Help Us Explain Crater Formation!

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Re: Electrical Cratering on Levitating Spheres

Unread postby D_Archer » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:20 am

I dont think it has been done, but i think someone should.

Maybe Billy Yelverton could do this.

Regards,
Daniel
- Shoot Forth Thunder -
User avatar
D_Archer
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:01 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Electrical Cratering on Levitating Spheres

Unread postby The Great Dog » Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:22 am

cj@vemasat.com

Cj Ransom (PhD nuclear physics) performed hundreds (if not thousands) of discharge experiments. As far as a source for information about discharges to a variety of surfaces, he is THE man.

TGD
User avatar
The Great Dog
 
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:58 pm


Re: Electrical Cratering on Levitating Spheres

Unread postby D_Archer » Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:35 am

The Great Dog wrote:cj@vemasat.com

Cj Ransom (PhD nuclear physics) performed hundreds (if not thousands) of discharge experiments. As far as a source for information about discharges to a variety of surfaces, he is THE man.

TGD


Yes, but all these discharge experiments are to flat surfaces and mostly (i assume) under atmosphere...

The proposition is to discharge to a coated (with dust/sand/rock anything) levitating sphere in a vacuum.

Regards,
Daniel
- Shoot Forth Thunder -
User avatar
D_Archer
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:01 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Electrical Cratering on Levitating Spheres

Unread postby +EyeOn-W-ANeed2Know » Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:22 am

Lee's prototype ZeroN is a small metal orb floating in free space that users can manipulate by moving around and placing in midair. Suspended by a highly tuned electromagnetic field, the orb really does seem to levitate, and the degree to which the system keeps the ball stable even as it is moved around on all three axes is pretty mind-blowing. The ball floats until it is moved, and when placed in a point in space it stays there.


Yes, the ZeroN is cool enough that the effect is now employed in a number of children's toys such as Monster High's new "Astronova" doll & her "Boo York, Boo York Floatation Station".

However, I imagine there's likely to be some monumental issues trying to combine the discharges such as those used by Ransom or Yelverton and the "Highly tuned EM field" of a ZeroN type device.
+EyeOn-W-ANeed2Know
 
Posts: 159
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:41 pm

Re: Electrical Cratering on Levitating Spheres

Unread postby Bomb20 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:02 pm

In the video The Lightning Scarred Planet Mars a simple discharge experiment is shown at 46:40 min. I think it could be improved and extended step by step. So, the composition of the sphere could be changed and e.g. an outer layer of rocky material added. Then one could add a vacuum chamber and some plasma. Next step could be a the introduction of electromagnetic levitation. And finally electric exchanges between different spheres could be tried. Sounds not very easy to me but I think there are experienced designers of experiments out there. Is there anybody with more detailed and target leading ideas here?
User avatar
Bomb20
 
Posts: 173
Joined: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:16 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Help Us Explain Crater Formation!

Unread postby jone dae » Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:21 am

KingCrater5.jpg
King Crater

This photograph shows King Crater on the Moon's far side. King Crater is 77 kilometers (47.85 miles) in diameter and more than 5 kilometers (3.1 miles) deep. This is a complex crater with a central peak. The inside of the crater rim contains a series of terraces and slump blocks. (credit: NASA) http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/multimedia/display.cfm?IM_ID=794
KingCrater5.jpg (24.28 KiB) Viewed 2020 times
Hello Scientists,
A few years ago, MattEU posted here a link to a webpage, which showed "the surprising things about gravity and crater sizes. there are also some other things it mentions that are eye openers.", but then said that " i cant be bothered to copy them to here as its all ready written.". In our work, we have found that it is a bad habit for anyone to assume that any webpage will always be there. Had he posted some of that here in this forum, it would still he here now. So, my contribution today is to help with this. Meteors and crater formation are again current topics in TBolts and the EU sciences. They were mentioned in the recent TBolts newsletter dated March 12, 2016.
So, first of all, here is a link to where the original webpage can still be found: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20120317 ... raters.asp .

