Electric Comets

[nick c]

Biknewb
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: Holmes gets very bright Reply with quote
Comet 17P/Holmes has suddenly brightened. What puzzles me is that it is moving along it's orbit away from the sun. Shouldn't the electrical stress be getting less on the way out?

http://www.astro.uni-bonn.de/%7Edfische ... r/306.html
Quote:
Incredible comet eruption: from under 17th to 3rd magnitude in hours!

A most amazing eruption is occuring on comet 17P/Holmes which was at 17 mag. at best but on October 24 suddenly began to brighten like crazy: Now (afternoon UTC) it has already reached 3rd magnitude and is easily visible to the naked eye, as reports from Japan indicate: "Perseus does not look 'Perseus' familiar to us due to the bright stellar object now." The comet looks like a bright, yellow star, and only magnification reveals a fuzzy coma around the dusty core.

[StefanR]

Plnbz
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
People should correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that EU Theory postulates that quasi-neutrality is frequently violated in space because filaments of charged particles exist in space. In the same way that touching a light bulb to a conducting wire would light the bulb, objects traveling through the filaments could become electrically connected to the filament. I would expect that the object would rapidly diminish in intensity just as quickly as it faded in at some point relatively soon. If not, then that would appear to be somewhat enigmatic to EU Theory, IMO.

Be aware that I am not a scientist.

[StefanR]

Sol88
Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:23 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Could it be the comet has intercepted a particularly strong and active field aligned current and can now draw some nice dense concentrated current from it, like pln2bz said?

After all the post by Redeye in "Validation of the electric comet model"

snip

Quote:
Ulysses racked up its third, and perhaps most scientifically revealing, comet tail encounter this past February when it again flew through the ion tailings of a comet named McNaught (a different comet than the one encountered in 2004, but discovered by and named after the same astronomer). The nucleus of this comet McNaught was some 257 million kilometers (160 million miles) from the spacecraft during encounter. Ulysses’ solar wind ion composition spectrometer instrument, developed by University of Michigan heliophysicist George Gloeckler, found that even at such a great distance, the tail had filled the solar outflow with unusual gases and molecules. In response, the solar wind that usually measures about 700 kilometers per second (435 miles per second) at that distance from the sun, was less than 400 kilometers per second (249 miles per second) inside the comet’s tail, as measured by one of Ulysses’ instruments called "Solar Wind Observations Over the Poles of the Sun."


As well as those pesky sunward moving electrons in the solar wind "stralh" Smile


Quote:
Several theories invoke scattering of the outward propagating strahl electrons to populate the sunward directed part of the solar wind superthermal (halo) electron distribution. If such a scattering mechanism occurs then does it occur in the inner or outer heliosphere? We examine how the sunward moving and anti-sunward moving superthermal electrons vary with distance from the Sun and assess whether or not the source of sunward moving electrons lies between 1 and 5 AU. We use in-ecliptic Ulysses SWOOPS (Solar Wind Observations Over the Poles of the Sun) electron measurements from 1991 when Ulysses was on its way to Jupiter. We start with electron velocity distributions in magnetic coordinates, and determine if the magnetic field is pointing towards or away from the Sun. We then integrate daily average distributions to determine the relative populations of superthermal electrons moving towards and away from the Sun, and assess their variations with distance.
Maybe Very Happy
In "Mainstream" terrestrial" language, it's running into a headwind!

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2002AGUFMSH11A0387E

[StefanR]

Biknewb
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:53 am Post subject:
SeaSmith wrote:
~
Or perhaps an encounter with the helio-pause DL ?
Couldn't get from the quotes, where in the solar system is the little bad actor...

Question

It is currently between mars and jupiter. In this moving orbit diagram( http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=17p&orb=1 ), I found out it is moving away from the sun.

The idea of a filament sounds good. Shouldn't this be a positive filament, to make a negative comet light up?

Also tried to find a CME in the days beforehand. But I have no idea how long it would take a CME to pass by mars.

[StefanR]

Michael Mozina
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:40 pm
I guess what I find most annoying is the fact that other recent articles about comet tails during CME events have mentioned that solar wind particles have picked up electrons in the comets tail. They now observe a million fold increase in brightness of a comet over a relatively short time frame, and they refuse to accept the implications of their own statements. The mainstream community's emotional bigotry toward EU theory is preventing them from acknowledging the obvious.

Instead of accepting the role of electrical currents in space, the mainstream community dreams up countless metaphysical entities. It's completely irrational behavior. From laboratory testing, we know that plasmas have known physical properties. The most important property of plasma is the fact that they are excellent conductors of current. Instead of putting two and two together, they simply bury their heads in the sand and they refuse to consider these observations from a purely scientific and logical perspective. If the solar wind has been observed to have picked up electrons in the comet's tail, and the comet "brightens" as this sort of process is occurring, then the only logical option here is to recognize that there is current flowing between the sun, and through the comet. There is nothing really left as a logical and rational explanation. IMO, this is an important and obvious clue about the nature of our universe. I'm sick of seeing the mainstream community trying to sweep this sort of information under the carpet due to their irrational prejudices.

