Electric Saturn

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Most Undeniable Evidence of the Electric Universe to Dat

Unread postby kiwi » Thu Oct 16, 2014 8:55 pm

Im certainly not envious of the younger generation of Astro-Scientists .... watching the EM wonders of nature unfold before them but bound to the Gravity-centric doctrine ... conflict much? :geek:

Cheers Rossim :D
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Re: Most Undeniable Evidence of the Electric Universe to Dat

Unread postby nick c » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:42 am

This is important.
Mainstream defenders have historically attacked the EU position that celestial objects are charged bodies moving in a plasma environment.
This article is a giant step by mainstream toward acknowledgement of that position, though they will no doubt say "we knew that along."
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Re: Most Undeniable Evidence of the Electric Universe to Dat

Unread postby Frantic » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:54 am

Makes me wonder if we were actually looking for these things instead of accidentally wandering into them and being baffled we could learn so much more. Hopefully the future will hold more and more clues to the physics of our space environment.

Amazing that they have the data now, -200 V of charge across 2,000 km if I understand that correctly.

Thanks for the post.
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NASA admits moon-satelite discharge occurred

Unread postby Maustin » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:13 pm

http://www.space.com/27466-cassini-spac ... erion.html

Excerpt:
A spacecraft exploring the Saturn system was zapped by static electricity sent out by one of the ringed wonder's many moons in 2005, a new study suggests. In fact, scientists have found that the Cassini spacecraft was "briefly bathed in a beam of electrons" coming from the moon Hyperion's surface, NASA officials said.
...
"It was rather like Cassini receiving a 200-volt electric shock from Hyperion, even though they were over 2,000 kilometers [1,200 miles] apart at the time," Tom Nordheim, a doctoral candidate at Mullard Space Science Laboratory (MSSL), University College London, said of the new finding in a statement.


This occurred in 2005! They've been sitting on this for nine years!
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Re: NASA admits moon-satelite discharge occurred

Unread postby kiwi » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:36 pm

Posted over here mate :arrow: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15343
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Re: Most Undeniable Evidence of the Electric Universe to Dat

Unread postby viscount aero » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:40 pm

Rossim wrote:http://sci.esa.int/cassini-huygens/54777-cassini-caught-in-hyperions-electron-beam/

"CASSINI CAUGHT IN HYPERION'S ELECTRON BEAM"

Some highlights:

The new analysis of the data shows that Cassini was magnetically connected to the surface of Hyperion for a brief period, which enabled it to be bathed in a beam of electrons coming from the moon's surface.


The Cassini data show that a similar process can take place on Hyperion. Due to its interaction with solar UV light and charged particles from Saturn's magnetosphere, the moon's surface may acquire a net electric charge. This is precisely what was found by Cassini's instruments.


Analysis of the CAPS-ELS data indicates that it remotely detected a strongly negative surface potential (-200 volts) on Hyperion, consistent with the predicted electrostatic charge in regions near the moon's terminator – the day-night boundary.


"The large difference in potential between the surface and the spacecraft resulted in a flow of electrons being accelerated from Hyperion toward Cassini," said Tom Nordheim. "It was rather like Cassini receiving a 200 volt electric shock from Hyperion, even though they were over 2000 km apart at the time."


And the beginning of that connect-the-dots moment:

"Our observations show that this is also an important effect at outer planet moons and that we need to take this into account when studying how these moons interact with their environment."


That's quite remarkable.

That they even said "the moon's surface may acquire a net electric charge" is jaw-dropping. It will either end up as a footnote (as it "only" affected a spacecraft) or will create a domino effect to rethinking Io and Enceladus and their activity particularly.

