Earth - tectonics and geology

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Electronic Heat Trap Challenges Mantle Dynamics Models?

Unread postby flyingcloud » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:49 pm

MGmirkin wrote:
flyingcloud wrote:Electronic Heat Trap Grips Deep Earth: Current Models Of Mantle Dynamics Challenged
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 140404.htm


Interesting...

The scientists, including a co-author who was an NSF-sponsored summer college intern Benjamin Haugen, found that heat absorption is governed by the concentration of ferric (Fe3+) iron in silicate perovskite and ferropericlase. Their results for silicate perovskite in the visible and near infrared showed that heat absorption is dominated by the transfer of electron charges during oxidation—the process of electron loss—in the oxide O-Fe 3+.

"Our results show that the conductivity of heat in this part of the lower Earth is driven by the amount of ferric iron in the mantle and the process of losing and gaining electrons," said co-author Viktor Struzhkin. "We'll need to use this new collection of information to reexamine how mantle plumes and other dynamic features of this remote realm are affected."


Thanks for the news link!

Regards,
~Michael Gmirkin


thanks, I can't beleive it took me so long to find this place, Keep up the good work, this mental outlet is appreciated.
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Re: Electronic Heat Trap Challenges Mantle Dynamics Models?

Unread postby Divinity » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:17 pm

GaryN wrote:If we are going to accept that we live in an electric universe, then shouldn't we also consider that we live on an electric earth?
I dont know how the experts can say for sure what lies at the 600 to 2900 Km depths within the earth, the deepest we can be sure of is the Kola borehole at 12 Km or so. If what us EUers believe is true, then the experts are wrong about the surface of the earth (and other planets), nevermind what goes on deep below!

Yes! And does that make Earth a plasma (rock)?
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Re: Electronic Heat Trap Challenges Mantle Dynamics Models?

Unread postby MGmirkin » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:47 pm

Divinity wrote:
GaryN wrote:If we are going to accept that we live in an electric universe, then shouldn't we also consider that we live on an electric earth?
I dont know how the experts can say for sure what lies at the 600 to 2900 Km depths within the earth, the deepest we can be sure of is the Kola borehole at 12 Km or so. If what us EUers believe is true, then the experts are wrong about the surface of the earth (and other planets), nevermind what goes on deep below!

Yes! And does that make Earth a plasma (rock)?


Rock, maybe not so much (it's a solid, generally speaking). Magma may well be a highly collisional one (plasma; albeit more like molten rock but with very free charge carriers?). See some of the TPODs on volcanic lightning, etc. Telluric currents run below the surface over vast distances. Some rocks may act like p-type semiconductors or piezoelectric materials (producing currents when stressed / impacted). There are ULF radio signals that seem to precede major earthquakes.

There seem to be various discharges going on at all levels of the atmosphere (St. Elmo's Fire, Lightning, Positive Lightning, Pixies, Gnomes, Blue Starters, Blue Jets, Gigantic Jets, Sprites, Sprite Halos, TROLLs, TIGERs ELVES, the auroras). The Earth and sun are connected by Birkeland currents (field aligned currents) that seem to penetrate our magnetosphere on a regular basis (the so-called "magnetic portals" that open about every 8 minutes and transmit charged particles through the magnetospheric boundary; personally I'm inclined toward the leaky capacitor model for that), etc. So, yeah, the Earth and surrounds are pretty electric. Some of it we take for granted or are blissfully unaware of. But, it's still there!

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Re: Electronic Heat Trap Challenges Mantle Dynamics Models?

Unread postby junglelord » Thu Nov 13, 2008 8:38 pm

We are incredibly dynamicly electric. The amount of charge accumulation and discharge that this planet undergoes is enormous. From its interior to its connections to the electric sun. It is an incredible electric system.
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Re: Electronic Heat Trap Challenges Mantle Dynamics Models?