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:15 pm
Hmm. Well the are plasma "arms" that come off the sun all the time, even now. If you watch the LASCO images, particularly the LASCO C3 movies, you'll notice that the hydrogen plasma comes off the solar photosphere in "streams" or rivers. There are sometimes "bursts" that flow off the sun even during it's relatively quiet phases'. It's not a homogeneous release of energy, even during solar minimums. In other words, that comet could be passing through a current carrying filament and it is simply reacting to the flow of electrons that it encountered in the stream. It could also be passing through a stream and encountering a "burst" like the one you can see coming off the left side of today's LASCO C3 images.

[StefanR]

Biknewb
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:11 pm
If I understand the electric comet model correctly, the nucleus has been charged negatively at a large distance from the sun. It is being machined by electric currents when it is near the sun. This implies that this current should be positive with respect to the nucleus. So protons or even neutral atoms may do the trick. This outburst could be caused by a proton strahl hitting Holmes.

I found the proton strahl mentioned here http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/25039/1/96-0678.pdf
Quote:
A correct understanding of the double streaming of solar
wind ions would provide us information on the origin and
transport of the solar wind. It sbotdd bc noted that proton dou-
ble streaming is probably of different origin than that of He-
lium, Helios observations at 0.3 A(J generally do not indicate
the presence of a secondary proton beam in a high speed
stream (Marsch CI al,, 1982a). Rather, a proton strahl is typi-
cally present which evolves into a secondary beam with in-
creasing distance from the Sun. Both the strahl and the later
forming secondary beam can be understood on the basis that
faster particles have smaller Coulomb cross-sections and run
away from the bulk of the distribution (1.ivi ad Marsch,
1987).


The option of the tail of McNaught influencing Holmes is also promising. Is there any way to find out where this tail is (or McNaught itself) compared to Holmes?

[StefanR]

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:08 am
Thought I'd find a good pic or two of this Holmes character.

http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/press/2007/p ... mages.html
"Here are two images I took last night on the 48" telescope on the ridge. On the left is a relatively gentle processing to reveal the halo-like structure. On the right has been more aggressively processed to reveal jet-like stricture." Credit: Gil Esquerdo

[StefanR]

StefanR
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Interplanetary Mag. Field
Btotal: 3.8 nT
Bz: 1.1 nT south
explanation | more data
Updated: Today at 2343 UT
Coronal Holes:


Earth is exiting a solar wind stream flowing from the indicated coronal hole. Credit: Hinode X-ray Telescope

http://spaceweather.com/

[quote]AURORA WATCH: Earth is exiting a solar wind stream that sparked beautiful polar auroras on Oct. 25th. The chances for a follow-up display tonight are low: gallery.

EXPLODING COMET: Exploding Comet 17P/Holmes is now larger than Jupiter. Astronomer Eric Allen of Quebec's Observatoire du Cégep de Trois-Rivières combined images he captured on three consecutive nights (Oct. 25, 26 and 27) and placed them beside a picture of Jupiter scaled to the same distance as the comet.

also:
http://www.spaceweather.com/comets/holmes/27oct07/Antonello-Medugno1.jpg
Multi-wavelength imaging of the comet 17P/Holmes

[StefanR]

Biknewb
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
Aha an update at Spaceweather.com. And an explanation <gggg>
Quote:
There is growing evidence that some comets and asteroids may have a porous internal structure akin to, say, swiss cheese or a honycomb. Suppose one of the chambers of the honycomb suddenly collapsed, exposing many square kilometers of fresh cometary ice to sunlight for the first time. A flurry of sublimation would ensue with mega-jets of dusty gas emerging from the sinkhole to create a cloud around the comet much as we see now.

Are these jets the same as the highly collimated jets on other comets?
Wink From the circular form we see it follows that
1 the jet is aimed straight at us and
2 the comet has no rotation.

This circular "cloud" is puzzling. When is the solar "wind" going to blow it into a tail?

[StefanR]

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:33 am Post subject: Reply with quote
JPL Small-Body Database Browser
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=17p&orb=1

You can see how the comet, sun and earth relate orbitally. Great tool.

This guy on BAUD makes a nice link about MBC's
http://www.bautforum.com/astronomy/6639 ... comet.html
Quote:
From this website it would appear that Comet 17p/Holmes is not a main-belt comet. Is this because its orbit is not completely within the asteroid belt and also because it has a higher eccentricity?

Also interesting:
Possible Detection of a Short Tail Behind Comet 17/P Holmes
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.rss ... ?pid=23901
Quote:
A preliminary analysis, performed by astronomers Pierre Bastien and Rene Doyon from Universite de Montréal and the Centre de Recherche en Astrophysique du Quebec (CRAQ) clearly shows a bright elongated feature surrounding the more luminous comet's coma. This elongated feature, probably a cloud of dust and gas, which resembles a small tail, is going out at position angle of 145 degrees (+/- 5 deg), measured from north and going east. This direction makes an angle of about 33 degrees relative to the Sun-comet direction. Although the images display tantalizing evidence of a tail, the direction of the feature does not point directly in the direction opposite to the Sun, as expected.

