The Lightning-Scarred Planet Mars

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Arc welding and electric erosion on Mars

Unread postby gamblix » Sat May 18, 2013 7:21 am

After looking at those beautiful HiRES anaglyphs provided by http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/anaglyph/ I spotted a certain pattern.

First, there are a lot of perfectly conical hills - even conical mountains - on Mars (misinterpreted as pyramids in earlier days)
Second, these hills are often arranged in circles
Third, craters are often arranged in circles and
Fourth, there are locations, where either craters are located around conical hills, or conical hills are arranged around craters.
Fifth, the flanks of the hills are very steep, the craters are often very shallow
Sixth, the considered craters are often located in mountainous places and more often than not look like hills having been ablated or carved out.
Seventh, a lot of circular feats look like trunks of former conical hills
Eighth, very often, conical hills are surrounded by grooves and rims giving the impression of conical clowns hat

More often one can find a single crater besides one conical hill.

I sifted through those HiRES images for several weeks and suddenly that pattern struck me and I named the examples I saved like "Pluspol und Minuspol ..." I don't think I have to translate that ;)

When looking at those pictures again, I thought, well, I know what electric erosion looks like and how it works but why should there be conical hills besides those craters? Are they really composed of material from the crater?

Those pair of crater and hills look like some sort of excavator had dug a hole on one side and piled the rubble on the other side.

If you watch electric erosion in action (as a tool) you don't see material piled up anywhere near the "hole". The carved out material just vanishes in sparks and finally fills the air with fine grains of rust. So why on Mars should that be different on the red planet?

I put that question aside and started watching movies from the multimedia section on thunderbolts.info until I heard the term electric welding. I just needed the words to recognise a two way mechanism on Mars.

Those pairs of craters/hills or these patterns of craters surrounding hills and vice versa are not accidential. If anyone can explain to me why electrons should rise from the surface of Mars and move in form of an arc back to the surface again I'll be very happy. Because the mechanism I imagined was an electric discharge rising from one spot, causing abrasion and then carrying the material to another location piling it up like with electric welding.

But I have problems with that image.
Firstly, we don't deal with steel but hard minerals which most of the time are insolators not conductors.
Secondly, why on a flat surface of rocky material should there be an electric discharge at all?
Thirdly, the scraped charged material is dust and rubble, not a fluid. Why should that pile up as neatly as one can observe on Mars. It is very hard to find an image of paired craters/cone hills with debris lying around - I can't remember a single one. They really look like either cut out or piled up by a precise machinery leaving no filings at all.

Look, we have power grids with one power line and all electric loads either directly or indirectly grounded. The ground is the second line to complete the full circuit. Man is pushing a lot of electric potential around in the soil. Why don't we have spontaneous electric discharges jumping around on Earth? If the sun provides Mars with electrons every moment, they are very smoothly and evenly distributed. Why should those electrons jump out of the surface like a swarm of penguins? In other words: How come those plus poles and minus poles into existence?

Think of a static charged balloon. There won't be any discharges as long as you don't move anything close. There won't be no spontaneous discharges from one location on the balloon to another.

Mars is like that charged balloon except beeing very much bigger. That Mars balloon gets charged by the solar wind evenly. Why should the balloon Mars show those discharge feats?

I don't doubt the electric theory. To the contrary. The longer I look at the martian surface feats, the more I am convinced that no geological erosion ever took place on Mars. On Mars you have to invent a marsology. Geology just won't help.

The two problems I have is the cause of discharge and the overwhelming abundance of landscape on Mars which shows features of electric erosion in unbelievable density. And most other structures can't be explained by any sort of known geological erosion anyway - although exogeologists try hard.

Please, can anyone explain to me why on Mars these overabundance of powerfull charge displacements occured to create all of those weldings and carvings?

I don't speak of those big feats like Valles Marineris, Olympus Mons or the very big hole on the opposite site of Olympus Mons which have been created by thunderbolts flashing to and from another celestial body. I mean the millions of patters at any scale down to a range of centimeters. Rilles, grabens, pseudo strata, incisions, boreholes, flat circles, circling craters, circling conical hills, carvings, millings, pairs of caters/hills, rectangular shapes, triangular shapes, straight mile long walls, parallel grooves and much more - I'm just empty of words.

And it gets even worse. Vast regions are covered by so called dunes. But looking closely on can see that those dunes look more like shark teeth than dunes.
There are vast regions covered with hills which look like sailing boats close to close.
There are regions which are covered by conical hills and most of them have a crater instead of a top.
There are other regions covered with alien eggs - most of them are open. No, seriously. They are hills or mountains with feats on their side which look like seams plus a hole atop which gives them the appearence of an open alien egg :-).
There are regions filled with mountains looking like one of those counter bells with the knob missing. Very smooth shaped, round and symmetrical, often with a depression on top. Unlike those conical hills they are much more flat and of white appearance in contrast to the dark surroundings.
There are locations full of rectangular "craters". They look like rice fields from above and have been misinterpreted as martian cities earlier.
There are regions of steep mountain ridges and very flat grabens in between - a lot of them like ripples in the sand and the ridges all look like they'd been cut out yesterday.
There are regions which look like plaster art and other regions which look like woodcut
And there are regions which unite all of those features.

One thing do all these features and structures have in common. No debris, no rubble, no chippings, no filings. The removed material has either been piled up and cemented elsewhere or turned to dust and blown away.

(If my typos and wordings make you smile, great. You may use 'em, too.)
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Re: Arc welding and electric erosion on Mars

Unread postby Sparky » Thu May 23, 2013 3:17 pm

First of all, how do I find out which glasses to get to see 3D? They seem to come in different color lenses and reversed colors? :?

Maybe If you narrowed the focus to one or two images to allow discussion on more specific formations? :?

some TPODS: http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2012/12 ... ic-augers/

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2012/12 ... ic-plates/

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2012/12 ... discharge/

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2012/11 ... sculpting/

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2012/11 ... aboratory/

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2012/10 ... s-on-mars/

:D
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Re: Arc welding and electric erosion on Mars

Unread postby gamblix » Sun May 26, 2013 12:44 pm

@Sparky

the HiRISE images use red/cyan coding.

The images one should examine are located here: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/anaglyph/. If you click on one of the images in that catalog page, you get to another page displaying a picture of a small enlarged clipping of a very big image one can find on that page under "Image Products" labeled as "Full resolution JPEG2000". Those are very large images, indeed - up to 700 MB plus.

To study those images it is highly recommended to use the software which is provided at http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/hiview/.
Using that software enables you to see the whole image at a glance without having to wait a long span of time. If you spot anything interesting you can zoom in easily and look at the very details. While looking at that portion of the image quality will get better and better while the immediate surrounding area of the big images is beeing loaded into a cache on your hard disk.
That mechanism makes moving around at high resolution very convenient. The only disadvantage is that your computer has to have a modern multi core gpu in order to get the results fast and smoothly.

Two images of pairs of hill and depression or circular abrasion feature: http://juergenkieser.wordpress.com/2013 ... n-surface/
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Re: Arc welding and electric erosion on Mars

Unread postby Sparky » Sun May 26, 2013 3:56 pm

Thanks for all the info....,,,,I'll work on getting some glasses... ;)

I don't know why the depression and hill are near each other.

We can't assume that the same event and time frame created them both, can we.?

thanks
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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Re: Arc welding and electric erosion on Mars

Unread postby seasmith » Sun May 26, 2013 5:10 pm

We can't assume that the same event and time frame created them both, can we.?
-Sparky


Except for their reverse symmetry and size similarity.
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Re: Arc welding and electric erosion on Mars

Unread postby gamblix » Mon May 27, 2013 11:12 am

Looking at the clouds or a certain texture at the wall will result finally in recognising a certain pattern, whatsoever.

But there's a difference in seeing a known contour into a texture or realizing a pattern whilst sifting throught thousands of images.

Staring at one point of a structure drives our concience to finally find something familiar. Browsing through images instead creates a pattern in our subconsciousness which will finally surface to our conscience and we suddenly "see" that pattern.

That's the way we all learn our mother's languages at first. If I'd stared at on image only, I wouldn't have mentioned anything ;-)

I just wanted to encourage all of you interested in "Electric Scarring of Planets" to look for yourself. It's absolutely amazing to scan the Martian surface, looking at all of those different structures, while asking yourself how they might have been created.

While contemplating on those images I allways tried to imagine geological processes at work and most of the time failed to find the mechanismns of weathering, flooding, lava flowing, earth quakes etc. convincing.

Don't get me wrong. There are features looking like landslides. There are features looking like hardened lava streams. There are features looking like cracks and meteorite craters with debris all around them. And I leave it at that.
But on the other hand there are a lot more structures which don't look like anything one can find while browsing the surface of our planet with "Google Earth".

But, maybe, I am just hallucinating - therefore you should look for yourself.

If only I knew how to share those 1500 images with you :D

Btw, meteora (gr.) = wind; litos (gr.) = stone. Meteorit(e) = wind-stone. Meteor is just short for meteorite.
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Re: Arc welding and electric erosion on Mars

Unread postby Sparky » Mon May 27, 2013 1:46 pm

sea-:
Except for their reverse symmetry and size similarity.


:? Are you implying that a direct electrical connection between the two formations account for their "size and reverse symmetry ? :?

How would that look or come about during the big discharge event? :?

Would it be akin to leakage current or something like what we see on the sun? :?
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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Re: Zeus' Nestling

Unread postby ddaveo » Tue May 28, 2013 8:57 am

From the New Scientist link:

The team also suggests that electrostatic forces could help keep the egg soft-boiled. Electrons in Saturn's radiation belt could be charging ice crystals on the surface, levitating them and making them more mobile. But so far these are just speculations.


So now electricity is important in space?
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Re: Arc welding and electric erosion on Mars

Unread postby seasmith » Thu May 30, 2013 8:17 pm

Would it be akin to leakage current or something like what we see on the sun?


Sparky,

I'm thinking the magnetic hoops spanning adjacent sun spots might be a relevant model, but it's just a thought
...
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Re: Arc welding and electric erosion on Mars

Unread postby dahlenaz » Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:23 am

From CRT experiments, 2007-10, during electro-dynamic interaction between adjacent areas
of a partially covered CRT, the relocation of dusty material gave results like what you are speaking of here.
The interactions were initiated by the close proximity of a charged object and material transfer via
electric wind was observed. Repeatedly, in the dusty CRT experiments, low-current interactions formed domes,
ridges, craters and other varied features.
Planetary surfaces should to be regarded as a-symetrically solar-energized surfaces
covered in dust which is suseptible to outside influences to cause localized interactions
between regions of different 'electrostatic' potential.
High current interactions are too violent to produce some of the features seen, so the
arc-welding scenario should not be applied to the evaluation of all surface features... d...z

Image
http://para-az.com/e_wind_2009s165.jpg

http://para-az.com/larger_image.html

...
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Re: Arc welding and electric erosion on Mars

Unread postby seasmith » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:56 pm

...electro-dynamic interaction between adjacent areas...



Strings of sun tornadoes, time-lapse:


http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/11/sun-tornadoes-solar-nasa_n_3419538.html
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Re: Arc welding and electric erosion on Mars

Unread postby starbiter » Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:22 pm

The link below looks like gouge welding. The bottom image especially.

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/figure ... 0_fig1.jpg

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/spaceimages/det ... d=pia17260

http://www.twi.co.uk/technical-knowledg ... uging-012/

NASA claims the rilles are seasonal.

The link below is from the dune thread.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2780&p=85305#p85305

michael
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Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

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Re: Arc welding and electric erosion on Mars

Unread postby seasmith » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:39 pm

Starbiter,

Those rilles, and many other Mars anomolies were pretty extensively covered here (from 2008 on):

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=232

if the forum would like to keep common topics in a conducive global search form,
for the public and newbies
:)
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Re: Arc welding and electric erosion on Mars

Unread postby starbiter » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:05 pm

seasmith wrote:Starbiter,

Those rilles, and many other Mars anomolies were pretty extensively covered here (from 2008 on):

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=232

if the forum would like to keep common topics in a conducive global search form,
for the public and newbies
:)



Seasmith,

I don't have a spare few hours right now. Glad You enjoyed my post.

michael
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Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

www.EU-geology.com

http://www.michaelsteinbacher.com
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Re: Arc welding and electric erosion on Mars

Unread postby dahlenaz » Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:22 pm

With reference to the dry ice-formed troughs,, the experiment with dryice sleds has me
convinced that the cause is not electrical..
There are many details about the features at Russel Crater and Matara Crater which
are a stretch for the electric theory and the dryice-sled theory easily accounts for the scallops,
the pitts, the dog-legs, the humps and the side trails,, which may be fragment paths..

My hat is tipped to the JPL group and Serina Diniega for their innovative scientific method.
I hope they chare more of their photos, cause they'll should be real helpful. d...z

...
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