Earths Magnetic Field

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Recovered: Global Magnetic Anomaly Map Created

Unread postby bboyer » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:23 pm

Unfortunately, was unable to locate Pg 2 of this thread in cache.

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Magnetic Field Question

Unread postby tolenio » Wed May 21, 2008 9:59 am

Hello,

I have a question on the Earth's magnetic field...

The geoligic record indicates that Earth's magnetic field reverses on a somewhat regular cycle, and although we are currently overdue for a reversal, the field is weakening.

I have a layman's question...

I have read that when a magentic field revolves it magnetic field lines stack up like the lines on a piece of lined paper, fluctuating slightly but statying horizontal.

My question is how this would affect the magnetic poles of the Earth if it were a giant electromagnet powered by the sun, but passing through the stacked magnetic field lines of the galaxy as our solor system oscillates up and down as it rotates the galaxy?

As we crossed a magnetic field line of the galaxy would the poles of Earth reverse? I assume that each magnetic field line has a north and south side to the field line. When you cross from one plane to the other the field would be forced to reverse.

If this were true what could we discern about the galactic magnetic field? Would the distance between magnetic field lines tell us somethng about the field strength?

Just curious.

Regards,
Tom
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Re: Magnetic Field Question

Unread postby webolife » Wed May 21, 2008 4:14 pm

I have a related question, magnetic planetary science guys.
The mag-field reversal scenario has been traditionally explained in terms of a Faraday disk dynamo model for planetary magnetism, which as I understand it requires the substitution of imaginary numbers, and a tremendous amount of upheaval, atmospheric and otherwise, for a polarity reversal to occur. This leads me inescapably to the conclusion that the model is wrong. But in terms of alleged evidence for magnetic reversals, eg. the symmetric magnetic striping along midocean rift zones, what are the alternatives (emphasis on plural intended)? This has been alluded to in a couple EU posts, but I'd like some hard science if possible? Is it possible that the striping is a necessary effect of laying down molten material in a state of magnetic flux over another bed of magnetically oriented material... would this possibly produce a reverse orientation, as is exigent in the placing together of two horsehoe magnets for example? This would be a relatively local effect rather than cosmic, but I'd like some insight on this from several of you smart EU folks. I've also noted in magnetic field maps that the evidence for "reversal" is much less remarkable globewide than at the rifts, and while this may be due to catastrophic geologic issues, flooding/erosion etc., I wonder what kind of EU work has been done on this? The magnetic "reversal" phenomenon takes on a longitudinal aspect in mappings of Mars, with its weaker magnetic field.
Magnetic Earth:
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44211000/jpg/_44211070_magnetic_earth_629.jpg
Magnetic Mars:
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/9905/marsmag_gsfc.jpg
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Re: Magnetic Field Question

Unread postby davesmith_au » Wed May 21, 2008 6:12 pm

tolenio wrote: ... magnetic field lines stack up like the lines on a piece of lined paper, ... stacked magnetic field lines ... crossed a magnetic field line ... each magnetic field line has a north and south side to the field line. ... distance between magnetic field lines


Giday Tom, one thing which must be understood, and this applies as much for mainstream science as for EU, "magnetic field lines" are an abstract concept, a tool for visualisation, not actual constructs seperate from each other. They are not seperate "things" which can have an "in-between", just as the lines on a weather map are not indicative of actual separate "pressures" but of the gradient of pressure from one 'line' to the next.

Individual "lines" of iron filings when sprinkled onto a piece of paper over a magnet are an artifact of the iron filings, in that each individual filing becomes magnetised as it falls to the paper, and the following close-by ones will be attracted to the first, creating the appearence of lines because the individual filings are attracted to each other, leaving gaps which appear devoid of magnetism.

The distance between these 'lines' is indicative of field strength or density, not of individual strong field lines interspersed by fields of no magnetism.

Sadly the term "lines" has been born of this artifact effect and is now commonly thought of as actual things which can stretch, break, reconnect and do backflips. This erronious concept is adhered to strongly by mainstream scientists who should know better, hence the "magnetic reconnection" which supposedly accounts for many phenomenon which are actually electrical events as described succinctly in The Electric Sky and other publications.

So the "If this were true" part of your question is answered by "It isn't true". I hope that clears up your question somewhat.

Cheers, Dave Smith.
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Re: Magnetic Field Question

Unread postby Steve Smith » Sun May 25, 2008 8:39 am

The so-called "striping" found on the ocean floor is chaotic and not a uniform indication of magnetic field reversals. The prevailing opinion is that the mid-ocean ridge is expelling magma below the Curie point at which it will retain a magnetic field. When the magma cools the polarity of the field is "locked-in". The theory of field reversal is based on the observations that the rocks seem to be N at one time and then S at another. Multiple reversals are said to have taken place.

However, this map of the "stripes" near Iceland doesn't support that idea. The illustration at the top is the idealized model but the actual map doesn't follow the rules:

Image

When the Sumerian civilization was first excavated, an intriguing discovery was made. The clay pots in various beds also showed magnetic field reversals. When clay is fired in a kiln it reaches temperatures above the Curie point, so whatever magnetic field in existence at the time causes the iron particles in the clay to orient themselves one way or the other. Since the magnetic reversals are supposed to happen in a cycles of thousands of years, did the Sumerians exist for thousands of years?

The magnetic reversals most likely occurred in a very short time. The striping pattern indicates the passage of electric currents through the strata as Earth and the Object from space interacted with each other during the upheavals.
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Re: Magnetic Field Question

Unread postby nick c » Sun May 25, 2008 11:06 am

Tolenio wrote:
The geoligic record indicates that Earth's magnetic field reverses on a somewhat regular cycle[...]
I am of the opinion that magnetic reversals are yet another piece of evidence consistent with the theory of the Earth's recent close encounters with planetary bodies, and furthermore, the supposed record does not necessarily indicate regular periodic reversals. Difficulties with dating methods based on uniformitarian (radiometric dating, sedimentary deposition) assumptions, as well as debates over ancient chronology cast doubt on anyone's conclusions about absolute dates or cycles, whether in the near or far past.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
In Earth In Upheaval , Velikovsky, p.143 thru 147, 'Magnetic Poles Reversed,'
In all parts of the globe rock formations are found with reversed polarization [footnote 1] [...]
[...]An even more puzzling fact is that the rocks with inverted polarity are much more strongly magnetized than can be accounted for by the earth's magnetic field[...]
[...]The rocks with inverted polarity, however, are magnetically charged ten times and often up to a hundred times stronger than could have been by terrestial magnetism [...]

There is evidence that the rocks were formed in the presence of a strong external (to the Earth) magnetic field, and should be weighed in conjunction with other evidence from other diverse fields (ie forensics) to give some idea as to what that source may have been. But keeping in line with this thread, I would relate it to remnant magnetism in lunar rocks, the presence of which confounded science when it was discovered, since the moon has little if any magnetic field.
Ralph Juergens wrote:
http://www.kronia.com/library/journals/escar.txt
Some or all of the lunar remnant magnetism-such a surprise to science when the first moon rocks were returned to earth, although it had been urgently predicted by Velikovsky 13-could be due to cosmic electrical discharges. It is no secret that terrestrial lightning strokes to rocky surfaces while sometimes fusing materials to form glassy fulgurites, also magnetize surrounding rocks without melting them.


-------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Smith wrote:
When the Sumerian civilization was first excavated, an intriguing discovery was made. The clay pots in various beds also showed magnetic field reversals. When clay is fired in a kiln it reaches temperatures above the Curie point, so whatever magnetic field in existence at the time causes the iron particles in the clay to orient themselves one way or the other. Since the magnetic reversals are supposed to happen in a cycles of thousands of years, did the Sumerians exist for thousands of years?

Well so much for putting magnetic reversals into the geological timeframe. Conventional dating puts the Sumerian civilization from sometime before the 3000BCE to the rise of Babylon in the 2nd millenium BCE.
But there is similar evidence of the last magnetic field reversal taking place even closer to our time, ca the 8th century BCE.
From Earth In Upheaval , Velikovsky, p.143 thru 147, 'Magnetic Poles Reversed,'
Most interesting is the discovery that the last time the reversal of the magnetic field took place in the eighth century before the present era, or twenty-seven centuries ago. The observation was made on clay fired in kilns by the Etruscans and Greeks.
The position of the ancient vases during firing is known. They were fired in a standing position, as the flow of the glaze testifies. The magnetic inclination or the magnetic dip of the iron particles in the fired clay indicates which was the nearest magnetic pole, the south or the north.
In 1896 Giuseppe Folgheraiter began his careful studies of Attic (Greek) and Etruscan vases of various centuries starting with the eighth century before the present era. His conclusion was that in the eighth century the earth's magnetic field inverted in Italy and Greece (footnote 7).


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Perhaps, some of the more technically minded on this forum could contemplate, comment, or experiment about the effect of two electromagnets moved into close proximity to each other, do they reverse polarity?
does an electric spark fly between them?