That they concede to Hyperion being negatively charged alludes to comets even if they probably don't connect those dots yet. I can't wait until they attempt to land on 67P.
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Re: Most Undeniable Evidence of the Electric Universe to Dat

Unread postby Maustin » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:04 am

I don't actually expect a discharge between Philae and 67P, since the lander's approach has been slow so far, and I expect there has been enough time for charge equalization already. High-speed approaches between differing charge potentials seems to trigger discharge. I fully expect something extraordinary today or tomorrow between Siding Spring and Mars.
Philae, if I were a betting man, will not experience a lightning bolt, but simply smash into a brick wall. 67P is solid rock and no part of the lander was designed for a hard surface. The only saving grace may be that the comet's gravitational field is so relatively tiny it won't contribute much to the lander's death.

I'm stunned the press release about a 200 volt electrical exchange comes NINE YEARS after the event occurred.
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Re: NASA admits moon-satelite discharge occurred

Unread postby Maustin » Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:05 am

Nuts, was so excited to share! Let's keep the other thread, as it has momentum already. Cheers.
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Re: Most Undeniable Evidence of the Electric Universe to Dat

Unread postby StefanR » Sat Oct 18, 2014 7:01 am

viscount aero wrote:That they concede to Hyperion being negatively charged alludes to comets even if they probably don't connect those dots yet. I can't wait until they attempt to land on 67P.


But it seems to me that they do...:
The first confirmed detection of surface charging on an object in the outer Solar System has wide-ranging implications. This fundamental process is predicted to occur on many different bodies, including asteroids, moons and the surface of comets.

Scientists have previously suggested that surface features observed on the asteroid Eros and several Saturnian moons are due to the motion of charged dust across their surfaces. On small objects with low gravity, dust grains might even be able to overcome the force of gravity and escape into space.

In terms of human exploration of planetary objects without atmospheres, such as the Moon, strong electric charging effects may also prove to be a hazard to astronauts, who might be subjected to strong electrostatic discharges.
http://sci.esa.int/cassini-huygens/54777-cassini-caught-in-hyperions-electron-beam/

The sad thing is that charged dust being influenced by electric and magnetic fields, is more generaly or perhaps properly called dusty plasma.
And how all of a sudden this is of danger for astronauts is a mystery to me, as with the Apollo missions it seems they were entirely save the dust didn't even had the tendensy to cling to the landers or the astronauts suits, and they were happy enough to go in and out of the landers without endangering the electrical equipment inside. Right?

Image

And judging from this pic in the article it seems the electrons were following the magnetic field lines? Does this observation have impact on the understanding of the debye lenght in space plasma?

By the way here is a link to the pdf of the more in depth article.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2014GL061127/pdf
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Re: Most Undeniable Evidence of the Electric Universe to Dat

Unread postby viscount aero » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:53 am

StefanR wrote:
viscount aero wrote:That they concede to Hyperion being negatively charged alludes to comets even if they probably don't connect those dots yet. I can't wait until they attempt to land on 67P.


But it seems to me that they do...:
The first confirmed detection of surface charging on an object in the outer Solar System has wide-ranging implications. This fundamental process is predicted to occur on many different bodies, including asteroids, moons and the surface of comets.


Yes. I should have clarified a bit more. They haven't connected the dots with comets insofar as how they probably work. They've already admitted to the Moon's water ice having probably been created by the solar wind, going even as far to explain the process of the creation of hydroxyls (OH-)--exactly as explained in the Thunderbolts documentary about the electric comet. And even with the news about Hyperion (which is actually 7 year-old data) they fail to make the leap to comets. But perhaps in time they will. I think when they try to land the probe onto comet 67P something is going to flip them out :lol: Something is going to happen that will "baffle" them.
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Re: Most Undeniable Evidence of the Electric Universe to Dat

Unread postby viscount aero » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:07 am

StefanR wrote:
The sad thing is that charged dust being influenced by electric and magnetic fields, is more generaly or perhaps properly called dusty plasma.
And how all of a sudden this is of danger for astronauts is a mystery to me, as with the Apollo missions it seems they were entirely save the dust didn't even had the tendensy to cling to the landers or the astronauts suits, and they were happy enough to go in and out of the landers without endangering the electrical equipment inside. Right?


