X-rays from solar system objects

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: X-rays from solar system objects

Unread postby Anaconda » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:39 pm

Nereid wrote:the use of the term "circuit" when describing, or explaining, phenomena observed in plasmas can be misleading (at best) and downright wrong (at worst)...then it would be a VERY GOOD IDEA to take some time to describe, carefully, just what you mean.


Here is the above presented and linked recent peer-reviewed paper discussing the electric circuit theory of CME's:

2009 peer-reviewed published paper: Central European Astrophysics Bulletin

GENERATION OF LARGE SCALE ELECTRIC FIELDS IN CORONAL FLARE CIRCUITS, H. Onel and G.J. Mann

Astrophysical Institute Potsdam

Abstract:

A large number of energetic electrons are generated during solar flares. They carry a substantial part of the flare released energy but how these electrons are created is not fully understood yet. This paper suggests that plasma motion in an active region in the photosphere is the source of large electric currents. These currents can be described by macroscopic circuits. Under special circumstances currents can establish in the corona along magnetic field lines. The energy released by these currents when moderate assumptions for the local conditions are made, is found be comparable to the flare energy.


This paper presents the electric circuit theory championed by Hannes Alfven.

Quote from the above paper:

Currently several different electron acceleration mechanisms in the solar corona are known. All of these mechanisms have the principle of acceleration due to electric fields in common, but differ in the processes leading to the generation of the electric field. In the present paper the generation of a large scale DC electric field is discussed in terms of electric circuits, which is related to a current generated due to photopheric plasma motion (e.g., Alfven and Carlqvist, 1967; Sen and White, 1972; Martres et al., 1973; Heyvarts, 1974; Obayashi, 1975; Akasofu, 1979; Kan et al., 1983; Melrose, 1997; Zaitsev et al., 1998; Yang et al., 2004; Zaitsev, 2005). Motivated by these papers, the electric currents are investigated in order to obtain a mechanism for acceleration of electrons to high energies. The basic idea of this mechanism is to generate the flare energy by photopheric plasma motion in active regions. This is in contradiction to the reconnection model in which the magnetic field energy in the corona is taken for the flare.

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/090 ... 0813v1.pdf

Nereid, what is "'misleading' (at best)" in the above, circuit theory, peer-reviewed published paper?

Nereide wrote:...then it would be a VERY GOOD IDEA to take some time to describe, carefully, just what you mean.


Nereid, do you have an objection to the description and the formal mathematical equations H. Onel and G.J. Mann provided in their paper?
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Re: X-rays from solar system objects

Unread postby Nereid » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:08 pm

mharratsc wrote:Seems applicable? Charge carriers, even in motion (i.e.- solar 'wind'), will still require completion of a circuit for current flow. There IS a return path.

I'm going to have another go at this.

What you said, earlier, is "is it still taboo to mention 'current flow' regards to the Sun-Earth circuit?" (I put the last few words in bold)

Can you please trace for me - at a high level - the full path of electrons (say) - the circuit - that includes the Sun and Earth?

Pick anywhere to start, though the Earth or Sun might be easiest, and follow a bunch of electrons around the circuit, until they return to the starting point. If significant numbers don't make it all the way round - some sort of current, or circuit, loss I guess you'd call it - please note that.

Thanks.
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Physics- The First Science

Unread postby Kapriel » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:41 pm

Wouldn't it be just great if there was a modest, easy to understand Physics primer which included these questions/answers at their most basic level?

One such book due to be released in March (according to Amazon) was written by Suzanne White-Brahmia of Rutgers in New Jersey. Sadly, her book didn't include EU-concepts, but perhaps it's not too much to hope that some day soon books written exclusively for University use will include these long-suppressed or denied materials?
Amazon doesn't have a picture of the jacket-cover, strangely. Here's the URL to a brief review: http://rutgerspress.rutgers.edu/final_complete_SS11_catalog.pdf
Doubt is not proof.
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Re: X-rays from solar system objects

Unread postby Nereid » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:34 am

That source give April as the publication date (not March), and Peter Lindfield as co-author (with Suzanne White-Brahmia).

