Earth - tectonics and geology

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Geophysics

Unread postby Metryq » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:01 am

Down, Max! Down!

King David didn't say a thing about abandoning all of establishment geophysics. He asked about reconciling EU ideas with establishment geophysics. I would say the same holds true for astrophysics. No EU proponent in his right mind feels that all of establishment astronomy is wrong and must be trashed. Yet there are mainstream astronomers who completely ignore electrical effects and imagine current-free magnetic fields.

Geology and astrophysics have areas that simply will not overlap with EU ideas, such as gradualism and dirty snowballs. Knowing where the mainstream ideas are weak or flawed is not enough—some will not admit that much. If a model is weak or flawed, alternative suggestions should at least be tested, no matter how crazy they seem—such as doctors washing their hands between patients, even though one could "see" that their hands are clean.
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Re: Geophysics

Unread postby Dotini » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:33 am

Here's an exciting discovery which should give everybody something to think about:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 113222.htm

Thanks to a novel application of earthquake-reading technology, researchers have found that the Earth's inner core has an inner core of its own, which has surprising properties that could reveal information about our planet.

A research team from the University of Illinois and colleagues in China found earth's inner core has an inner core of its own, with crystals aligned in a different direction.

The inner core, once thought to be a solid ball of iron, has some complex structural properties. The team found a distinct inner-inner core, about half the diameter of the whole inner core. The iron crystals in the outer layer of the inner core are aligned directionally, north-south. However, in the inner-inner core, the iron crystals point roughly east-west.

Journal Reference:
1. Xiaodong Song et al. Equatorial anisotropy in the inner part of Earth’s inner core from autocorrelation of earthquake coda. Nature Geoscience, Feb 9, 2015
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Re: Geophysics

Unread postby Max Photon » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:00 am

Down, Max! Down!

King David didn't say a thing about abandoning all of establishment geophysics.


Metryq, that's incredibly insulting! Why are you talking to me as if I were a dog?

Did you even read what I wrote?

I wrote:

My recommendation: keep an open mind ... but not so open that your brain falls out.


It was Starbiter who responded:

... my work requires geologists to admit EVERYTHING they know about the process of geology is wrong.


... in response to which I suggested:

I strongly suggest you [King David] not toss out your education just quite yet.


So why the abusive mischaracterization?


On top of it all, you write:

No EU proponent in his right mind feels that all of establishment astronomy is wrong and must be trashed.


I never mentioned astronomy!

Again, did you even read the thread?

Reread Starbiter's quote. Why don't you "jump all over" Starbiter?


An apology would be appreciated.


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Re: Geophysics

Unread postby nick c » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:21 am

starbiter wrote:... my work requires geologists to admit EVERYTHING they know about the process of geology is wrong.

Max,
What starbiter is referring to is the uniformitarian paradigm which is the foundation of modern geology. Starbiter is advocating a paradigm shift.
Uniformitarianism is nothing more than an 'a priori' assumption which predetermines conclusions derived from analysis of the geological column. Mainstream's dating systems and other conclusions drawn from an analysis of the geological column are a product of that assumption.
In that context, I am in total agreement with the above quote.
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Re: Geophysics

Unread postby Max Photon » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:52 am

Yes Nick, I am quite clear on the uniformitarian paradigm, and the EU paradigm. I am well-studied in both.


So there you have it King David. You are being told that EVERYTHING you know about the process of geology is wrong.

So much for your education!


King David, from one geophysicist to another, I sincerely apologize for daring to suggest that you keep an open mind.
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Re: Geophysics

Unread postby seasmith » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:33 am

~
Dotini wrote:
Thanks to a novel application of earthquake-reading technology, researchers have found that the Earth's inner core has an inner core of its own, which has surprising properties that could reveal information about our planet.

A research team from the University of Illinois and colleagues in China found earth's inner core has an inner core of its own, with crystals aligned in a different direction.

The inner core, once thought to be a solid ball of iron, has some complex structural properties. The team found a distinct inner-inner core, about half the diameter of the whole inner core. The iron crystals in the outer layer of the inner core are aligned directionally, north-south. However, in the inner-inner core, the iron crystals point roughly east-west.






Surely sheer coincidence, but the crystal alignments shown are the same as those of core and windings of an electric transformer:

Image

http://phys.org/news/2015-02-earth-geol ... tml#ajTabs


ps,
Max P, don't get into a discussion of so-called "uniformitarian≈ism" around here,
it will last longer than the ice ages.....................................................

;)
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Re: Geophysics

Unread postby Frantic » Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:10 pm

STARBITER wrote:... my work requires geologists to admit EVERYTHING they know about the process of geology is wrong.


Max Photon wrote:So, for example, if you go to Point Reyes, CA, located on the west side of the San Andreas Fault, you will encounter geology that closely matches that found around Tehachapi in southern California. The notion is that the west side of the fault has moved the Point Reyes structure north relative to Tehachapi.

But you are asked to admit that "EVERYTHING" about the process of geology is wrong. Those rocks are not 80 - 100 million years old. There is no San Andreas fault. In the 1906 earthquake, even though the visible, measurable surface displacement in the Point Reyes area was up to 25 feet (!), you are asked to ignore that too.

All the earthquakes, from micro to large that clearly delineate the San Andreas Fault ... wrong!

I could go on.


Max, Those are all observations and as such are valid. However, the cause of the fault, whether or not plates exist, age of the materials, etc. None of that is proven science. There are arguments of the underlying causes in which mainstream and EU differ, not in observations. Your statement is just as insulting as you felt nick's was, to imply we cannot see an obvious observation. I have no side in this argument, but you should do better if you want to convince someone of your opinion and avoid getting upset.
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Re: Geophysics

Unread postby kiwi » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:02 pm

Max, Those are all observations and as such are valid. However, the cause of the fault, whether or not plates exist, age of the materials, etc. None of that is proven science. There are arguments of the underlying causes in which mainstream and EU differ, not in observations. Your statement is just as insulting as you felt nick's was, to imply we cannot see an obvious observation. I have no side in this argument, but you should do better if you want to convince someone of your opinion and avoid getting upset.


Gradualism is 100% correct if you stay tightly focused on the "one" area/issue under discussion.... zoom out and weigh it against the "Global" picture and it falls apart at the seam's ....
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Re: Geophysics

Unread postby nick c » Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:09 pm

King David, from one geophysicist to another, I sincerely apologize for daring to suggest that you keep an open mind.

Max,
That is quite disingenuous. The implication that we have two equal choices and that an "open minded" evaluation is in order is simply not the case. It is not a matter of open mindedness. We are all taught the uniformitarian paradigm as fact, not only in geology but in many other disciplines as well. That is the root of all our formal educations.
It is the reigning belief system, one could go as far as to describe it as a religion! I say that after having read the catastrophic literature over the last 65 years I have never seen any convincing rebuttals by proponents of the assumptive uniformitarian belief system.
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Re: Geophysics

Unread postby seasmith » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:32 pm


With the utmost respect for all who have contributed to this thread;
surely among this highly enlightened forum of folk, it is no longer the dull choice of either/ or
Catastrophism versus Uniformitarianism
.

Everybody brings to the table different learning backgrounds and educations, and should all be respected for their time and effort thusly committed, so let's just accept and appreciate any new insights made possible by a synthesis of conterposed views.
Sheesh, i hate soapboxes, including the one i am now stumbling off of...
:roll:
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Re: Geophysics

Unread postby nick c » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:15 pm

Actually uniformitarianism vs catastrophism is the topic (though not specifically stated) of the original post for this thread. There is no compromise between the two (gradualism would be the process only during the calm periods between catastrophes.)
That issue is the underpinning of the Electric Universe which is rooted in a catastrophic paradigm. It is the root of the hostility toward the EU from establishment science.

Human endeavor is marked by the quest for reassurance that the heavens are stable and our species' existence is secure. It is wishful thinking, the Universe does not work that way.
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Re: Geophysics

Unread postby viscount aero » Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:13 am

seasmith wrote:~
Dotini wrote:
Thanks to a novel application of earthquake-reading technology, researchers have found that the Earth's inner core has an inner core of its own, which has surprising properties that could reveal information about our planet.

A research team from the University of Illinois and colleagues in China found earth's inner core has an inner core of its own, with crystals aligned in a different direction.

The inner core, once thought to be a solid ball of iron, has some complex structural properties. The team found a distinct inner-inner core, about half the diameter of the whole inner core. The iron crystals in the outer layer of the inner core are aligned directionally, north-south. However, in the inner-inner core, the iron crystals point roughly east-west.



Surely sheer coincidence, but the crystal alignments shown are the same as those of core and windings of an electric transformer:

Image

http://phys.org/news/2015-02-earth-geol ... tml#ajTabs


ps,
Max P, don't get into a discussion of so-called "uniformitarian≈ism" around here,
it will last longer than the ice ages.....................................................

;)



hmm that's quite an amazing "coincidence"
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Re: Geophysics

Unread postby King David » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:08 am

I personally do not see how the observations of earth science are incompatible with EU theory. We still have plate boundaries that are spreading. There still is radioactive decay, albeit it may be quite different from how we understand. I even think that there are integrated mechanisms that involve gradualism and catastrophism. Like I said with EU involved then there may geophysics would be the first to benefit from such progress
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Re: Geophysics

Unread postby nick c » Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:14 am

I personally do not see how the observations of earth science are incompatible with EU theory.
Agreed, of course. It is not necessarily observations that are disputed. What is disputed is the interpretation and conclusions drawn from those observations, within the context of a paradigm.
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Re: Geophysics

Unread postby seasmith » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:21 am

spheroid transforming coils
spheroid transforming coils.jpg
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