Latest from Enceladus

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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albedo anomaly explained simply by EU theory

Unread post by meemoe_uk » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:13 pm

I was browsing the wiki data on one of my favourite moons, Enceladus, when I noticed something odd. Enceladus has an albedo of 1.375.
I knew before that Enceladus had a very high albedo, but this was the 1st time I realised something was odd.

Albedo is just a ratio of the amount of incident light reflected off a body. With this basic definition of albedo, the maximum it can be is 1.

Soooo..... what gives?
Digging slightly deeper into the wiki page I found that there's a 2nd type of albedo, called a "visual geometric albedo".
To understand the with this albedo you need to consider diffuse scattering of light. Diffuse scattering is what happens when white light hits white paper, it flys off in random directions, >99% of the light is re-emitted but its direction has been diffused. This is what should happen when sunlight hits a moon.
But with "visual geometric albedo", somehow the moon's surface conspires to NOT diffuse the light, but instead send it straight back in the direction it came, like a mirror, a mirror thats pointing at just the right angle.

Wiki says that Enceladus uses this visual geometric albedo.

But I wasn't satisfied. Fresh snow only has an albedo ( visual geometric or not ) of , at best, 0.9. Also the NASA data on which the wiki page is based says the surface is made of ice.
Oh uh. Not only does ice fall short of albedo, It's the moons are made out of ice meme again from NASA. Looking around the wiki page there was ice to explain the features we know to be electric and plasma phenomena.
I think Enceladus' surface is rock btw.

Yeah NASA still reckon these plumes are caused by sub surface cryo volcanos.
NASA are a bunch of space noobs

OK. So if surface acting like a mirror isn't an immediately satisfactory explanation for >1 albedo, I decided to do some more digging on this strange visual albedo effect.
The 1st thing I looked for was replication in the lab.
Guess what?
There isn't any. There's no equivalent measure in material science which measures a tricky effect of non-organised material to 'know' which way light was incident on it and to reflect it back the same way.

This was just getting odder. Its been known for over 50 years that planets and moons have been reflecting more light back than they should.

Wiki links to a discussion about the problem here

On that thread they attribute it to another effect named opposition surge, which can be observed at much smaller scale. It was seen around astronauts that the light near their shadows was brighter than it should have been.

The cause of opposition surge is not yet understood by conventional space science. 2 conventional theories are proposed, but they both fail in the lab.

So here we are again. A question that conventional space science can't resolve despite over 50 years of observations.

How does Enceladus seem to reflect more light than it should?
How does illuminated moon surface give off more light if it is near a shadow?
Why hasn't conventional science figured it out in all this time?

Well for us EU people there an obvious gap in NASA's attempt to understand these problems. Electro-magnetic effects of plasma and charged matter have been ignored.

The surface of rocky moons without atmospheres are in electrically excited states, when stimulated by sunlight, they are able to release potential energy and therefore emit more energy that otherwise expected. Surface near shadows is electrically connected to the surface in the shadow, so when stimulated it drains electrical energy from the shadowed surface, therefore gaining even further radiance.

It's no surprise to us that Enceladus, as a known electrically active moon, is producing the most striking extra albedo.

The effect can been seen all over the solar system where electrical phenomena are occurring.
On the Earth's moon, extra radiance is mostly localised to electrically active 'craters'
but on Enceladus its more globalised.

So there you go. Yet again, EU theory explains what 50 years of conventional space science could not. 'Opposition surge' is no longer a mystery.


Re: albedo anomaly explained simply by EU theory

Unread post by meemoe_uk » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:14 am


These are un-enhanced images of Saturn as it passes near zero phase angle and exhibited 'opposition surge' ( photon-stimulated emission ).
Conventional astronomers thought it very remarkable.

The whole of the Saturnian system is highly ionized so all it's bodies have high opposition surge.

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Ocean inside Saturn Moon

Unread post by StefanR » Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:48 pm

NASA Space Assets Detect Ocean inside Saturn Moon

"The way we deduce gravity variations is a concept in physics called the Doppler Effect, the same principle used with a speed-measuring radar gun," said Sami Asmar of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., a coauthor of the paper. "As the spacecraft flies by Enceladus, its velocity is perturbed by an amount that depends on variations in the gravity field that we're trying to measure. We see the change in velocity as a change in radio frequency, received at our ground stations here all the way across the solar system."

The gravity measurements suggest a large, possibly regional, ocean about 6 miles (10 kilometers) deep, beneath an ice shell about 19 to 25 miles (30 to 40 kilometers) thick. The subsurface ocean evidence supports the inclusion of Enceladus among the most likely places in our solar system to host microbial life. Before Cassini reached Saturn in July 2004, no version of that short list included this icy moon, barely 300 miles (500 kilometers) in diameter.


The south pole area has a surface depression that causes a dip in the local tug of gravity. However, the magnitude of the dip is less than expected given the size of the depression, leading researchers to conclude the depression's effect is partially offset by a high-density feature in the region, beneath the surface.

"The Cassini gravity measurements show a negative gravity anomaly at the south pole that however is not as large as expected from the deep depression detected by the onboard camera," said the paper's lead author, Luciano Iess of Sapienza University of Rome. "Hence the conclusion that there must be a denser material at depth that compensates the missing mass: very likely liquid water, which is seven percent denser than ice. The magnitude of the anomaly gave us the size of the water reservoir."

There is no certainty the subsurface ocean supplies the water plume spraying out of surface fractures near the south pole of Enceladus, however, scientists reason it is a real possibility. The fractures may lead down to a part of the moon that is tidally heated by the moon's repeated flexing, as it follows an eccentric orbit around Saturn. ... e20140403/

Where to begin again with these kinds of articles.....
Modeling expectations are not met, so enough room again to put that darned ocean there, it must be there as it
would meet with their expectations, I suppose. What super convenient of course to have that heated water only going collecting and pushing through cracks in the southern pole, 30 to 40 kilometers long cracks. Must be some frickin' pipelines with insulation, as it seems to me the supposed water would freeze close any crack after going for 40 kilometers in touch with ice? Must be the salts and suchlike.
But as the scientist have reasoned this out, it is wonderful to read they have put in the caveat that it is not certain the ocean is supplying water for the "water" plumes, what else might be supplying water if not the ocean is of course...uncertain.
It may a bit harsh, but I would propose a different title to the article:
NASA Space Asse(t)s Detect Ocean inside Saturn Moon
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.

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Re: Latest from Enceladus

Unread post by seasmith » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:00 pm

StefanR wrote:
NASA Space Asse(t)s Detect Ocean inside Saturn Moon

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Enceladus Plasma circuit?

Unread post by Subquantum » Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:56 am

"We've been able to show that each unique tendril structure can be reproduced by particular sets of geysers on the moon's surface," said Colin Mitchell, a Cassini imaging team associate at the Space Science Institute in Boulder, Colorado, and lead author of the paper. Mitchell and colleagues used computer simulations to follow the trajectories of

ice grains ejected from individual geysers. The geysers, which were discovered by Cassini in 2005, are jets of tiny water ice particles, water vapor and simple organic compounds. ... eir-source

Beautiful images of Enceladus from cassini. Seems to be a visual confirmation of a planetary plasma circuit, and yet again no mention of any electric dynamics at play from NASA.

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Re: Latest from Enceladus

Unread post by StefanR » Mon May 11, 2015 11:51 am

Gooday all,

Here again some great news from what is also known as the Enceladus fountains of junk articles.
First off, a great article published of high importance:
The pH of Enceladus' ocean
which is quite faithfully compacted on some Carnegie-site:
Geochemical process on Saturn’s moon linked to life’s origin ... 99s-origin
New work from a team including Carnegie’s Christopher Glein has revealed the pH of water spewing from a geyser-like plume on Saturn’s moon Enceladus. Their findings are an important step toward determining whether life could exist, or could have previously existed, on the sixth planet’s sixth-largest moon.
Seems promising and interesting, note how the revealed implies something of certainty.
The present team, including lead author Glein, John Baross of the University of Washington, and J. Hunter Waite Jr. of the Southwest Research Institute, developed a new chemical model based on mass spectrometry data of ice grains and gases in Enceladus’ plume gathered by Cassini, in order to determine the pH of Enceladus’ ocean. The pH tells us how acidic or basic the water is. It is a fundamental parameter to understanding geochemical processes occurring inside the moon that are considered important in determining Enceladus’ potential for acquiring and hosting life.[...]
And quite quickly we are descending into the gist of the article....a new model. And again this obtuse fascination for finding life somewhere else than Earth, but then again it is still one of the prime directives of NASA and affiliated papermills.
The team’s model, constrained by observational data from two Cassini teams, including one led by coauthor Waite, shows that the plume, and by inference the ocean, is salty with an alkaline pH of about 11 or 12, which is similar to that of glass-cleaning solutions of ammonia. It contains the same sodium chloride (NaCl) salt as our oceans here on Earth. Its additional substantial sodium carbonate (Na2CO3) makes the ocean more similar to our planet’s soda lakes such as Mono Lake in California or Lake Magadi in Kenya. The scientists refer to it as a “soda ocean.”
Constrained by observational data is, I promis, one of the most positive aspects of this article. I hope you will take a little time to skim through the as one of words most used in there is that mighty word inference, or its cousins assumed, thought to be, might, possibly and such like. So according assumptions its seems there must be an ocean that is I must say quite base.
The model suggests that the ocean’s high pH is caused by a metamorphic, underwater geochemical process called serpentinization. On Earth, serpentinization occurs when certain kinds of so-called “ultrabasic” or “ultramafic” rocks (low in silica and high in magnesium and iron) are brought up to the ocean floor from the upper mantle and chemically interact with the surrounding water molecules. Through this process, the ultrabasic rocks are converted into new minerals, including the mineral serpentine, after which the process is named, and the fluid becomes alkaline. On Enceladus, serpentinization would occur when ocean water circulates through a rocky core at the bottom of its ocean.
So if you can follow this string of assumed ocean to go through assumed crackes, faults, or pipes to the surface creating assumed fauntains, the inferred assumption about the Ph-level of the assumed ocean must be assumed to be created by the assumed serpentinization-process by de assumed circulation of the ussumed ocean through the assumed rocky core of this propable ocean. Again according to the new and improved model.
“Why is serpentinization of such great interest? Because the reaction between the metallic rocks and the ocean water also produces molecular hydrogen (H2), which provides a source of chemical energy that is essential for supporting a deep biosphere in the absence of sunlight inside moons and planets,” Glein said. “This process is central to the emerging science of astrobiology, because molecular hydrogen can both drive the formation of organic compounds like amino acids that may lead to the origin of life, and serve as food for microbial life such as methane-producing organisms. As such, serpentinization provides a link between geological processes and biological processes. The discovery of serpentinization makes Enceladus an even more promising candidate for a separate genesis of life.”
What might be of interest is who is paying how much for this claptrap, and what the interest is on that. Note again, this quickly moves from an inferred assumption to the discovery of that same thing. Hooray! Open up the champagne bottles, we made a discovery! And it provides so much new inferences to build on, H2 as building block generator and food source for life, for life that must be assumed to be there, you know, because it might be there.
One gets the idea that this new emerging science of astrobiology is not quite unlike the newly emerged climate science. assuming they can keep up assuming new inferrences.
“Our results show that this kind of synergy between observations and modeling can tell us a great deal about the geochemical processes occurring on a faraway celestial object, thus opening the door to an exciting new era of chemical oceanography in the solar system and beyond.” Glein added.
I could tell you what this kind of synergy actually shows, but I really am inclined to keep it decent. And what kind of oceanography will be done beyond our solar system? Might I infer something around a black hole?

But in the end there is just one more interesting tidbit I wish to share:

Saturn Moon's Activity Could Be 'Curtain Eruptions' ... e20150506/
New research using data from NASA's Cassini mission suggests most of the eruptions from Saturn's moon Enceladus might be diffuse curtains rather than discrete jets. Many features that appear to be individual jets of material erupting along the length of prominent fractures in the moon's south polar region might be phantoms created by an optical illusion, according to the new study.
So after how many images taken and flybys through these jets or fountains, sorry curtains did it take to come to this idea of phantoms? Spooky stuff as they say, this science.
"We think most of the observed activity represents curtain eruptions from the 'tiger stripe' fractures, rather than intermittent geysers along them," said Joseph Spitale, lead author of the study and a participating scientist on the Cassini mission at the Planetary Science Institute in Tucson, Arizona. "Some prominent jets likely are what they appear to be, but most of the activity seen in the images can be explained without discrete jets."
They are really confusing me here, if not jets but curtains than how....why would...what?!?
The researchers modeled eruptions on Enceladus as uniform curtains along the tiger stripe fractures. They found that phantom brightness enhancements appear in places where the viewer is looking through a "fold" in the curtain. The folds exist because the fractures in Enceladus' surface are more wavy than perfectly straight. The researchers think this optical illusion is responsible for most of what appear to be individual jets.
Shocks! The modellers researched, sorry the researches modelled uniform curtains and found optical illusions appearing like jets....because the fractures are more wavy than perfectly straight....What a find, that is taking into the account all the assumptions that went into creating and explaining jets and fountains.
"The viewing direction plays an important role in where the phantom jets appear," said Spitale. "If you rotated your perspective around Enceladus' south pole, such jets would seem to appear and disappear."

Phantom jets in simulated images produced by the scientists line up nicely with some of the features in real Cassini images that appear to be discrete columns of spray. The correspondence between simulation and spacecraft data suggests that much of the discrete-jet structure is an illusion, according to the researchers
Might I infer the assumption then that Cassini has only been taking images from one viewpoint? Is there a tripod where it pauses for the kodak-moment?
Curtain eruptions occur on Earth where molten rock, or magma, gushes out of a deep fracture. These eruptions, which often create spectacular curtains of fire, are seen in places such as Hawaii, Iceland and the Galapagos Islands.
Will it ever end?
"Our understanding of Enceladus continues to evolve, and we've come to expect surprises along the way," said Linda Spilker, Cassini project scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, California, who was not involved in the study. "This little ice world is becoming more exciting, not less, as we tease out new details about its subsurface ocean and astonishing geophysical activity."
Hell no! More surprises yet to come. I can hardly contain myself.....
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.

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Re: Latest from Enceladus

Unread post by madkevo » Tue Oct 27, 2015 1:41 pm

Hi all,
I searched but didn't find a more recent thread covering this:
Cassini is going to approach the south pole of Enceladus tomorrow the 28th while they expect the plumes to be, well, doing what plumes do!
Any last minute predictions ?


"Oct. 28 – Enceladus flyby (30 miles, or 49 kilometers) – E21 This daring flyby will bring the spacecraft within 30 miles (48 kilometers) of Enceladus’ south pole. The flyby is timed to occur when the moon’s plumes are at their maximum output -- a first for the mission. This will allow Cassini to obtain the most accurate measurements yet of the plume's composition"

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Re: Latest from Enceladus

Unread post by ThunderIdeal » Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:44 am


plume analysis will be a few weeks coming

a nice selection of new images in above story and more images in link below ... s20151028/

i don't understand what i'm looking at in these two ... eID=342934 ... eID=342933

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Re: Latest from Enceladus

Unread post by jacmac » Sat Oct 31, 2015 8:16 am

If the surface is ice of some kind, the circular patterns seem consistent with electric currents melting some central areas and causing concentric ripples in the surface that hold that shape upon refreezing.

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Re: Latest from Enceladus

Unread post by 601L1n9FR09 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 11:18 pm ... netosphere
Figured someone here might find this interesting.

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Re: Latest from Enceladus

Unread post by comingfrom » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:13 am

Molecular hydrogen found in ice plumes.

NASA discovery about Saturn's moon Enceladus

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Re: Latest from Enceladus

Unread post by webolife » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:52 am

meemoe_uk wrote:Image

These are un-enhanced images of Saturn as it passes near zero phase angle and exhibited 'opposition surge' ( photon-stimulated emission ).
Conventional astronomers thought it very remarkable.
The whole of the Saturnian system is highly ionized so all it's bodies have high opposition surge.
Not sure where the mystery is here. "Opposition surge" can be seen by any airline passenger looking at the plane's shadow against a backdrop of clouds. This is a well-known optical effect called a "glory", or more originally in German heiligenschein. This doesn't mean Saturn's system is not ionized, I just don't like to see known phenomena referred to as "mysteries" as though that gives us the latitude to claim anything we want about them. In a high albedo diffuse reflection, the point at which the highest reflectivity is observed is at opposition to the light source, which I generally refer to as the centroid or sink of the optical system. The central opposition point is coincident with the shadow of whatever body is at the observers viewpoint: your head, the plane, a space ship, camera, etc...
Depending upon the distance to the reflecting surface, the shadow may or may not appear in the center of the heiligenschein. It is all about optical geometry, as all light action is.
ThunderIdeal wrote:i don't understand what i'm looking at in these two ... eID=342934 ... eID=342933
You are looking at "Newton's rings", usually called "diffraction" patterns caused by the filters as the image was taken at an incorrect focal length in or near the filtering mechanism. In other words, it's way out of focus. They didn't calibrate something right. However, you are seeing actual ordered light rays lensed by the filter. If it had been taken in normal color, these would be spectral halos, as seen in our atmosphere from time to time. A rainbow is another example. (Unlike standard modellers, I do not regard these patterns as "wave" phenomena -- stuff for a different thread.)
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

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Re: Latest from Enceladus

Unread post by seasmith » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:27 am

Nature Astronomy
06 November 2017
These observations require a huge source of heat, about 100 times more than is expected to be generated by the natural decay of radioactive elements in rocks in its core, as well as a means of focusing activity at the south pole.
The tidal effect from Saturn is thought to be at the origin of the eruptions deforming the icy shell by push-pull motions as the moon follows an elliptical path around the giant planet. But the energy produced by tidal friction in the ice, by itself, would be too weak to counterbalance the heat loss seen from the ocean – the globe would freeze within 30 million years.
ESA/JPL's explanation:
In the new simulations the core is made of unconsolidated, easily deformable, porous rock that water can easily permeate. As such, cool liquid water from the ocean can seep into the core and gradually heat up through tidal friction between sliding rock fragments, as it gets deeper.
Enceladus interior. Credits: Surface: NASA/JPL-Caltech/Space Science Institute; interior: LPG-CNRS/U. Nantes/U. Angers. Graphic composition: ESA
Water circulates in the core and then rises because it is hotter than the surroundings. This process ultimately transfers heat to the base of the ocean in narrow plumes where it interacts strongly with the rocks. At the seafloor, these plumes vent into the cooler ocean.
One seafloor hotspot alone is predicted to release as much as 5 GW of energy, roughly corresponding to the annual geothermal power consumed in Iceland. ... -of-years/
We are thus able to explain the main global characteristics of Enceladus: global ocean, strong dissipation, reduced ice-shell thickness at the south pole and seafloor activity. We predict that this endogenic activity can be sustained for tens of millions to billions of years.


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