Secondly, here are some excerpts from that page:

"Impact craters are one of the most obvious landforms on the terrestrial planets and their satellites in the Solar System. On Earth, despite the presence of active erosional and tectonic recycling processes, about 150 impact craters are known."

" However, not all of the complex crater features appear at the same diameter. Therefore the transition diameter is often expressed as the geometric mean, Dt, of several diameter values at which particular morphological features, such as central uplifts and terraced walls, appear. Studies on Martian craters indicate that the first complex features to appear are a flat floor, a central peak and a low d/D ratio.

Interestingly, the Dt values for Earth (3.1 km) and the Moon (18.7 km) differ by a factor of six, which is exactly the ratio of their values of g. In addition, complex craters on the Moon are on average six times deeper than on Earth.

Despite the importance of gravity, the lithology of the target area influences the value of Dt as well. This is best established for terrestrial craters of course, giving a simple-to-complex crater transition diameter of 2.25 km for sedimentary rocks and 4.75 km for crystalline rocks. It is thought that at least three (interrelated) target properties influence the shape of the final crater: rock strength, stratification and volatile content. An impact of a given energy will excavate a larger cavity in soft rocks, while there is evidence that complex craters develop more readily in stratified rocks. "


"The largest impact craters form small basins containing a series of multiple concentric ridges, and they seem to come in two basic types. The classic basin is Orientale on the Moon, which features at least five circular rings that form inward-facing scarps up to 6 km high. The second type is the Valhalla structure on the Jovian moon Callisto. This multi-ring basin consists of a bright central patch surrounded by a system of concentric ridges. These ridges are surrounded by dozens of grabens that may extend thousands of kilometers from the impact point. On Earth, the 65 Ma, 180 km diameter Chicxulub crater in Mexico is one of the few examples positively identified as a multi-ring basin. These basins are thought to form as a tectonic response of the target’s lithosphere the the crater formed by the impact, and indicates the presence of a low-viscosity or low-strength layer below the surface. The transition between peak or peak ring craters and rimmed basins on different bodies does not relate to the surface gravity of the body, but seems to depend a great deal on the rheological properties near the surface, in particular the presence of a weak subsurface layer which can flow on the timescale of the crater collapse. However, the formation of these basins is still not very well understood. "

The writer (Paul De Schutter) gives these references on the page: " H. J. Melosh and B. A. Ivanov Impact Crater Collapse, Annu. Rev. Earth Planet Sci. 27 (1999) pp. 385-415

R. J. Pike Control of crater morphology by gravity and target type: Mars, Earth, Moon, Proc. Lunar Planet. Sci. Conf. 11th (1980) pp. 2159-2189 "

attached is a photo from the page. Archive.org has thankfully, saved other pages from that site. You might also find this page interesting: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20120315 ... sp#surface.

-Dr. Jone Dae
User avatar
jone dae
 
Posts: 95
Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:47 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Help Us Explain Crater Formation!

Unread postby dahlenaz » Tue Mar 15, 2016 4:32 pm

The crater on this bead of welding-spatter should raise questions about
the various claims for the cause features on at least one celestial body. d..z

...
Attachments
mltn-dnmc114450cs.jpg
Crater on welding-spatter bead
User avatar
dahlenaz
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:58 am
Location: SD Arizona

Re: Help Us Explain Crater Formation!

Unread postby Cargo » Tue Mar 15, 2016 9:48 pm

jone dae wrote:Despite the importance of gravity, the lithology of the target area influences the value of Dt as well. This is best established for terrestrial craters of course, giving a simple-to-complex crater transition diameter of 2.25 km for sedimentary rocks and 4.75 km for crystalline rocks. It is thought that at least three (interrelated) target properties influence the shape of the final crater: rock strength, stratification and volatile content. An impact


And in here lies the problem. Only two sources are considered. Gravity and Impacts. And a larger problem is the assumption that supposed Impact events between different planets can some how be correlated to random celestial objects in their source. iow, how you can possible compare them? You simple assume that the impact crater on two planets millions to billions of kilometers apart where struck by the same type of weapon.