[StefanR]

Plnbz
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:06 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Don't forget that fragmentation was observed for the comet that caused the Great Chicago Fire, and of particular note was that the fragmentation induced a connecting bridge between the two pieces. It's been easy to dismiss since it happened so long ago (remember, reality expires in the mainstream to make room for newer publications). But if we observed a connecting bridge this time around, the imaging available to NASA might be difficult to interpret as sublimation.

[StefanR]

davesmith_au
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:04 am Post subject: All praise 2 the gimp... Reply with quote

Dynamic ACE RTSW Plots
SOLAR WIND:
Mag field & Plasma
7 days
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/ace/MAG_SWEPAM_7d.html


Low Energy Electrons & Protons
7 days
http://www.sec.noaa.gov/ace/EPAM_7d.html

[StefanR]

Ion01
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:02 am
While I was looking at it I got to thinking: It basically has a huge atmosphere as the distribution is uniformly around the comet and has, in essance, taken on the structure of planets like venus. Its "atmosphere" is huge, comparable to the size of jupiter, and appears to be held by the comet. Obviously the comet does not contain enough mass for such a structure to be held in place through gravity alone..... and if it did it wouln't be expelling the material but pulling it back to it.
Also, in looking at the orbit, the closest point to the sun is near the plane of the planets. Currently it is moving farther and farther from the plane. Could this be an possible cause. Possibly, the plane is a more electrically balanced environment and the farther it gets from it the more electrical stress? Will it continue to grow until it starts getting closer the the plane? What reference does it have to novas and gas planets? I am sure there are implications at least. Could it possibly become a small gas planet?
So many questions that will hopefully be answered as time goes on. I am sure of one thing.........the standard model will not have a good answer for anything that happens concerning this incident. This could be one of the best opportunities that EU may have to step up to the for front of cosmology!

[StefanR]

StefanR
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:59 pm
-A sudden flare up of a 'comet'.
-When Asteroids Become Comets
The surprising discovery of asteroids with comet tails supports the longstanding claim of the electrical theorists—that the essential difference between asteroids and comets is the shape of their orbits.
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/ ... teroid.htm
-There was a coronal hole at the 'same' time, causing bright earth aurora's.
-The ACE-data (thanks Dave) shows rapid changes in the solar wind.
little change in electron detection but spikes of protons.
A doubling of the windspeed/a small raise of the temp with the speed, but the density of the wind hardly changes.
-As we can see in the JPL-small body applet, earth and comet are somewhat in the same general direction only the comet is above the plane.
-Comet Schwassmann-Wachmann 3 Disintegrates
Quote:
Schwassmann-Wachmann 3, first observed in 1930 and named after its two German discoverers, completes an orbit every 5.4 years. Following its discovery it was little more than a footnote in comet science until 1995. The first appearance of the comet that year was so bright that astronomers hailed it as a new comet. But as it turned out, the "newcomer" was Schwassmann-Wachmann 3, presenting itself in more glorious dress than ever before, despite the fact that conditions were not favorable. It was 150 million miles away, but shining hundreds of times more brightly than expected.

So maybe some connection between the two.
Quote:
Schwassmann-Wachmann 3, first observed in 1930 and named after its two German discoverers, has never put on a spectacular display comparable to such "Great Comets" of the twentieth century as Halley, Hale-Bopp, and Hyakutake. It is a short-period comet: for electrical theorists that means a lower-voltage comet—and, as a rule, less drama.

Schwassmann-Wachmann 3 completes an orbit every 5.4 years. Its path takes it from just beyond the orbit of Jupiter to inside the orbit of Earth. But it does not visit the more remote regions of the solar system, while the spectacular "Great Comets" spend long periods adjusting in that more negative environment of the Sun's domain before racing sunward. What Schwassmann-Wachmann 3 does exhibit, however, is a highly elliptical (elongated) orbit, so in electrical terms that means more rapid transit through the Sun's electric field and more intense stresses on the capacitor than would be the case were the comet moving on a less eccentric path between the regions of Jupiter's and Earth's orbits.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/ ... reakup.htm
Quote:
A capacitor, one of the most commonly used devices in electrical engineering, stores electrical charge between layers of insulating material. And that is what a comet moving through regions of different charge will do—it will store electric charge.

- there is a tail pointing away from earth but not really direct opposite of the sun.

[StefanR]

nick c
Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:02 pm
With regards to the nucleus of Holmes 17P splitting, apparently this has not happened. I have found from an observation website that on the night I was observing, a background star was shining thru the comet and was next to the nucleus making it appear doubled.
It is interesting. The explanations (for the outburst in brightness) that the "experts" are putting forth have the tone of complete befuddlement. So far, I have read that a "vein of volatiles has been uncovered"..."the comet has broken into pieces increasing the amount of area that can reflect sunlight"..."hit by a meteor"..."it's too far from the sun for anything like this?"..."what a complete surprise."
Also, this comet had a similar outburst in the 1890's when Holmes made the discovery. Other than that outburst and this one it has been pretty much of an obscure object contained within the orbits of Jupiter and Mars visible in only very large observatory telescopes.