Electric Jupiter

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Jupiter finally goes "electric"!

Unread postby solrey » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:15 am

Still going strong, albeit a bit faded.

A little more than a month after a mystery-object crashed into Jupiter, the debris cloud is still visible in backyard telescopes. Amateur astronomer Brian Combs of Buena Vista, Georgia, took this picture on August 19th:


Image

When Australian astrophotographer Anthony Wesley discovered the debris cloud on July 19th, it was about the size of many other small storms dotting Jupiter's upper atmosphere. Since then, the compact black mark has expanded into an enormous swirl rivaling the girth of the Great Red Spot itself. Unfortunately, as the cloud has expanded it has also faded, and its pale markings could soon disappear altogether. Continued monitoring is encouraged.


Where are those multi-spectral images they said were going to be taken? Are we just waiting for processing or is there something they can't figure out?
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Jupiter impact or EDM scarring?

Unread postby Omni » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:30 pm

Hi all, new to the forum here but a reader for years now.

I searched a bit and saw no posts reguarding the July "impact" of Jupiter in which the scar was found by an amatuer astronomer. Sorry if this is a duplicate post.

http://jupiter.samba.org/

Excuse my ignorance but shouldn't they have tracked any incoming objects? Wouldn't it have been a big deal like Shoemaker-levy? If this scar just showed up with no object in route is it evidence for EDM? Notice the last caption speaks of debris in the atmosphere. I read alot of news amd never heard of this till now. Maybe I missed it but has this just been released or something?
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Re: Jupiter impact or EDM scarring?

Unread postby nick c » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:37 am

hi Omni,
Welcome to the forum.
Yes that story was noticed. You can read some brief comments on page 4 of the "Jupiter finally goes electric!" thread [url2=http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=477&start=45]here[/url2]. Not too much speculation:
solrey wrote:OK. So now three distinct spots have developed after the original, single spot, morphed into two seperate lobes, which have recently morphed into three, or a "trifurcation".
I know Jupiter's winds are strong, and both chaotic and organized, likely driven by electromagnetic forces, but this spot thing just seems to maintain a certain organization, and even growth, that doesn't appear to be driven by winds alone, if at all.

The story just faded away... along with the spot, and not much follow up information was available. The difference between this and the Shoemaker/Levy 9 incident is that there was no object observed to penetrate into Jupiter's atmosphere. The mark was observed and, after the fact, the assumption was made that there was an impact- as the spot had some similarities to the one observed to form after SL9 collided with Jupiter. Jupiter has a dynamic electrically driven atmosphere, spots appear and disappear, the only (semi?) permanent feature being the Great Red Spot.
Whether or not this spot is the result of an impact or "weather" in Jupiter's atmosphere is open to speculation.

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Re: Jupiter impact or EDM scarring?

Unread postby Lloyd » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:01 am

* I believe Thornhill has suggested that the Great Red Spot is probably caused by a mountain or something on Jupiter's solid surface, since it's a permanent disturbance. I think he has also suggested that the surfaces of the gas giants are rocky, like the material from which they came from a stellar body. Additionally, it seems he suggests that stellar surfaces are magmatic.
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Jupiter Loses a Stripe

Unread postby junglelord » Thu May 13, 2010 8:47 am

Here is an interesting find.
Jupiter has lost one of its iconic red stripes and scientists are baffled as to why.
The largest planet in our solar system is usually dominated by two dark bands in its atmosphere, with one in the northern hemisphere and one in the southern hemisphere.

However, the most recent images taken by amateur astronomers have revealed the lower stripe known as the Southern Equatorial Belt has disappeared leaving the southern half of the planet looking unusually bare.

The band was present in at the end of last year before Jupiter ducked behind the Sun on its orbit. However, when it emerged three months later the belt had disappeared.

Journalist and amateur astronomer Bob King, also known as Astro_Bob, was one of the first to note the strange phenomenon.

He said: 'Jupiter with only one belt is almost like seeing Saturn when its rings are edge-on and invisible for a time - it just doesn't look right.'

It is not the first time this unusual phenomenon has been noticed. Jupiter loses or regains one of its belts every ten of 15 years, although exactly why this happens is a mystery.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... a-why.html


I know there is an electrical connection, I am just not sure what it is...but I believe it is related to current density and possibly related to harmonic coupling.
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Re: Jupiter Loses a Stripe

Unread postby ElecGeekMom » Thu May 13, 2010 10:08 am

One of the commenters on that page you linked to voiced my thoughts: the second photo looks upside down when compared to the first photo.

A cycle of 10 to 15 years is roughly analogous to the sunspot cycle, isn't it? Perhaps Jupiter has pole shifts similar to the sun?

When was the last time the stripe disappeared? Around 1997-ish, give or take a couple of years? Anybody know?

And how about that "radiar" comment? Is that concept compatible with the EU?
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Re: Jupiter Loses a Stripe

Unread postby redeye » Thu May 13, 2010 1:41 pm

A cycle of 10 to 15 years is roughly analogous to the sunspot cycle, isn't it? Perhaps Jupiter has pole shifts similar to the sun?


Jupiter's magnetic field has the opposite orientation of the Sun and Earth. It's South pole is in the Northern hemisphere and vice versa. It would be interesting to see if this has changed?

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Re: Jupiter Loses a Stripe

Unread postby junglelord » Thu May 13, 2010 1:58 pm

A magnetic pole shift would allow my harmonic coupling varience thought.
Thanks.
Good thinking.
Wonder what Wal says about this?
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
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Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
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Re: Jupiter Loses a Stripe

Unread postby redeye » Thu May 13, 2010 3:15 pm

What could cause a magnetic pole reversal? Surely if one planet's magnetosphere changed orientation they all would???

Jupiter's magnetic field has the opposite orientation of the Sun and Earth.


I've been hunting for a verification of this and I can't find anything. I don't know if it is still considered to be true???

Hey Junglelord, I found this on wiki:

It has been suggested that the radio emissions from Jupiter's magnetosphere may have been first heard by Nikola Tesla in 1899, when he claimed to have possibly received radio signals from Martians. Mars and Jupiter were located close in the sky at the time


I thought of you.

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Re: Jupiter Loses a Stripe

Unread postby remelic » Thu May 13, 2010 3:38 pm

As far as I know, Uranus and Venus are the only planets that have odd magnetic poles.
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Re: Jupiter Loses a Stripe

Unread postby StefanR » Thu May 13, 2010 4:38 pm

But recent images taken by amateur astronomers show that the southern band – called the south equatorial belt – has disappeared.
The band was present at the end of 2009, right before Jupiter moved too close to the sun in the sky to be observed from Earth. When the planet emerged from the sun's glare again in early April, its south equatorial belt was nowhere to be seen.
This is not the first time the south equatorial belt has disappeared. It was absent in 1973 when NASA's Pioneer 10 spacecraft took the first closeup images of the planet and also temporarily vanished in the early 1990s.
According to this theory, the south equatorial belt disappears when whitish clouds form on top of it, blocking our view of the darker clouds. But it is not clear what causes these whitish clouds to form in the south equatorial belt at some times and not others, Orton says.
The disappearance of the belt comes at a time of widespread – but mysterious – change on Jupiter, which has seen changes to the colour of other bands and spots in its atmosphere. "There has been a lot going on," Orton says.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18889-jupiter-loses-a-stripe.html

Hubble Catches Jupiter Changing Its Stripes

06.28.07

Massive Jupiter is undergoing dramatic atmospheric changes that have never been seen before with the keen "eye" of NASA's Hubble Space Telescope.

Jupiter's turbulent clouds are always changing as they encounter atmospheric disturbances while sweeping around the planet at hundreds of miles per hour. But these Hubble images reveal a rapid transformation in the shape and color of Jupiter's clouds near the equator, marking an entire face of the globe.

The planet is wrapped in bands of yellows, browns, and whites. These bands are produced by air flowing in different directions at various latitudes. Lighter-hued areas where the atmosphere rises are called zones. Darker regions where air falls are called belts. When these opposing flows interact, storms and turbulence appear.

Between March 25 and June 5, Hubble's Wide Field and Planetary Camera 2 captured entire bands of clouds changing color. Zones have darkened into belts and belts have lightened and transformed into zones. Cloud features have rapidly altered in shape and size.
.......
These global upheavals have been seen before, but not with Hubble's sharp resolution. Astronomers using ground-based telescopes first spied drastic atmospheric transformation in the 1980s. Another major disturbance was seen in the early 1990s, after Hubble was launched into space. The telescope, however, did not have the resolution to view the upheaval in fine detail. These higher-quality Hubble images may help astronomers understand how such global upheavals develop on Jupiter.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/news/jupiter_stripes.html
However, pictures from the Cassini spacecraft show that individual storm cells of upwelling bright-white clouds, too small to see from Earth, pop up almost without exception in the dark belts. Earlier spacecraft had hinted so, but not with the overwhelming evidence provided by the new images of 43 different storms.
"We have a clear picture emerging that the belts must be the areas of net-rising atmospheric motion on Jupiter, with the implication that the net motion in the zones has to be sinking," said Dr. Tony Del Genio, an atmospheric scientist at NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies, New York. "It's the opposite of expectations for the past 50 years," he said.

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=763

It is not the first time this unusual phenomenon has been noticed. Jupiter loses or regains one of its belts every ten of 15 years, although exactly why this happens is a mystery.
.......
'It was obvious last year that it was fading. It was closely observed by anyone watching Jupiter,' he told The Planetary Society.
'There was a big rush on to find out what had changed once it came back into view.'
Mr Wesley said while it was a mystery as to what had caused the belt to fade, the most likely explanation was that it was linked to storm activity that preceded the change.
'The question now is when will the South Equatorial belt erupt back into activity and reappear?' Mr Wesley said.

http://refreshingnews9.blogspot.com/2010/05/jupiter-loses-one-of-its-stripes-and.html
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Re: Jupiter Loses a Stripe

Unread postby ETSubmariner » Thu May 13, 2010 5:47 pm

I just watched a TV show called Traveler's Guide to Planets that spotlighted Jupiter and its 60+ moons. Of course, there were discussions about gravity being the cause of its creation, how its stripes were born, etc. There were two significant things of interest to me on the show. A Dr. Bolton said they did not understand how gas planets form since gravity is supposed to be the cause of such things, and then stated that all of the theories about planet formation had "gone out the window."

The second thing is that shortly after a brief blurb of extra-solar planets, just seconds before the commercial, they put up a full image of the Earth sitting in front of Saturn! My jaw dropped to see such a beautiful and welcome sight in all our previous historical glory (minus Mars and Venus of course). I wonder who slipped that in!~ Not that I expected it was intentional, but it was the one appropriate thing of the whole show besides Dr. Bolton's statement. Now if only he had meant it.
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Re: Jupiter Loses a Stripe

Unread postby Siggy_G » Fri May 14, 2010 1:17 am

Apparently a lot has been happening/altered on Jupiter the last years. The large red spot shrinking, dots disappearing etc. Does the activity on Jupiter anyhow correlate with the activity on the Sun (cycles)? Any cyclical links that can be documented?

Also, would be interesting to see where the red spot is located when back in view...

PS: observations of Jupiter being hit by a comet a few months ago:

http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagegallery/igviewer.php?gid=389
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Re: Jupiter Loses a Stripe

Unread postby remelic » Fri May 14, 2010 6:45 am

The Sun's input energy has dropped so I would imagine that this effects all other planets since they are all connected to the sun and depend on it. So the energy reaching Jupiter from the sun is weaker then normal. (Sun having input energy is guesswork but based on my research the Sun gets energy from an external source...the galaxy).
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Re: Jupiter Loses a Stripe

Unread postby Siggy_G » Fri May 14, 2010 7:16 am

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sun_output_030320.html (from 2003)

There's is an increasing trend in addition to the cycle. Not very significant in view of percentage, but maybe the smallest variants is significant to atmospheres, since planets and their atmospheres are animated systems trying to maintain an equilibrium? Also, it is stated in others posts in this forum that there seems to be temperature increase on several planets across the solar system the last years. This could be an overall heat up during the solar maximum combined with years of inertia in the atmospheric systems - but I can't verify this.

Solar max has also been tied to a 2 percent increase in clouds over much of the United States.


Interesting, but also a little conflicting compared to the view that cosmic rays may cause cloud formations, whereas solar plasma/wind shields these, and would cause a decrease of cloud formation. We need to see better measurements on 1) the radiant energy from the sun, versus 2) plasma output (solar wind). They may not be exactly proportional and may affect planets differently.

remelic wrote:
(Sun having input energy is guesswork but based on my research the Sun gets energy from an external source...the galaxy).


This is very much in line with the EU model. In situ measurements around the Sun's poles would be vital. I think there was a probe that gathered related data, which showed an increase of electric currents (will need to find the thread/post on this forum).
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