I'm not sure it would be much help for most discussions here in the Thunderbolts Forum; the review includes these words: "Peter Lindenfeld and Suzanne White Brahmia have developed an algebra-based
physics book with features to help readers see the physics in their lives
" (and I'm not sure how anyone could call $72 for a paperback an "economical price"! :P ).
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Re: X-rays from solar system objects

Unread postby mharratsc » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:48 am

Ms. Nereid asked:
Can you please trace for me - at a high level - the full path of electrons (say) - the circuit - that includes the Sun and Earth?


No. :)

It is enough for me to know that 'charge exchange' and 'circuit' mean a bi-directional flow of energy/matter. I also know that there are ascending/descending current sheets at the North Pole (and I'm sure at the South Pole too but I don't remember seeing that specifically addressed), and that there are twin current 'sheets' (some argue they are flux tubes/Birkeland currents) connecting the Earth and the Sun. Bilateral symmetry found in electrical systems would indicate to me that there is a bi-directional component to those two solar 'sheets'/tubes/<rose-by-any-other-name>, to a degree of certainty with which I am already most comfortable.

These facts fit with my knowledge of electrical theory and I simply don't feel the need to 'beat into my own head' what I feel I already know, you see?

You may- at your own liesure, ma'am- believe whatever you wish regarding the subject. Me- I'm good with what I've got already. :)
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington
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Re: X-rays from solar system objects

Unread postby Anaconda » Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:01 pm

Anaconda, December 22, 2010 wrote:Nereid, do you have an objection to the description and the formal mathematical equations H. Onel and G.J. Mann provided in their paper?


It's been over two weeks since this question was put to Nereid, but still no answer.

See, I've had discussions with Nereid at BAUT and Universe Today. Nereid likes to ask questions and insists on answers.

Actually, at BAUT, Nereid insisted on answers as part of that forum's rules and, also, did the same thing at Universe Today (although, no answer was required, as it was only a comment section).

But when questions are put to Nereid where the answer is not to Nereid's liking or would make the gravity "only" (read "big bang") model look bad... poof... as apparently in the present case... Nereid vanishes into the electronic ether.

Dear David Talbott, please don't hold out a lot of hope for Nereid engaging in meaningful discussion... that's not why Nereid is here on this forum, rather, it's my belief that Nereid is here only to debunk. Probably because she knows the forum is starting to get an increased level of traffic because myself and many others have been going out into different forums and making the case for an electromagnetic interpretation of astrophysical phenomenon, which has been backed up by observations & measurements by in situ satellite probes.

Motive is very hard to fathom, but actions are our best guide (unless somebody tells us directly why they do something).

Nereid has been attacking Electric Universe for years on other forums, but in all that time attacking and even accusing others of academic fraud, Nereid apparently has never taken the time to independently study and attempt to understand Electric Universe theory.

That should speak volumes about Nereid's intellectual curiosity... and why Nereid is here on this forum.

False hope is self-deception... I, for one, will not engage knowingly in self-deception... I follow where the evidence leads.
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Re: X-rays from solar system objects

Unread postby Nereid » Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:35 am

Anaconda wrote:
Anaconda, December 22, 2010 wrote:Nereid, do you have an objection to the description and the formal mathematical equations H. Onel and G.J. Mann provided in their paper?


It's been over two weeks since this question was put to Nereid, but still no answer.

In that time I think you'll find I've been one of this forum's most prolific poster.

In any case, I intend to return to this thread, to continue substantive discussion of the content, but it may take a while (so please be patient).
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Re: X-rays from solar system objects

Unread postby Nereid » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:03 pm

Anaconda wrote:Nereid, do you have an objection to the description and the formal mathematical equations H. Onel and G.J. Mann provided in their paper?

At this time, I do not.

However, I've not done much more than skim it, and so, after I've had a chance to go over it in detail, I may (or may not).
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