Nick
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Re: Magnetic Field Question

Unread postby rangerover777 » Sun May 25, 2008 12:33 pm

Before answering these questions, it is important to established some common
ground, otherwise the confusion will just grow.

First about magnetic pole reversal of planets or moons.
Evidently these objects have two poles, that are the main cause for the equilibrium,
alignment, orbital characteristics, self orbit and adjustments being made during their
multiply directions motion. This is a delicate web of mutual influences between planets,
moons, stars and galaxies.

It is for a reason that the planets poles are align with the sun’s poles (most of them),
North pole - up, South pole - down (the same with the planets and their moons).
That does not imply that they have to be parallel to each other, since it’s a WEB of
magnetic forces that effect and being affected by each other.
And it’s for a reason why the planets rotating in the same direction of the sun’s orbit
around it’s axis.

You CAN NOT just reverse poles of planet without causing major imbalance in the
Solar System. Or if you want to test it at home, take two sphere magnets, align their
poles, rotate one around the other and see what happen. Now, reverse the orbiting
sphere’s pole and see what happen.

This delicate alignment happen everywhere in the universe.

Now the vertical magnetic lines between the poles, are made of streams of magnets that
circulate in and out of the earth (or any other planetary object). The North pole individual
magnets are coming out of the South pole and around into the Northern pole and then through
the center of the earth back and out from the Southern pole. The same way with the South
pole individual magnets, but in the opposite direction.

To be more precise, the N pole magnets are going UP everywhere in the Southern Hemisphere
and going down everywhere in the Northern Hemisphere. And the same with the S pole
individual pole magnets area always running one stream against another (in a whirling Screw
Like Fashion).Though the streams between the poles are stronger then the rest of the
hemispheres streams.

Again, I think it is important to understand how magnets are running, before talking about
vortices, magnetic fields, poles, planets, stars and galaxies. Otherwise it’s like to talking in
different languages. Though that does not mean that you have to agree with me, but regardless
we need to have one language.

There is much more “square footage” to cover about magnetic behavior, but if we could have
some basic common ground, it will help to understand each other.

In the next posts I’ll try to answer the specific questions.

Cheers
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Re: Magnetic Field Question

Unread postby pln2bz » Sun May 25, 2008 1:29 pm

I agree that this seems like another example where humans have assumed the incorrect direction of causality. The right question, as it's normally suggested in the news, isn't only about what would happen in a pole switch, but also what might cause a pole switch. When we assume that the pole switch is not the result of some catastrophe, we unnecessarily constrain our explanations. There is much evidence to support a recent catastrophe (see "The extinction of the mammoth" by Charles Ginenthal).
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Re: Magnetic Field Question

Unread postby MGmirkin » Sun May 25, 2008 2:25 pm

I might point out that not all poles are strictly "up and down" several planets have poles that are "tilted" (Earth / Mars, I believe have their poles [rotational, and possibly magnetic] offset at an angle)... Why this should be from an "accretion" model is unclear. Similarly several bodies rotate "backwards" or "retrograde." Also not clear as to why, if everything came from the same spinning mass of "accretion disk" with the same momentum / angular velocity... Seems odd...

May not be directly related to the pole shift issue {?} but thought I'd throw it out there...

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Re: Magnetic Field Question

Unread postby rangerover777 » Sun May 25, 2008 11:17 pm

As I mentioned, the lines that goes between the N & S poles of the planets
are not exactly parallel to the sun, since it’s an sensitive web of magnetic fields (beside
the sun they comes from other planets, moons and out of the solar system).

In regard each planet’s rotation around it’s own axis. This rotation is mainly
due to the sun influence. The sun’s axis rotation, and where the planet is being “hit” the most
by the sun “curvature magnetic arms” (like in a galaxy), whether on their East side or
West side (though it seems as they being hit by the same amount of energy, it is incorrect.
due to their slight tilt from the ecliptic plan).

Even if these subjects are not the thread topic, ignoring the “basics” of magnetism
and the relations within that “magnetic web“, may lead to wrong conclusions.

Though I verified much of the basics about magnetism (through tests and observations),
Much of the explanations for the “juicy staff” (specific phenomenas) is still missing.
And of course the “news” are much more fascinating then studying the basic…

As to the question about flipping poles, I can just say that theoretically it can happen,
but the results could be that our moon will collide with earth (if you want the news first…).

It is possible though to change magnetic poles. For instance if you take a sphere magnet
and another stronger magnet (horse shoe for instance), you can move the sphere magnet
poles everywhere around the sphere (though, they will always be at opposite ends), you
can also completely take away the magnetism from the sphere magnet.