I agree ;) Many science press releases and their reasoning is a mystery to me.
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Re: Most Undeniable Evidence of the Electric Universe to Dat

Unread postby StefanR » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:09 am

viscount aero wrote:Yes. I should have clarified a bit more. They haven't connected the dots with comets insofar as how they probably work. They've already admitted to the Moon's water ice having probably been created by the solar wind, going even as far to explain the process of the creation of hydroxyls (OH-)--exactly as explained in the Thunderbolts documentary about the electric comet. And even with the news about Hyperion (which is actually 7 year-old data) they fail to make the leap to comets. But perhaps in time they will. I think when they try to land the probe onto comet 67P something is going to flip them out :lol: Something is going to happen that will "baffle" them.


In that sense, I agree, and as can be seen in the Mercury-thread, with the latest posts by Frantic and Seasmith, it seems that even with water there, they are still stuck on some sort of seeding of water way way into the past. They even make allusions to subsurface ices for old deposits and late impact depositions to try to explain the seemingly recent depositions. :lol: Let alone the ubiquitous impact gardening.
But actually that whole article is all over the place. Typical. :roll:

In the lower-latitude craters, the fact that the low-reflectance deposits
display sharp boundaries that extend to the edges of the shadowed and
radar-bright regions (Fig. 4) contrasts with the 3 km offset of such boundaries
observed in Prokofiev and indicates that lateral mixing has not moved
the boundary of low-reflectance material inward. This observation implies
that the low-reflectance deposits formed geologically recently or as part
of an ongoing process.
However, if impact gardening of a low-reflectance
deposit tens of centimeters thick exposed or thermally disturbed underlying
water ice, any water ice exposed at the surface would quickly sublimate
(1 m in 106 yr at 130 K; 1 m in 103 yr at 150 K; Vasavada et al.,
1999; Paige et al., 2013). A stable configuration would rapidly be restored,
perhaps resulting in the formation of new lag deposits of low-reflectance
material. Thus, by continually disturbing and reforming the edges of the
low-reflectance deposits, the impact gardening process potentially could
keep the boundaries sharp and well matched to those of the radar-bright
and permanently shadowed regions.
The total amount of ice at Mercury’s poles is substantial, with estimates
of ~1016–1018 g (Moses et al., 1999; Lawrence et al., 2013). The
upper estimate is comparable to the water volume of Lake Ontario (North
America; ~1.64 × 1018 g) and consistent with delivery by external sources
to Mercury and subsequent thermal stability over billions of years (Moses
et al., 1999; Paige et al., 2013). However, in addition to lateral mixing,
other processes have been suggested that would disrupt exposed volatile
deposits on Mercury within geologically short time scales. Models of
vertical mixing by impact gardening (Crider and Killen, 2005) indicate
that ice would be buried at a rate of 4 × 10–9 m/yr; destruction by Lyman
alpha photodissociation may limit the lifetime of exposed ice (Morgan and
Shemansky, 1991); and organic synthesis within ice bombarded by galactic
cosmic rays, such as in Prokofiev, may darken the ice on time scales of tens
of millions of years (Crites et al., 2013). Moreover, although laser reflectance
measurements at 1064 nm have yielded higher reflectance values
for permanently shadowed regions at the lunar poles, indicative of modest
amounts of water frost or a reduction in the effectiveness of space weathering
(Lucey et al., 2014), visible-wavelength imaging of permanently shadowed
craters on the Moon (Haruyama et al., 2008; Speyerer and Robinson,
2013) has not revealed surfaces with anomalously high or low reflectance
similar to those seen in WAC broadband images of Mercury. One explanation
for differences between the Moon and Mercury could be that the
volatile polar deposits on Mercury were recently emplaced. If Mercury’s
currently substantial polar volatile inventory is the product of the most
recent portion of a longer process, then a considerable mass of volatiles
may have been delivered to the inner Solar System throughout its history.