The only way you can compare craters on two celestially different bodies is to assume a common source.

What do you think is common sense as that point, I leave to you. Gravity, Impacts, or ?
Cargo
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:02 pm

Re: Help Us Explain Crater Formation!

Unread postby D_Archer » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:21 am

dahlenaz wrote:The crater on this bead of welding-spatter should raise questions about
the various claims for the cause features on at least one celestial body. d..z

...


Mimas !

Regards,
Daniel
- Shoot Forth Thunder -
User avatar
D_Archer
 
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:01 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Help Us Explain Crater Formation!

Unread postby dahlenaz » Wed Mar 16, 2016 9:32 am

D_Archer wrote:
dahlenaz wrote:The crater on this bead of welding-spatter should raise questions about
the various claims for the cause features on at least one celestial body. d..z

...


Mimas !

Regards,
Daniel


The absense of a central peak spoiled an exact match, but being overly-large
by comparison to the body size is a point not to be missed.
I will post some other variations if people haven't already looked closely
at this source of examples for surface features, molten-dynamics and fly-away unions.

Another bead seems to have a central peak in a crater. d..z

...
Attachments
mltn-dyn-cntrl-peak114450cs.jpg
Maybe like Mimas, possible central peak
User avatar
dahlenaz
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:58 am
Location: SD Arizona

Re: Help Us Explain Crater Formation!

Unread postby comingfrom » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:14 am

dahlenaz wrote:... and fly-away unions

I immediately thought of lobed comets.
User avatar
comingfrom
 
Posts: 759
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:11 pm
Location: NSW, Australia

Re: Help Us Explain Crater Formation!

Unread postby dahlenaz » Thu Mar 17, 2016 8:31 am

comingfrom wrote:
dahlenaz wrote:... and fly-away unions

I immediately thought of lobed comets.


Yes sir,, There are a wide variety of fly-away-union objects in the sample from this session.
A real odd shaped on in the first image and Two common shapes in the second image. d..z

...
fau114450tc-cs65.jpg
odd shaped FAU-object
fau114450-cs45.jpg
Two common shapes of FAU-object
User avatar
dahlenaz
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:58 am
Location: SD Arizona

Re: Help Us Explain Crater Formation!

Unread postby seasmith » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:33 pm

~~
Dahlenaz wrote:
fly-away unions


I like it. Have you just coined a new term for a not well understood electric phenomenon
?
seasmith
 
Posts: 2646
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:59 pm

Re: Help Us Explain Crater Formation!

Unread postby dahlenaz » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:14 pm

seasmith wrote:~~
Dahlenaz wrote:
fly-away unions


I like it. Have you just coined a new term for a not well understood electric phenomenon
?


Assigning these result to electric phenomenon may not be entirely accurate since
these objects form as molten material well separated from the active electrical environment.
Molten dynamics, surface tension and magnatism seem to be the principle forces involved.

There may be a better way to describe the scenario in a few words or less,
but that was what came to mind at the time...
It should probably be written as "flyaway-uniting-objects" or something similar.

The probability of such events was seen during collision experiments with foam balls
hitting a polymer sphere.. In a few instances, material would become dislodged and depart
at different rates of speed and have such dramatic differences that one object could strike
the other with sufficient force to cause significant distortion or alteration to colliding bodies,
such as is seen at comet 67p-C-G. Youtube video's at channel: dahlenaz07
There are some FAU objects which might compare well with 67p-C-G, except for the flattened
side of the larger lobe.. Closer examination of a greater set of samples might provide an exact match.

Variations have possibly expanded into objects with equatorial ridges.
d..z

...
Attachments
equatorial-ridge-c.jpg
Possible equatorial ridge
User avatar
dahlenaz
 
Posts: 461
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:58 am
Location: SD Arizona

PreviousNext

Return to Electric Universe - Planetary Science

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests