Electric Moon

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Electric Moon

Unread postby GaryN » Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:48 am

Solar wind particles likely source of water locked inside lunar soils
"We found that the 'water' component, the hydroxyl, in the lunar regolith is mostly from solar wind implantation of protons, which locally combined with oxygen to form hydroxyls that moved into the interior of glasses by impact melting," said Zhang, the James R. O'Neil Collegiate Professor of Geological Sciences.

http://phys.org/news/2012-10-solar-part ... soils.html
They believe impact melting responsible for creation of the glass that the water is locked inside, but if they are ready to accept the solar wind as an answer for the water, then why don't they also accept solar wind induction heating as the method for the silicates production? That has already been proposed for comets, why not the moon?
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Re: Electric Moon

Unread postby flyingcloud » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:12 am

Furthermore, when can we use this to challenge the "dirty snowball" comet theory and change the offgassing of volitiles in the solar wind to the creation of volitiles from the solar-comet interaction.
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Re: Electric Moon

Unread postby GaryN » Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:19 am

Mineral analysis of lunar crater deposit prompts a second look at the impact cratering process

Large impacts on the Moon can form wide craters and turn surface rock liquid. Geophysicists once assumed that liquid rock would be homogenous when it cooled. Now researchers have found evidence that pre-existing mineralogy can survive impact melt.
...
It is not clear exactly how or why this feature formed the way it did, the researchers say. That's an area for future study. But the fact that impact melt isn't always homogenous changes the way geologists look at lunar impact craters.


Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-04-mineral-an ... t.html#jCp

Of course it will be a long time before they consider a process other than impacts, but at least this might make some of them think a little further outside the box.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Bright Explosion on the Moon

Unread postby Metryq » Fri May 17, 2013 3:18 am

A recent NASA Science News article states, "Bright Explosion on the Moon":

May 17, 2013: For the past 8 years, NASA astronomers have been monitoring the Moon for signs of explosions caused by meteoroids hitting the lunar surface. "Lunar meteor showers" have turned out to be more common than anyone expected, with hundreds of detectable impacts occurring every year.
They've just seen the biggest explosion in the history of the program.
...
The 40 kg meteoroid measuring 0.3 to 0.4 meters wide hit the Moon traveling 56,000 mph. The resulting explosion1 packed as much punch as 5 tons of TNT.


I don't doubt that random bits of debris whizzing about the Solar system strike the Moon from time to time. We have lots of meteor showers in our own sky. However, I'm curious about the exact specs on the "meteoroid"—exact weight, size and speed. Is there some kind of spacetrack system that supplies this information, or is the "data" reverse engineered from the observed flash (e.g. a flash that bright would have required...)? In other words, do we know that the flash was created by impact kinetics, or is that institutional boilerplate?
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Re: Bright Explosion on the Moon

Unread postby ElecGeekMom » Fri May 17, 2013 3:32 pm

I vote for institutional boilerplate.

I find it hard to believe that molten lava from an impact would make that big of a light, especially at this distance.
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Re: Bright Explosion on the Moon

Unread postby GaryN » Sat May 18, 2013 11:13 am

or is the "data" reverse engineered from the observed flash


I'd say so, and agree a kinetic melt should nowhere near be visible from Earth. So what is a better explanation?
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Re: Bright Explosion on the Moon

Unread postby 4realScience » Sat May 18, 2013 2:55 pm

They say it was an impact but where is the trace of the flight path? All they really have is that there was a meteor shower that passed near Earth and some through its atmosphere at about the right time to imply another of the group made the hit.

Let's say it really was a meteor hit. Since we now have the Lunar Orbiter imager up, it will soon capture a good image. What will we see? If it was a meteor should we not see an elliptical crater with debris thrown in the direction of impact? What if, instead we see another perfectly circular crater and no debris?

Isn't this the FIRST such crater where we saw it happen then we get a closeup photo right away?
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Re: Bright Explosion on the Moon

Unread postby starbiter » Sat May 18, 2013 3:06 pm

Because the flash was quick, it seems dust is ruled out. A dust cloud would linger. As Gary mentioned above, heat from impact seems inadequate for a flash to be visible from a minimum of 220,000 miles away. That would leave an electrical event. A rock charged differently than the Moon discharging in the air, or at impact.

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Re: Bright Explosion on the Moon

Unread postby justcurious » Sat May 18, 2013 3:32 pm

As far as I know....
Amateur astronomers have been observing these flashes for a long time.
Until recently, lunar flashes were dismissed as imagination, camera artefacts, and other lame excuses.
With the digital age and internet, and amateur astronomers catching stuff on video, looks like the so-called "TLP" (Transient Lunar Phenomenon) are being recognized as a real (and common) event. Here's what Wikipedia says about TLPs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transient_lunar_phenomenon
I was researching this a while back, and found that NASA has a program whereby amateur astronomers around the world can submit their images and videos. However NASA do not apparently share this gathered information publicly.The website to the NASA program is here: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/news/lunar/

I have seen some of the videos on youtube (there are only one or two vidoes on the above NASA link).
The standard theory goes something like this: the meteor impacts the moon, and due to kinetic energy, melts the lunar ground and thus gives off a glow. The problem with this is that anyone can see, that the flashes resemble more a camera flash than red hot lava, and the flashes appear disproportionate to the meteor's size. To my eyes, it looks like static electricity, just on a larger scale.
I could not find any details on the size of these meteors, however there are some pretty good observations and data on meteors and fireballs entering the Earth's atmosphere. they tend to "burst" or vaporize in mid-air, with only small fragments reaching the ground (and not leaving any craters).
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Re: Bright Explosion on the Moon

Unread postby GaryN » Sun May 19, 2013 10:19 am

I was researching this a while back, and found that NASA has a program whereby amateur astronomers around the world can submit their images and videos. However NASA do not apparently share this gathered information publicly.


Just as they don't share most of the information they collect, at the taxpayers expense. It should be a clue though WRT the lunar TLPs, that they are only observed from Earth. I see NASA does have another project in the works, LADEE.

NASA Looks Towards Next Mission to the Moon

To study this unique lunar environmental phenomenon, NASA is in the process of testing the Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) in preparations for its upcoming launch. Recently, LADEE integrated the last of its three main science instruments. The three instruments to be launched with the craft are the Ultraviolet and Visible Light Spectrometer, which will analyze the light signatures of the materials it detects on the Moon, the Neutral Mass Spectrometer, set to detect differences in what little atmosphere there is on the Moon over multiple orbits, and the Lunar Dust Experiment, which will collect and analyze any dust particles that are floating around the sparse atmosphere that LADEE will be flying in.


LADEE will also carry a “technology demonstration payload,” which will allow it to communicate with Earth using lasers rather than radio waves. This will dramatically increase the speed of information transfer between the spacecraft and its controllers, resulting in almost broadband-internet levels of data exchange. If this technology proves successful it is likely to be used on future lunar exploration missions as well.


Read more: http://www.universetoday.com/99013/nasa ... z2TlAdk800

Even if it doesn't see TLPs, It will be interesting to see how the laser communications system functions. Broadband video from the Moon, that could be interesting.
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Re: Bright Explosion on the Moon

Unread postby PersianPaladin » Tue May 21, 2013 1:53 am

The explosion "looks" like a camera flash because the instrumentation that was observing the Moon is only capable of showing black and white or grey-scale images. I doubt there is full-colour imagery available of the impact. So it could well still be a flash from kinetic energy, but I am open-minded about it to be honest.
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Re: Bright Explosion on the Moon

Unread postby justcurious » Tue May 21, 2013 10:34 am

PersianPaladin wrote:The explosion "looks" like a camera flash because the instrumentation that was observing the Moon is only capable of showing black and white or grey-scale images. I doubt there is full-colour imagery available of the impact. So it could well still be a flash from kinetic energy, but I am open-minded about it to be honest.


Good point about the color. Would you agree that the Light generated is "very short-lived" and very bright? All the videos that I have seen show a little spot of light appearing on the surface (with amateur astronomer equipment) for a fraction of a secon. It looks to me very much like the sudden flashes of meteor bursts in the Earths atmosphere as seen from satellites except there is no tail or apparent trail.
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Re: Bright Explosion on the Moon

Unread postby fatarsemonkey » Thu May 23, 2013 7:02 am

Did any of the apollo missions leave behind any equipment for registering electrical activity on the moon like we use for lightning tracking on earth? Not that I think they would be looking for lightning but any activity. Is there equipment sensitive enough to register a discharge before impact? Would it be possible to track it from the earth?
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Re: Bright Explosion on the Moon

Unread postby scotts » Sun May 26, 2013 9:31 am

The bright flash not unlike when deep impact met up with the comet.

http://www.holoscience.com/wp/the-deep- ... e=hcabb8zj
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Re: Electric Moon

Unread postby GaryN » Mon May 27, 2013 4:22 pm

Alien material on the Moon
Unusual minerals found in craters on the Moon may be alien, a new study suggests.

The claim is made in a paper published today in Nature Geoscience that uses computer modelling to show these rare minerals may not be indigenous to the Moon as previously believed.
...
On Earth, spinel forms under high temperatures and pressures not seen near the Moon's surface. It is also found in some asteroids and meteors.


http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... aPlTvGpp-6

With a slow enough impact, they believe the material from the impactor could survive in detectable quantities, within the crater. On Earth the spinel is believed to be from deep metamorphosis, and has been brough up to the surface over time. Could an electrical discharge provide a more sensible method for both the Lunar and Earth surface material, if it is created by EMPs during discharge, and right where it is found?
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