then the experiencing produced would be chaotic.

On the other hand all experiencing could be recorded somehow. Just how is the difficult part.

Unfortunately we are getting away from planetary science but such discussions are ok in the new ideas section.
Cheers,
Mo
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed May 14, 2014 7:12 pm

john666 wrote: my attitude wasn't "anger", but provocation. I don't think I am the only one, who found Cardona's "neglect", of Jupiter "unsatisfactory". But as of now, I am apparently the only one who has mentioned this on the forum. I would like this to change. I have no personal beef with Cardona, but my suspicious nature tells me, that a person of his intelligence and knowledge is intentionally neglecting "the battle between Saturn and Jupiter", that is "encoded", in many myths all around the world.

What have you read of Cardona? I have only his first book, God Star, plus Kronos magazine, Thoth newsletter and some Aeon magazine issues, plus his interview. I posted links at http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4932&start=225#p95579.

In Kronos magazine he discussed the possible encounter between Jupiter and Saturn, but later I think he decided that the myths that talked about that were more recent, from the time of the Greeks and Romans I think, and may not be mentioned in the earliest myths that date from the time of the cataclysms. Talbott shows Jupiter in his Alien Sky video positioned behind Saturn, where it would have been largely unseen. I believe Cardona just hasn't been able to find much out about Jupiter in the ancient myths.

No Orbits. I don't know how much research you've done, but it's best to follow those who do the most thorough research and document it, as he does. Since the ancients described Saturn as standing still in the middle of the sky, it's reasonable to consider that possibility first. And in doing so Cardona found that there are cases where objects in space line up without orbiting. SL9 was one such case and Herbig-Haro objects are another. SL9 was a comet that broke into pieces around 1992 and the pieces followed each other in a straight line until they ran into Jupiter in 1994. Cardona theorizes that the Saturn system traveled between star systems like a comet with the planets and moons trailing behind, like the pieces of SL9 did. Saturn continued to travel in that fashion until it reached a point near the present asteroid belt, where the Saturn system broke up.

If you have any of his more recent books, did you not find anything interesting in them? My guess is that he has continued to nail down the general concepts that he began describing in God Star.
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby john666 » Thu May 15, 2014 3:36 am

moses wrote:As far as the memories of the natives are concerned, I think that this memory was imprinted on them, through the medium of Earth water, that itself "experienced" the catastrophe.
Keep in mind, water itself has memory, and it is a living being, even though it has radically different consciousness from us(non- individual consciousness). john666

Now for water to be alive, then it would have experiencing, just like we have experiencing of light, sound, etc. If you say water has memory because it is alive, then you are associating that memory with experiencing. But experiencing needs no memory if the past persists. This is because experiencing could access anywhere in space or time, because experiencing does not belong to any particular space or time except by choice. That is experiencing chooses to respond to a certain part of our brain nerve impulses now, because if it responded to many places and times all at once then the experiencing produced would be chaotic.

On the other hand all experiencing could be recorded somehow. Just how is the difficult part.

Unfortunately we are getting away from planetary science but such discussions are ok in the new ideas section.
Cheers,
Mo


You are right, we are getting away from planetary science, but here is a link, connected with my claim that the water has memory; http://themindunleashed.org/2013/07/new-research-supports-theory-that-water.html
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby john666 » Thu May 15, 2014 4:11 am

Lloyd wrote:
john666 wrote: my attitude wasn't "anger", but provocation. I don't think I am the only one, who found Cardona's "neglect", of Jupiter "unsatisfactory". But as of now, I am apparently the only one who has mentioned this on the forum. I would like this to change. I have no personal beef with Cardona, but my suspicious nature tells me, that a person of his intelligence and knowledge is intentionally neglecting "the battle between Saturn and Jupiter", that is "encoded", in many myths all around the world.

What have you read of Cardona? I have only his first book, God Star, plus Kronos magazine, Thoth newsletter and some Aeon magazine issues, plus his interview. I posted links at http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4932&start=225#p95579.

In Kronos magazine he discussed the possible encounter between Jupiter and Saturn, but later I think he decided that the myths that talked about that were more recent, from the time of the Greeks and Romans I think, and may not be mentioned in the earliest myths that date from the time of the cataclysms. Talbott shows Jupiter in his Alien Sky video positioned behind Saturn, where it would have been largely unseen. I believe Cardona just hasn't been able to find much out about Jupiter in the ancient myths.