LINK
Now what could that ongoing process actually be...? ;)

As for comet 67P, I'm still waiting to see those vents where that water is spouting from.... ;)
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.
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Re: NASA admits moon-satelite discharge occurred

Unread postby StefanR » Sat Oct 18, 2014 11:23 am

Let me just post this for reference:

Satellites, Spacecraft, and Electric Fields
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=955
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.
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Re: Most Undeniable Evidence of the Electric Universe to Dat

Unread postby viscount aero » Sat Oct 18, 2014 1:43 pm

StefanR wrote:
viscount aero wrote:Yes. I should have clarified a bit more. They haven't connected the dots with comets insofar as how they probably work. They've already admitted to the Moon's water ice having probably been created by the solar wind, going even as far to explain the process of the creation of hydroxyls (OH-)--exactly as explained in the Thunderbolts documentary about the electric comet. And even with the news about Hyperion (which is actually 7 year-old data) they fail to make the leap to comets. But perhaps in time they will. I think when they try to land the probe onto comet 67P something is going to flip them out :lol: Something is going to happen that will "baffle" them.


In that sense, I agree, and as can be seen in the Mercury-thread, with the latest posts by Frantic and Seasmith, it seems that even with water there, they are still stuck on some sort of seeding of water way way into the past. They even make allusions to subsurface ices for old deposits and late impact depositions to try to explain the seemingly recent depositions. :lol: Let alone the ubiquitous impact gardening.
But actually that whole article is all over the place. Typical. :roll:

In the lower-latitude craters, the fact that the low-reflectance deposits
display sharp boundaries that extend to the edges of the shadowed and
radar-bright regions (Fig. 4) contrasts with the 3 km offset of such boundaries
observed in Prokofiev and indicates that lateral mixing has not moved
the boundary of low-reflectance material inward. This observation implies
that the low-reflectance deposits formed geologically recently or as part
of an ongoing process.
However, if impact gardening of a low-reflectance
deposit tens of centimeters thick exposed or thermally disturbed underlying
water ice, any water ice exposed at the surface would quickly sublimate
(1 m in 106 yr at 130 K; 1 m in 103 yr at 150 K; Vasavada et al.,
1999; Paige et al., 2013). A stable configuration would rapidly be restored,
perhaps resulting in the formation of new lag deposits of low-reflectance
material. Thus, by continually disturbing and reforming the edges of the
low-reflectance deposits, the impact gardening process potentially could
keep the boundaries sharp and well matched to those of the radar-bright
and permanently shadowed regions.
One explanation
for differences between the Moon and Mercury could be that the
volatile polar deposits on Mercury were recently emplaced. If Mercury’s
currently substantial polar volatile inventory is the product of the most
recent portion of a longer process, then a considerable mass of volatiles
may have been delivered to the inner Solar System throughout its history.

LINK
Now what could that ongoing process actually be...? ;)

As for comet 67P, I'm still waiting to see those vents where that water is spouting from.... ;)


Typical of press releases are the obtuse but nonsensical language used to mask the lack of actual knowledge of what phenomena is occurring. They use the terms "impact gardening" and "space weathering" very vaguely and non-explanatory. That they are hung up on the meme of: "...a considerable mass of volatiles may have been delivered to the inner Solar System throughout its history" is very telling in that they cannot get past thinking that the water, any and all water, had to be "carried to the planets" from somewhere. Why must all of the water be somewhere else--far off in a fantasy land like the Oort Cloud--when it is in giant abundance on several celestial bodies?
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Saturn moon Hyperion fires 200v electron beam 1,200 miles

Unread postby quantauniverse » Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:42 pm

Scientists discovered by studying data from Cassini, that Saturn's moon Hyperion hit the spacecraft with a field aligned -200 volt electron particle beam, from a distance of about 1,200 miles. It was so brief that luckily nothing was damaged. The positive charged spacecraft became grounded with the moon, and zap electric current traveled through space. From this they say Hyperion has a -200 negative surface potential. Earth's moon is -20 volts and increases on the dark side and especially in the magnetosphere over -200 volts. Only an idiot that can't comprehend what I'm saying could believe that gravity is ruling our solar system.

http://holographicgalaxy.blogspot.com/2014/10/saturns-moon-hyperion-discovered.html
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