Electric Comets

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

Moderators: bboyer, MGmirkin

Locked
Maustin
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:06 pm

Re: Comet Siding-Springs Mars Flyby

Unread post by Maustin » Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:00 am

Discharge event? I was hoping for one, but haven't seen anything reported.

User avatar
AgentP
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:06 am
Location: New England

Re: Comet Siding-Springs Mars Flyby

Unread post by AgentP » Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:43 am

It seems strange to me that for such an anticipated event that there is only a very grainy and unfocussed picture of this event. It seems that there would be very high-resolution images of this.
Is it a glare effect, as others have said, or is it an electrical discharge?
"...a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy..."

User avatar
viscount aero
Posts: 2381
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 11:23 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California
Contact:

Re: Comet Siding-Springs Mars Flyby

Unread post by viscount aero » Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:19 am

AgentP wrote:It seems strange to me that for such an anticipated event that there is only a very grainy and unfocussed picture of this event. It seems that there would be very high-resolution images of this.
I agree. A range of instruments were all pointed at this event. Where is all the data?
AgentP wrote:Is it a glare effect, as others have said, or is it an electrical discharge?


Unknown. But probably lens flare. However data gathered may reveal the truth.

User avatar
CosmicLettuce
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:09 am
Contact:

Re: Comet Siding-Springs Mars Flyby

Unread post by CosmicLettuce » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:35 am

Patience, friends.

Once the data starts coming in, I further suggest a high level of discernment. Look for what the data is telling you, not what you wish the data to tell you.

I know first-hand how difficult it is to obtain scientifically valuable data under normal, controlled circumstances like in an observatory. With regards to data collected by spacecraft/rovers at/on Mars, it's obvious to me that these devices and instruments were not designed to track and image a comet zooming overhead and I'd think nearly impossible to get data of any scientific value. If not for careful planning and foresight, it looks like they would have missed the close approach altogether! From their press release:

"These closest-approach images were made possible due to very precise pointing and slewing of the MRO spacecraft by engineers at Lockheed-Martin in Denver, based on comet position calculations by engineers at JPL. HiRISE acquired three images 12 days before closest approach, when the comet was barely detectable above the “noise level” of the images. These early images showed the comet was not quite at its predicted location! This new viewing angle on the comet was used to update its predicted location and timing at closest approach. Without this update, the comet may have been outside the HiRISE image area in the best images."

A "pretty picture" (or even an ugly one) that most of you are probably waiting for doesn't measure up to my standards. I'd much rather see nothing than see crappy data.

The attempt at Mars was made to do as good as they could. I've heard from several online sources that data was obtained. I can only assume at this point that the raw data and calibration data is in hand and that data is being reduced at this moment. I look forward to hearing and reading all of the interpretations of the data. I look forward orders of magnitude more when all of the data is released so those of us who can, will take a look at this data and present our own interpretations.

A question just popped into my head that might need to go elsewhere on the forum, but I'll present it here:

MRO, for example, had three primary goals: 1) studying the history of water on Mars, 2) looking at small-scale features, and 3) establish a powerful communications and navigation link. So nothing about comets. So when comet data is obtained, who actually owns that data? Well, of course ultimately in most cultures the owners are the ones who paid for it, which is usually the citizens through taxation. But fine, the PI's that built the instruments have put a lot of time and effort into it and so in a certain way I agree that they should have "first dibs". But this is sort of an unusual circumstance because data from a comet is NOT data from Mars and therefore doesn't fall under the jurisdiction of the MRO mission. So just because they're collecting the data, does the MRO team have ownership of this data? Shall they do with it what they want? Shall they withhold it from the citizens who actually own this data? Anyhow, sort of an unusual situation and maybe a topic to discuss elsewhere on the forum.

Getting back to Siding Spring -- IMO, the images that have just been put out by HiRISE are scientifically useless and tell me nothing (a jpeg image with arbitrary brightness/contrast settings is laughable). But they were probably feeling pressure to "put something out there" since PR seems to be the #1 myopic priority of NASA. If these are actually "the best HiRISE images of the comet" (NASA's quote) then indeed humanity has missed out on an exciting and beautiful event. Not that I expect to see any soon, but I'm also looking forward to the spectral data that was (hopefully) obtained.

Observing a "discharge event" or any other transient event would indeed be an incredibly lucky thing to see. I'd expect such an event would take place in seconds, not minutes or hours. There are no cameras on or around Mars that record at video rates (which is what I'd expect would be needed to record a transient event) so even if it did happen, we may never know. I guess one thing to look for in the coming weeks/months/years is any images from HiRISE show any kind of "new" features on Mars on the hemisphere that was facing the comet at close encounter.

Peace, CL
"Nothing is rich but the inexhaustible wealth of nature. She shows us only surfaces, but she is a million fathoms deep" - Emerson

http://astroandmusic.blogspot.com/

User avatar
viscount aero
Posts: 2381
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 11:23 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California
Contact:

Re: Comet Siding-Springs Mars Flyby

Unread post by viscount aero » Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:46 am

CosmicLettuce wrote:Patience, friends.

Once the data starts coming in, I further suggest a high level of discernment. Look for what the data is telling you, not what you wish the data to tell you.

I know first-hand how difficult it is to obtain scientifically valuable data under normal, controlled circumstances like in an observatory. With regards to data collected by spacecraft/rovers at/on Mars, it's obvious to me that these devices and instruments were not designed to track and image a comet zooming overhead and I'd think nearly impossible to get data of any scientific value. If not for careful planning and foresight, it looks like they would have missed the close approach altogether!

Peace, CL
Yes I agree with you. We must wait for the data to be collated and it may take weeks or months for this to happen. The instruments were adapted at the last minute to record an event they were not designed for. So any coherent picture fro the data may be challenging to obtain. They did the best they could.

About possession/jurisdiction of the data: By the law, possession is 90% of the law. So yes, they own it in an ultimate sense. Although NASA is allegedly "public domain."

These are NASA's image use guidelines:
http://pmm.nasa.gov/node/296

User avatar
AgentP
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 8:06 am
Location: New England

Re: Comet Siding-Springs Mars Flyby

Unread post by AgentP » Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:04 pm

Just for fun I looked this up. How much hardware was aimed at Mars for this event?

http://www.nasa.gov/press/2014/october/ ... encounter/

1 BOPPS, sub-orbital balloon
2 Infrared Telescope Facility
3 Mars Recon. Orbiter
4 Mars Odyssey
5 ESA's Mars Express
6 MAVEN
7 Opportunity Rover
8 Curiosity Rover
9 Hubble
10 Swift
11 STEREO
12 SOHO
13 NeoWISE
14 Spitzer
15 Kepler
16 Chandra

...so there should be plenty of data! Although as mentioned maybe some of this data won't be very good?
:)
"...a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy..."

Frantic
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:49 am

Re: Final Piece to the Electric Comet Puzzle?

Unread post by Frantic » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:32 pm

Ok everyone check this out. They have found a large number of comets, or signatures of. It is a "young" solar system with a gas giant bordering on the size of a star, and the fastest spinning planet known yet.

They are taking comets as evidence of planet accretion from these icey snowballs.

:(

http://www.space.com/27509-comets-aroun ... ne+Feed%29

http://www.space.com/27508-exocomets-fl ... ne+Feed%29
The first group of exocomets generated relatively low amounts of gas and dust, suggesting they're old enough to have mostly exhausted their supplies of ice during multiple passages close to their star. The shape and orientation of their orbits vary, but a giant planet seems to gravitationally influence all of them.
The second family of exocomets generates far more gas and dust. These comets are also on nearly identical orbits to one another, suggesting they all have the same origin, probably as remnants of one or more larger icy objects that might have grazed the star Beta Pictoris. This makes the comets similar to the fragments of Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9, which collided spectacularly with Jupiter in 1994.

Rossim
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:46 am

Re: Final Piece to the Electric Comet Puzzle?

Unread post by Rossim » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:22 pm

I've stopped paying any attention to these indirect observations of "icy snowballs" since we're amidst the greatest opportunity to directly observe comets with Rosetta. Once the evidence points away from comets as icy objects all of these snowball stories will crumble.

User avatar
viscount aero
Posts: 2381
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 11:23 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California
Contact:

Re: Final Piece to the Electric Comet Puzzle?

Unread post by viscount aero » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:31 pm

Frantic wrote:Ok everyone check this out. They have found a large number of comets, or signatures of. It is a "young" solar system with a gas giant bordering on the size of a star, and the fastest spinning planet known yet.

They are taking comets as evidence of planet accretion from these icey snowballs.