No Orbits. I don't know how much research you've done, but it's best to follow those who do the most thorough research and document it, as he does. Since the ancients described Saturn as standing still in the middle of the sky, it's reasonable to consider that possibility first. And in doing so Cardona found that there are cases where objects in space line up without orbiting. SL9 was one such case and Herbig-Haro objects are another. SL9 was a comet that broke into pieces around 1992 and the pieces followed each other in a straight line until they ran into Jupiter in 1994. Cardona theorizes that the Saturn system traveled between star systems like a comet with the planets and moons trailing behind, like the pieces of SL9 did. Saturn continued to travel in that fashion until it reached a point near the present asteroid belt, where the Saturn system broke up.

If you have any of his more recent books, did you not find anything interesting in them? My guess is that he has continued to nail down the general concepts that he began describing in God Star.


I haven't read any of his books, but I have read everything I could find on the net, including your interview with him.
I don't believe in the testimony of the natives, because I don't believe that anyone could have survived the catastrophe that caused the mountains to form.
If there is some truth in their testimony, it has to decoded, and not taken at face value like Cardona and many others do. I explained in a previous post, why I think this way.
As for Herbig-Haro objects, they are nothing more than patches of nebulosity, they in no way prove polar configuration.
As for pieces of SL9, it is wrong to make analogy between it, and the Saturnian system. It is wrong because, by definition, the Saturnian system, was whole, in the same sense that the pieces of SL9 are not.
I explained in a previous post, why I think that from a physical point of view, polar configuration is not possible.
I explained it, using the theory of charge by MM.
I have seen Lloyd, that you understand a lot about MM theories, so maybe you can give me your opinion about whether I used MM theory about charge in a good way or in a bad way.
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby john666 » Mon May 19, 2014 1:19 pm

john666 wrote:I haven't read any of his books, but I have read everything I could find on the net, including your interview with him.
I don't believe in the testimony of the natives, because I don't believe that anyone could have survived the catastrophe that caused the mountains to form.
If there is some truth in their testimony, it has to decoded, and not taken at face value like Cardona and many others do. I explained in a previous post, why I think this way.
As for Herbig-Haro objects, they are nothing more than patches of nebulosity, they in no way prove polar configuration.
As for pieces of SL9, it is wrong to make analogy between it, and the Saturnian system. It is wrong because, by definition, the Saturnian system, was whole, in the same sense that the pieces of SL9 are not.
I explained in a previous post, why I think that from a physical point of view, polar configuration is not possible.
I explained it, using the theory of charge by MM.
I have seen Lloyd, that you understand a lot about MM theories, so maybe you can give me your opinion about whether I used MM theory about charge in a good way or in a bad way.


Let me clarify my own views, a little bit.
I think that the testimony of the natives, is based on memories that are not integral, but are composite.
In another words, a particular visual memory, is actually not what the natives, think it is, but is actually a composite structure. A composite structure, that is made of several actual memories intertwining with each other.
That is why I said, that in studying the testimony of the natives, one needs to have a code, of sorts.
The reason why I am absolutely certain, that these memories are not integral, is because of one simple fact.
The ancestors of the natives, that allegedly witnessed the catastrophe, couldn't have survived the catastrophe!
Namely, if during the catastrophe, continental plates were smashing into each other with tremendous force(and they did), than what would prevent humans, from smashing into continental plates!?
Obviously nothing.
You can not use the argument, that the people were hiding in the caves, because the caves are a part of the cont. plates!
And yet, the natives claim the impossible.
They claim that their ancestors survived.
That is why we can not, take their testimony at face value.
The composite memories, were imprinted on them, by a "higher force".

As far the polar configuration is concerned, I actually do believe that the Earth was - together with Saturn - in such configuration, but only, during the catastrophe!
Namely, when Saturn and Jupiter were fighting with each other, at certain point they came so close one to another that the charge field of Jupiter, separated, Earth from it's near-equatorial orbit around Saturn, and pushed it below, one of Saturn's poles!
But only for a brief time.
That is the only way, in which the "polar configuration", can make any sense at all.
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Re: Earth Was a Moon of Saturn

Unread postby Bomb20 » Tue May 20, 2014 12:14 am

If I read that people write that "creationist scientists" (the term is a contradiction in itself) have discovered something or "a higher force did imprint composite memories on natives" then I think it is better for you to go to a creationist forum! This is not the place for unscientific "The Earth is only 6000 years young!"-claims and their propagandists.

I doubt Cadornas claims concerning the continental plates. The natives observed with their own eyes - and survived!
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