Unread postby Dragoneye » Sun Nov 16, 2008 8:09 am

Not sure if this will contribute to this thread. All this talk about capacitors made me think of something I occasionally run into. As a hobby sort of thing I occasionally restore antique (tube powered) electronics. One of the challenges I occasionally run into is referred to ( how correctly I don't know) as a "dried out" capacitor. It is a cap that will no longer hold enough electricity to function within it's circuit. This, in turn, caused me to think of moons and other bodies where little to no electrical activity is observed.

Sometimes, these "dried out" caps can be restored to function by energizing them with a low voltage that is increased over time to a full voltage and sporadically discharging the cap during the process. Don't know why as I can't peer inside the cap as it works.

I surmise that a "leaky" cap is actually 1) a fully functioning cap and 2) a cap that still has electricity applied to it but has insufficient resistance on the output side to hold the charge. Therefore, anything that will allow that electricity to flow out of the cap (atmosphere, dust, perhaps a minute magnetic field generated by the charged cap) will cause the cap to appear "leaky" as charge leaves the cap. If a cap is rapidly overcharged (by orders of magnitude over it's rated capacity) it will heat up and even explode. Perhaps a basis for the cause of super novae.
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Re: Electronic Heat Trap Challenges Mantle Dynamics Models?

Unread postby Osmosis » Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:35 am

Hi Dragoneye-Have you had the opportunity to read "The Electric Sky" and "The electric Universe"? Much will be explained.

Best Regards, Osmisis :D
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Re: Electronic Heat Trap Challenges Mantle Dynamics Models?

Unread postby Solar » Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:05 pm

Dragoneye wrote:If a cap is rapidly overcharged (by orders of magnitude over it's rated capacity) it will heat up and even explode. Perhaps a basis for the cause of super novae.

DING!!

That is the exact "model" of so called super novae I subscribe to.
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
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Re: Electronic Heat Trap Challenges Mantle Dynamics Models?

Unread postby seasmith » Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:31 pm

~
MGMirkin wrote:
There seem to be various discharges going on at all levels of the atmosphere (St. Elmo's Fire, Lightning, Positive Lightning, Pixies, Gnomes, Blue Starters, Blue Jets, Gigantic Jets, Sprites, Sprite Halos, TROLLs, TIGERs ELVES, the auroras). The Earth and sun are connected by Birkeland currents (field aligned currents) that seem to penetrate our magnetosphere on a regular basis (the so-called "magnetic portals" that open about every 8 minutes and transmit charged particles through the magnetospheric boundary; personally I'm inclined toward the leaky capacitor mode ...


Mike,
Great litany of bona fide EU phenomena- succinctly instructive.


Dragoneye wrote:
I surmise that a "leaky" cap is actually 1) a fully functioning cap and 2) a cap that still has electricity applied to it but has insufficient resistance on the output side to hold the charge. Therefore, anything that will allow that electricity to flow out of the cap (atmosphere, dust, perhaps a minute magnetic field generated by the charged cap) will cause the cap to appear "leaky" as charge leaves the cap. If a cap is rapidly overcharged (by orders of magnitude over it's rated capacity) it will heat up and even explode. Perhaps a basis ....


Very nice realworld insight .

why i hang out here,
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Re: Electronic Heat Trap Challenges Mantle Dynamics Models?

Unread postby Dragoneye » Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:13 am

Osmosis wrote:Hi Dragoneye-Have you had the opportunity to read "The Electric Sky" and "The electric Universe"? Much will be explained.

Best Regards, Osmisis :D


Thanks! Funny you should mention that. I got that book, The Electric Sky, from Amazon about a week and a half ago. I've made it through the introduction and just about finished the first chapter already. Will be able to read the rest soon. Been busy buttoning up the house for winter.
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Re: Electronic Heat Trap Challenges Mantle Dynamics Models?

Unread postby MGmirkin » Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:24 pm

Dragoneye wrote:Not sure if this will contribute to this thread. All this talk about capacitors made me think of something I occasionally run into. As a hobby sort of thing I occasionally restore antique (tube powered) electronics. One of the challenges I occasionally run into is referred to ( how correctly I don't know) as a "dried out" capacitor. It is a cap that will no longer hold enough electricity to function within it's circuit. This, in turn, caused me to think of moons and other bodies where little to no electrical activity is observed.

Sometimes, these "dried out" caps can be restored to function by energizing them with a low voltage that is increased over time to a full voltage and sporadically discharging the cap during the process. Don't know why as I can't peer inside the cap as it works.

I surmise that a "leaky" cap is actually 1) a fully functioning cap and 2) a cap that still has electricity applied to it but has insufficient resistance on the output side to hold the charge. Therefore, anything that will allow that electricity to flow out of the cap (atmosphere, dust, perhaps a minute magnetic field generated by the charged cap) will cause the cap to appear "leaky" as charge leaves the cap. If a cap is rapidly overcharged (by orders of magnitude over it's rated capacity) it will heat up and even explode. Perhaps a basis for the cause of super novae.


A few thoughts... Though, I'm not an electronics guru, just regurgitating a teeny tiny bit of what I've read.

It will depend on the type of capacitor (what kind of insulator it uses, what kind of load it's rated up to, etc.)... You might or might not recall this article:

(Earth: A Self-repairing Capacitor)
http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2004/arch ... acitor.htm

Specifically, the team's description of capacitors:

One electrical device which serves as a model for cosmic plasma activity is the capacitor. A capacitor is a device for accumulating and storing electric charge. It is made of two conductors separated by an insulating medium. When charge is placed on one conductor it attracts charge of the opposite polarity on the other conductor. As a result, an electric field is set up between the conductors, a reservoir of electrical energy.

[...]

As the charge on the capacitor increases, the electric field between the conductors will increase, placing a growing stress on the insulator. At some critical point, the insulator breaks down and the capacitor "short circuits," releasing the stored electrical energy suddenly. Such breakdowns may destroy a solid insulator and with it, the capacitor.

[...]

However, if the charging rate is slow and the insulator is air or liquid, the damage may repair itself as fresh insulating material rushes in. That is a "self-repairing" capacitor. If the current is strong or the insulator weak, current will pass between the conducting plates, either steadily or in bursts. This is called a "leaky capacitor."

[...]

Many natural systems form capacitors as well. For example, the Earth's surface and its ionosphere are two conducting layers separated by air. The surface-ionosphere capacitor is of particular interest in the study of sprites. Small "leaks" in the form of lightning can trigger much larger "leaks" (sprites, etc.) at high altitudes above them.


So, your observation below is apt:

[quote]If a cap is rapidly overcharged (by orders of magnitude over it's rated capacity) it will heat up and even explode./quote]

Giving new meaning to the term "pop a cap" (in this case, on someone's motherboard or some such). :D

So, yes, for a solid insulator, a capacitor discharge can "blow" the capacitor explosively.

A "leaky" capacitor seems, however, to be a capacitor where the dielectric (insulator) is insufficient to insulate the charges one from the other (charge 'leaks' or 'flows' across the insulator rather than staying separate). As the TPOD above notes, if the charging rate is slow enough and the insulator is a liquid or gas (or double layer?), then it may self-repair. IE, it discharges across the insulator, then more insulator rushes in to seal the breach (once the electric field between the accumulated opposite charges on both side of the insulator is reduced to a level that the insulator can manage to insulate against).

Happened across a few interesting tidbits:

(Electric double layer capacitor [EDLC])
http://endomoribu.shinshu-u.ac.jp/resea ... index.html

(Electric double-layer capacitor)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_d ... _capacitor

(Electrical double layer)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_double_layer

(Double layer [plasma])
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_layer_(plasma)

Cheers,
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Re: Electronic Heat Trap Challenges Mantle Dynamics Models?

Unread postby redeye » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:11 pm

If a cap is rapidly overcharged (by orders of magnitude over it's rated capacity) it will heat up and even explode.


I think this is what happened to the Northern hemisphere of Mars...or at least that's what the guy who wrote the article I read thinks, can't remember who wrote it and it vanished with the old forum.

A close encounter with Jupiter perhaps. (Mars...not the old forum!!!)

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LK EU Geology Theory

Unread postby Lloyd » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:21 am

* This is just an effort to summarize Earth geology according to EU & Shock Dynamics theory etc.
- Earth is a Geode formed in an electrical Z-pinch. Geodes, Concretions, Tektites, Balls in Craters and Blueberries are formed the same way. Geodes usually have several layers, with the densest layers toward the center, although the center may be hollow or filled with fluid under pressure. Earth's layers appear to be Core, Mantle, Lithosphere, and Crust.
- The Seafloors are mostly Basalt, about 3 miles thick, which cooled and solidified slowly, so the grains are microscopic. The Continents are mostly Granite, which is identical to Basalt, except the grains are larger, indicating that Granite cooled and solidified quickly. Gentry's radio-halo Inclusions in Granite, with parentless Po, also indicate quick solidification of the Granite Continents. It seems likely that Granite should initially have covered the entire Earth, because the outer layer would have been exposed to colder temperature, where solidification/crystallization would occur rapidly.
- Sedimentary Rock is layered Rock that covers 75% of Earth's continental surface from 2 to 6 miles deep. Sedimentary Rock was laid down by electrical deposition. 10-15% of Sedimentary Rock is Limestone. Limestone under the Bahamas is 3 miles deep. Limestone consists of Calcium etc, apparently from Seawater. Shale is common Sedimentary Rock made from Clay Soil. Sandstone is the third type and it is made from Sand, which is mostly SiO2.
- EDM removed most of Earth's Granite Crust from the Pacific Ocean Basin. Some of this was deposited on the Continents as Sedimentary Rock. The rest was likely thrown into space. The Pacific Ocean Ridge was formed in the process. Then a large meteorite and megalightning struck the Somali Basin and split the Supercontintent into Continents and Islands and drove them apart. The electrified fluid Moho Layer allowed them to slide for a few thousand miles. The Atlantic Ocean Ridge formed when the Americas split off from Africa and Eurasia. Mountains were built up mostly from horizontal compression from the initial outward motion of the Continents from the "impact" site and then from the friction that took hold as they slowed down, especially encountering the Pacific Ocean Ridge and Siberia. Electrical forces then modified the appearance of the mountain ranges.
- The Great Flood occurred after the Continents stopped sliding, when the Plasma Column at the North Pole was separated from Saturn.
- Soils are Loam, Clay, Sand and Loess. Clay and Sand form by EDM pulverizing Rock. Loam forms from organic matter combining with other Soil. Loess is Soil deposited by wind. California Loam washed out of the Granite Sierra Nevada Mouintains. Plants and bacteria transform Lava and Magma into Loam.
- Fossils occur almost exclusively in Sedimentary Rock, but also in Muck (mostly frozen), such as in Alaska and Siberia. Fossils formed mostly by electrification and were soon covered by electrical deposition of Sedimentary Layers. Some animals and plants were buried during the Great Flood, when many layers of Sediment covered them before electrification. In Ohio is a large area where sharks were fossilized. The Fossils are mostly in swimming positions, so the animals were trying to swim in wet mud, when they were covered by more Sediment, which became thick and heavy enough to hold the sharks in their swimming positions after they died. The overburden of Sediments was so heavy, that the sharks were flattened to about a quarter of an inch thick before the Sediments were electrically solidified.
- Seamounts and some Mountains are fulgamites. Magma, Lava and Flood Basalt are formed by electrical fluidization. Craters are formed by vertical, brief EDM. Shattercones in Craters are made by lightning sonic booms. Many River Valleys and Tributaries, as well as many Caverns and Gouge Patterns in Mountain Ranges, were formed by horizontal EDM.
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Granite Solidified Quickly

Unread postby Lloyd » Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:21 pm

* Conventional science seems to contend that granite cooled slowly, which allowed it to form large grains, whereas basalt cooled quickly, so it had less time to form large grains. My theory above said the opposite, partly because I got mixed up.
* However, Robert Gentry's parentless Polonium halo evidence still holds, indicating that the basement granite rocks formed quickly.
* So now the question is, Can larger grains form quickly and smaller grains form slowly?
* I think the grains in granite are crystals and this TPOD says lightning forms at least some crystals:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2007/arch07/071207caverns.htm.
* This TPOD makes similar statements:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2007/arch07/071214amazoniantepuis.htm.
* If those huge crystals could form quickly by electrical discharge, i.e. lightning, then I was just thinking that maybe the crystals in granite also formed quickly by tiny lightning permeating the ancient crust of the Earth.
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Re: LK EU Geology Theory

Unread postby seasmith » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:48 pm

Granites and Basalts
(partial quotes)

Granite:
As an igneous rock, granite forms from melted or molten rock called magma. As an intrusive rock, granite forms from molten rock that never reaches the surface of the Earth. Granite forms from the melting of lighter materials than is found in the deep crust or mantle. Where did this magma come from? There are scientists that disagree on this subject. In general there is agreement that most granite is derived from the melting of subducted crustal rock (lighter weighted rock) that slipped into the mantle in subduction zones such as those that are found ringing the Pacific Ocean today. If true then granite is a "newer" rock type as it required the plate tectonic process to have proceeded along before the first granites formed. It could have formed from some other process that segregates the lighter aluminum/silica material from more dense magnesium/iron material. It could also have been produced from a process called granitization or the melting of a chemically similar rock from intense metamorphism into a completely melted magma. However most granite crystallization models require water to be in the magma and the intense metamorphism scenario would not allow a lot of water to be present. The great variation and abundance of granite suggest that there could be many various formation models.

Granite is found in all continents around the world and is generally the foundation of many orogenic belts or mountain chains. Most often granite is the underlying rock upon which sedimentary and other continental rocks rest. Granite is found in batholiths or large magma plumes that rose into the continental rocks. But it can be seen in lots of other intrusive features such as dikes, sills and lacoliths.



Basalt:
A very common igneous rock. In fact it is the most common rock in the Earth's crust. Almost all oceanic crust is made of basalt and basalt is a common extrusion from many volcanic regions around the world. It forms from the melting of the upper mantle and its chemistry closely resembles the upper mantle's composition. It is generally silica poor and iron and magnesium rich. Basalt originates from "hot spot" volcanoes, massive basalt flows and mid oceanic ridges.

Basalt makes up most of the oceanic crust and is formed at (the "plate") boundaries as they are pulling apart. The melting of the mantle below the crust as it is spreading apart is call decompressional melting. It is the loss of pressure that causes the melting instead of an increase in temperature. The result is liquid basaltic magma rising and cooling on the edge of spreading tectonic plates forming prominent ridges. As the plates spread, more basalt attaches to the plate. Dating of oceanic rock shows that newer rock exists closer to the mid oceanic ridges as one would expect. Because basalt has magnetite as a typical component, when the basalt solidifies the magnetite crystals will be locked into place according to their orientation to the Earth's magnetic field.
If basaltic magma does not solidify on the surface of the Earth, but cools in its interior it forms an intrusive igneous rock called gabbro. Although Basalt is recognized as an extrusive igneous rock, sometimes very fine grained intrusive rock with basalt's composition is referred to as a basalt.


Gabbro is a plutonic igneous rock with the same mineral composition as basalt. However, as a plutonic rock it cooled much more slowly, resulting in a coarse grained texture.

The majority of the Earth's crust (the oceanic crust) consists of gabbro produced at mid-ocean ridges
.

Gabbro is dense, greenish or dark gray.
http://www.galleries.com/rocks/

~
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Re: LK EU Geology Theory

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:42 pm

* I forgot about an earlier thread I posted about some granite mountains in Scotland that the ancients saw get struck by megalightning apparently:
http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=363&p=8578#p8578.
* Since the surrounding mountains are gabbro, about the same as basalt, it seems that the lightning transmuted the gabbro into granite in a way like I described above.
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