:(

http://www.space.com/27509-comets-aroun ... ne+Feed%29

http://www.space.com/27508-exocomets-fl ... ne+Feed%29
The first group of exocomets generated relatively low amounts of gas and dust, suggesting they're old enough to have mostly exhausted their supplies of ice during multiple passages close to their star. The shape and orientation of their orbits vary, but a giant planet seems to gravitationally influence all of them.
The second family of exocomets generates far more gas and dust. These comets are also on nearly identical orbits to one another, suggesting they all have the same origin, probably as remnants of one or more larger icy objects that might have grazed the star Beta Pictoris. This makes the comets similar to the fragments of Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9, which collided spectacularly with Jupiter in 1994.
This is more misinformation tabloid reporting in my opinion. Saying things like:

"The best look yet at nearly 500 comets around a distant star reveals these alien snowballs come in very different flavors, just like comets around the sun, researchers say."

"Alien snowballs" just like comets around our Sun? Really? :lol: :roll:

"...suggesting they all have the same origin, probably as remnants of one or more larger icy objects that might have grazed the star Beta Pictoris" is silly.

They're encountering the most thorough cometary mission ever staged, the Rosetta Mission, and it's not icy. Yet they continue calling comets icy? Who keeps telling these people to report this kind of information?

Frantic
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:49 am

Re: Final Piece to the Electric Comet Puzzle?

Unread post by Frantic » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:39 pm

I think space.com is a good way to gauge popular opinion on science. Like any tabloid they publish what sells, and they sell it hard, they exaggerate and over-speculate on everything.

I assume those truly doing scientific research do not believe these articles or at least know that it is "bad" science. But I think it is a good representation of what the majority of the population thinks about science and it fuels and grows there imaginations, their artist representations are so much better to look at than pixelated data for the average person. Pictures like what Rosetta is capturing will bring the excitement of artist renderings to reality.

User avatar
viscount aero
Posts: 2381
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 11:23 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California
Contact:

Re: Final Piece to the Electric Comet Puzzle?

Unread post by viscount aero » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:49 pm

Frantic wrote:I think space.com is a good way to gauge popular opinion on science. Like any tabloid they publish what sells, and they sell it hard, they exaggerate and over-speculate on everything.
Yes.
Frantic wrote:I assume those truly doing scientific research do not believe these articles or at least know that it is "bad" science. But I think it is a good representation of what the majority of the population thinks about science and it fuels and grows there imaginations,
Sort of. It is the negligence and fantasy reporting of space.com that misleads the population into being uneducated. It is harmful.
Frantic wrote:their artist representations are so much better to look at than pixelated data for the average person. Pictures like what Rosetta is capturing will bring the excitement of artist renderings to reality.
Yes.

beekeeper
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:53 pm

Explosion on Mars

Unread post by beekeeper » Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:10 pm

Wondering if anyone seen this one. Comet passing close to Mars www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sx3WdyOihH8.
That is the link to the video highly interesting from EU perspective regards Beekeeper
If nothing can travel faster than light, how can darkness escape it

beekeeper
Posts: 141
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:53 pm

Re: Explosion on Mars

Unread post by beekeeper » Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:15 pm

Greetings again EU pilgrims, this video was taken by a Dr Fritz Helmut Hemmerich does anyone have info on this Dr?
I checked the nasa site they have nothing on this.
If nothing can travel faster than light, how can darkness escape it

User avatar
viscount aero
Posts: 2381
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 11:23 pm
Location: Los Angeles, California
Contact:

Re: Explosion on Mars

Unread post by viscount aero » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:29 pm

This was already posted: http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... 8&start=15

The meme going around is of course 'lens flare." As I watched it again, however, in slo-motion it doesn't look like lens flare to me :( It looks more like a CME (discharge) type of event that you would see on the Sun. And really the more I view the slo-mo version of the video the less and less this makes sense as lens flare as it's not a type of viewing situation that would impart it.

So that brings up an entire range of ideas of who, what, when, where, why is it being downplayed and ignored if it is an explosion? The question is rhetorical ;)

Moderators perhaps merge this thread with the original one.

User avatar
Bomb20
Posts: 176
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:16 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Comet Siding-Springs Mars Flyby

Unread post by Bomb20 » Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:22 am

Hello beekeeper,

I think he is the following German Dr. med.:

http://www.centro-eridanos.com/team.html

In this lecture he is also talking about magnetic fields to illustrate his position:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxQ1dowbkd4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPdQye6Rho0

So, I think he has no connection to NASA etc.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests