The Lightning-Scarred Planet Mars

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Type of close encounter to cause Valles Marineris on Mar

Unread postby Aardwolf » Fri May 16, 2014 8:39 am

viscount aero wrote:The process for global excavation is unknown. It may not have happened. But the hemispheres of Mars present a picture of two different planets in one. The north nearly doesn't resemble whatsoever the southern hemisphere in appearance or in general height above the baseline. It is as if most of the planet's cratering has been removed from the northern hemisphere.

This presents a problem for EU actually. The southern hemisphere is heavily cratered. Therefore IF the northern plains were once covered with craters then "crater dating" is to some extent a valid dating method--relative to adjacent terrain. It would mean that the southern hemisphere's surface is older than the north.

This leads to the big question as to why. And how did this process happen?
Possibly the same reason Earth's continents are older than the oceans? Expansion. Look at the topographical map below. Smoother is generally equal to lower. Valles Marineris might just be a stretch mark like the Red Sea Rift.

Image
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Re: Type of close encounter to cause Valles Marineris on Mar

Unread postby dougettinger » Sun May 18, 2014 3:45 pm

Hello Aardwolf and other experts on plasma discharges on Mars,

Aardwolf wrote:
viscount aero wrote:The process for global excavation is unknown. It may not have happened. But the hemispheres of Mars present a picture of two different planets in one. The north nearly doesn't resemble whatsoever the southern hemisphere in appearance or in general height above the baseline. It is as if most of the planet's cratering has been removed from the northern hemisphere.

This presents a problem for EU actually. The southern hemisphere is heavily cratered. Therefore IF the northern plains were once covered with craters then "crater dating" is to some extent a valid dating method--relative to adjacent terrain. It would mean that the southern hemisphere's surface is older than the north.

This leads to the big question as to why. And how did this process happen?
Possibly the same reason Earth's continents are older than the oceans? Expansion. Look at the topographical map below. Smoother is generally equal to lower. Valles Marineris might just be a stretch mark like the Red Sea Rift.

Image


I am suggesting the smooth surfaces were due to electric arcing at close range between the cathode planet and the anode cosmic body. Arcing to produce Valles Marinersis happened at another time when the separation distance was much greater. Do any types of plasma discharges in the lab produce a peeling of the surface to generate a smooth surface as is seen on the one Martian hemisphere?

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Re: Type of close encounter to cause Valles Marineris on Mar

Unread postby Sparky » Mon May 19, 2014 7:34 am

"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
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Re: Type of close encounter to cause Valles Marineris on Mar

Unread postby Bomb20 » Mon May 19, 2014 11:45 am

Do any types of plasma discharges in the lab produce a peeling of the surface to generate a smooth surface as is seen on the one Martian hemisphere?

Sorry, I have not enough time to provide a list but one can find an awful number of Plasma and Corona surface treatment technologies by Google and cleaning and smoothing of surfaces are most common procedures in industrial applications. So, smooth surfaces are not uncommon - but mostly they are cratered as well (only on a more little scale).
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Re: Type of close encounter to cause Valles Marineris on Mar

Unread postby dougettinger » Tue May 20, 2014 6:16 am

Thank you Sparky and Bomb20 for your research,

I am suggesting the smooth surfaces were due to electric arcing at close range between the cathode planet and the anode cosmic body. Arcing to produce Valles Marinersis happened at another time when the separation distance was much greater. Do any types of plasma discharges in the lab produce a peeling of the surface to generate a smooth surface as is seen on the one Martian hemisphere? by Doug Ettinger

Sparky has provided a reference to magnetic abrasive finishing (MAF) that may have created the scoured lower hemisphere on Mars but on a much larger scale. A very magnetic red or brown dwarf star could have had a very close encounter with Mars and created this Martian anomaly. On another close encounter but at a larger distance a more directed plasma discharge could have created Valles Marinersis.

A diagram of the manufacturing set-up of a typical MAF reveals the main components. I will attempt to compare these components with the process that created the scoured hemisphere on Mars. The robot arm represents the spinning Martian surface with the temporary matching of close orbital paths of Mars and a very magnetic, highly charged celestial body. The magnetic workpiece holder represents the destroyed magnetic field of Mars. The DC power supply feeding a coil is the magnetic dwarf star passing very close to Mars. The pole tip on the coil is the concentrated, but very wide contact area of Birkeland column currents. The workpiece is of course the Martian surface and the magnetic abrasive is the Martian surface materials decomposing and sputtering away leaving a fairly smooth surface on one hemisphere of Mars.

I hoped you enjoyed my model. Thanks again for your research. EU must keep developing and wondering about models for its analysis of the Martian surface; otherwise, in the academic world this analysis is totally meaningless.
Why don't you guys make a presentation at the next conference about comparing manufacturing processes with the features on the Martian surface.

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Amount of Current to Create Valles Marinersis

Unread postby dougettinger » Tue May 20, 2014 10:34 am

Hello Forum,

EU claims that most surface features on the planets like Mars can be duplicated or simulated in the laboratory. All electromagnetic phenomena demonstrated in the lab is scalable to the much larger cases found in the solar system and the cosmos.

What amount of current (in amperes) is estimated to cause the Valles Marinersis on Mars. If the voltage can also be estimated then what would be the separation distance between the cathode and anode?

Any such information or links would be most enlightening.

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Amount of Current to Create Valles Marinersis

Unread postby dougettinger » Wed May 21, 2014 6:19 am

Hello Forum,

EU claims that most surface features on the planets like Mars can be duplicated or simulated in the laboratory. All electromagnetic phenomena demonstrated in the lab is scalable to the much larger cases found in the solar system and the cosmos.

What amount of current (in amperes) is estimated to cause the Valles Marinersis on Mars. If the voltage can also be estimated then what would be the separation distance between the cathode and anode?

Any such information or links would be most enlightening.

Always a student,
Douglas Ettinger
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Re: Amount of Current to Create Valles Marinersis

Unread postby viscout aero » Wed May 21, 2014 9:54 pm

dougettinger wrote:Hello Forum,

EU claims that most surface features on the planets like Mars can be duplicated or simulated in the laboratory. All electromagnetic phenomena demonstrated in the lab is scalable to the much larger cases found in the solar system and the cosmos.

What amount of current (in amperes) is estimated to cause the Valles Marinersis on Mars. If the voltage can also be estimated then what would be the separation distance between the cathode and anode?

Any such information or links would be most enlightening.

Always a student,
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Although that numerical value cannot ever be known for certain, this background on the Valles may be of interest to you: http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/ ... ineris.htm
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Re: Amount of Current to Create Valles Marinersis

Unread postby dougettinger » Thu May 22, 2014 5:45 am

viscout aero wrote:
dougettinger wrote:Hello Forum,

EU claims that most surface features on the planets like Mars can be duplicated or simulated in the laboratory. All electromagnetic phenomena demonstrated in the lab is scalable to the much larger cases found in the solar system and the cosmos.

What amount of current (in amperes) is estimated to cause the Valles Marinersis on Mars. If the voltage can also be estimated then what would be the separation distance between the cathode and anode?

Any such information or links would be most enlightening.

Always a student,
Douglas Ettinger
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Although that numerical value cannot ever be known for certain, this background on the Valles may be of interest to you: http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/ ... ineris.htm


Of course, nothing is known for certain, but never be afraid to play with some numbers. Let me approach this question from another angle. Can you lead to any data that provides voltages, amperages, and electrode distances for material removal in the lab. I would also want to know the depth and/or volume of material removed. Then I will do my own scaling. Maybe you can link me to some of Tony Peratt's experiments. Thank you.

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Re: Type of close encounter to cause Valles Marineris on Mar

Unread postby Sparky » Thu May 22, 2014 7:03 am

Plasma gouging
Plasma gouging is a related process, typically performed on the same equipment as plasma cutting. Instead of cutting the material, plasma gouging uses a different torch configuration (torch nozzles and gas diffusers are usually different), and a longer torch-to-workpiece distance, to blow away metal. Plasma gouging can be used in a variety of applications, including removing a weld for rework.

Could not find specific voltage, but currents go up to 80amp... ;)

Say 20kv at 80amps @ 1/4inch x 10>10 = big numbers! :D
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Re: Type of close encounter to cause Valles Marineris on Mar

Unread postby dougettinger » Thu May 22, 2014 11:56 am

Hello Sparky,

"Say 20kv at 80amps @ 1/4inch x 10>10 = big numbers!" quoted by Sparky

I do not understand what you meant by 1/4 inch x 10 is greater than 10 = big numbers.

Could you please clarify. Thanks. Also, how gouging or thickness of material is generally removed. Possibly 1/4 to 1/2 inch of material?


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Re: Type of close encounter to cause Valles Marineris on Mar

Unread postby Sparky » Thu May 22, 2014 12:24 pm

sorry... :oops: My inept shorthand... :?

"Say 20kv at 80amps @ 1/4inch x 10>10 = big numbers!"

X 10>10 is multiply all by 10 to the tenth order of magnitude...

1/4 inch is distance between objects that spark must jump times 10 to the tenth order of magnitude for distance.

So we have 20kv x 10 to the tenth order of magnitude for voltage.

80amps x 10 to the tenth order of magnitude for current.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_cutting
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Re: Type of close encounter to cause Valles Marineris on Mar

Unread postby dougettinger » Thu May 22, 2014 3:49 pm

Hello Sparky,

I am still somewhat confused. I am not sure how you derived the 10th order of magnitude time s10 for voltage and amperage. Are you assuming some cosmic separation distance of say 100,000 miles? Do you have other assumptions that I should know. Thank you for your patience.

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Re: Type of close encounter to cause Valles Marineris on Mar

Unread postby Sparky » Thu May 22, 2014 4:35 pm

A plasma cutter, gouging off metal, using high voltage, set on 80 amps and at a guessed at distance of 1/4 inch , can be taken to 14 orders of magnitude, according to EU articles. It's all speculation, but it gives some numbers....

I assume that any close encounter that would carve off the top of Mars was a close one!! ;)
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
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Re: Type of close encounter to cause Valles Marineris on Mar

Unread postby dougettinger » Thu May 22, 2014 6:00 pm

Hello Sparky,

You just changed your value from ten to the 10th order to the 14th order. What made you change this value. I suspect that the order of magnitude has something to do with the amount or depth of cut - such as 1/2 inch depth of metal verses a one mile depth cut of rock to form Valles Marinersis. But the distance between the anode and cathode or the distance between Mars and it plasma discharger is also an important parameter.

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