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Re: Magnetic Field Question

Unread postby bboyer » Mon May 26, 2008 6:08 am

MGmirkin wrote:I might point out that not all poles are strictly "up and down" several planets have poles that are "tilted" (Earth / Mars, I believe have their poles [rotational, and possibly magnetic] offset at an angle)... Why this should be from an "accretion" model is unclear. Similarly several bodies rotate "backwards" or "retrograde." Also not clear as to why, if everything came from the same spinning mass of "accretion disk" with the same momentum / angular velocity... Seems odd...

May not be directly related to the pole shift issue {?} but thought I'd throw it out there...

~Michael Gmirkin


Not to mention the weirdness of Uranus' axial tilt at 97.9°. Anyone know how its magnetic poles align wrt its axial tilt and the rest of the planets?

Obliquity (tilt of axis degrees) 97.9
Orbit inclination (degrees) 0.77
Orbit eccentricity (deviation from circular) 0.047

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=646#p6011
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Re: Magnetic Field Question

Unread postby StefanR » Mon May 26, 2008 6:43 am

Not to mention the weirdness of Uranus' axial tilt at 97.9°. Anyone know how its magnetic poles align wrt its axial tilt and the rest of the planets?

:shock:
:lol:

How is it possible? I was just assembling that in the Uranus thread. 8-)
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Re: Magnetic Field Question

Unread postby bboyer » Mon May 26, 2008 9:19 am

StefanR wrote:
<snip> Whats unusual is that Uranus has North and South poles on the opposite sides to that expected<snip>There is not enough Metallic liquid hydrogen in the layers of Uransus to form a magnetic field the strength of Jupiter and Saturn’s but a magnetosphere does exist [/color].The magnetosphere has the same basic attributes of Jupiter and Saturn, with a bow shock facing the Sun, and a long magnetotail trailing past the dark side. The magnetosphere is wide enough to cover all the moons in the ring system of Uranus. However the Magnetosphere is irregular and changes dependening on the rotation axis of the planet compared to its magnetic axis, this leads to the magnetotail forming a helix shape rather than the expected tubular one.

The few charged particles trapped in the same region as the rings are swept from the magnetosphere to create plasmas capable of forming a weak aurora. The magnetic field is also weak and only a small plasmasphere exists. A current sheet was detected linking Uranus and one of its moons Miranda, suggesting that Miranda is the source of magnetic influence producing the atmospheric aurora on Uranus.
http://www.starmariner.net/Space%20Sub1.html


But Uranus and Neptune buck the trend. Their magnetic fields are tipped over, with the magnetic poles lying closer to the equator than the rotational axis of the planets. And their fields are also considerably more complicated than those of Earth and the other planets. Rather than being like the field of a bar magnet, they are strongly quadrupolar - more like a combination of two bar magnets with two north and two south poles.

<snip>
http://plus.maths.org/cloud/ptag/tag_id/280/fluid+mechanics


<snip>http://web.ics.purdue.edu/~nowack/geos105/lect16-dir/lecture16.htm


Image
<snip>
One of the really big surprizes of the Voyager 2 fly-by was that, despite this, Uranus has a substantial magnetic field (about 0.75 the strength of Earth's). And the really odd thing is that the magnetic field axis does not go through the center of the planet. It is both tilted (by about 60 degrees), and off-set (by about 0.3 planetary radii).

<snip>
http://www.astro.washington.edu/larson/Astro150b/Lectures/JupSatUraNep/jupsaturanept.html


From http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... =646#p6106 Re: Electric Uranus

Wow. Huge need for an analysis from an EU perspective methinks.

Now where have I heard/seen this quadrupolar deal before? ;) http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... 52&start=0 Magnetism: Form, Structure, & Dynamics
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Re: Magnetic Field Question

Unread postby bboyer » Mon May 26, 2008 9:21 am

StefanR wrote:
Not to mention the weirdness of Uranus' axial tilt at 97.9°. Anyone know how its magnetic poles align wrt its axial tilt and the rest of the planets?

:shock:
:lol:

How is it possible? I was just assembling that in the Uranus thread. 8-)


Snicker-chronicity? :snicker:chuckle: :shock: Great job, Stefan.
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Hurricanes and low magentic fields

Unread postby tolenio » Mon May 26, 2008 1:04 pm

Do Hurricanes track in low magnetic field areas?

Since a hurricane is rotating and develops a charge, would the storm track to low magnetic field areas, and would this help meteorologists better predict direction based on where the Earth's low magnetic field areas are at a given time?

If the below snapshot of Earth's magneitc feld mapping is accurate a person could postualte that hurricanes do track into low magnetic field areas.

Image
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