Layman talking. Watch your step.
Solar System and Planet Formation
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Archonix
- Posts: 12
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Re: Check it out! "Discover adds mystery to origins of earth"
Another alternative, as I understand things, is that when a star ejects a large portion of matter (per the hypothesis that planets form by fissioning to reduce electrical stress), the proportions of various elements generated within the star alters, along with its spectrum. So that could be another explanation.
Layman talking. Watch your step.
Layman talking. Watch your step.
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Sparky
- Posts: 3517
- Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm
Re: Sun and Planets Constructed Differently Than Thought, NASA M
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43513975/ns ... nce-space/
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 145430.htm
And just how did they measure the outer layer of the sun billions of years ago? Just more garbage in garbage out...
ahh, the trusted glommation theory.Some process enriched the stuff that formed our planet — and the other rocky bodies in the inner solar system — with oxygen-17 and oxygen-18 by about 7 percent.
While scientists don't yet know for sure how this happened, they have some ideas. The leading contender, McKeegan said, may be a process called "isotopic self-shielding."
About 4.6 billion years ago, the planets had not yet coalesced out of the solar nebula, a thick cloud of dust and gas. Much of the oxygen in this cloud was probably bound up in gaseous carbon monoxide (CO) molecules.
But the oxygen didn't stay bound up forever. High-energy ultraviolet light from the newly formed sun (or nearby stars) blasted into the cloud, breaking apart the CO. The liberated oxygen quickly glommed onto other atoms, forming molecules that eventually became the rocky building blocks of planets.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 145430.htm
Garbage in garbage out. That is what makes for anomalies."These findings show that all solar system objects including the terrestrial planets, meteorites and comets are anomalous compared to the initial composition of the nebula from which the solar system formed," said Bernard Marty,
hmm, that translates to, preponderance of wild ass speculation.-the preponderance of scientific evidence suggests that the outer layer of our sun has not changed measurably for billions of years.
And just how did they measure the outer layer of the sun billions of years ago? Just more garbage in garbage out...
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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katesisco
- Posts: 96
- Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:36 am
Re: Solar System and Planet Formation
Good thinking. I found quantumagriculture.com/capitance battery and have been reading the 3 pages for the last 3 days which shows I studied art not physics. But I am leaning toward the creation of mass. Or something more simple, the sun's magnetosphere 'cellular' skin being reducible or expandable. Reducible down to say the orbit of near Earth, with everything outside being exposed the magnetic pyroelectric expansion due to Fluff, our local magnetic cloud and everything else in Sol's reduced magnetosphere being subjected to pizeoelectric pressure which may explain Mercury's massive core. Since Earth found itself outside of Sol's influence in the past, this would explain the expansion S W Carey so plainly described. It would be best if the theory we settled on took most or all of the unexplainable stuff instead of just one event at a time.
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tholden
- Posts: 934
- Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:02 pm
Giant Planet Missing
Latest astonishing result from mainstream astronomy...
http://swri.org/9what/releases/2011/giant-planet.htm
http://swri.org/9what/releases/2011/giant-planet.htm
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Goldminer
- Posts: 1024
- Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:08 pm
Re: Giant Planet Missing
tholden wrote:Latest astonishing result from mainstream astronomy...
http://swri.org/9what/releases/2011/giant-planet.htm
Human history bears the very possibility that just such near collisions did actually happen.From the article: wrote:This scenario presents a problem, however. Slow changes in Jupiter's orbit, such as the ones expected from interaction with small bodies, would have conveyed too much momentum to the orbits of the terrestrial planets, stirring up or disrupting the inner solar system and possibly causing the Earth to collide with Mars or Venus.
The artist's impression:
Link here
Is impressive! (unmitigated sarcasm)!
I sense a disturbance in the farce.
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flyingcloud
- Posts: 490
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- Location: Honey Brook
Re: Giant Planet Missing
in which case the current theory of evolution must be comprimised
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mharratsc
- Posts: 1405
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Re: Giant Planet Missing
From the article:
Seriously- has anyone ever heard of a case where they didn't find what they hoped for, in the running of their pet computer models?
Nesvorny conducted thousands of computer simulations of the early solar system to test the jumping-Jupiter theory. He found that, as hoped for, Jupiter did in fact jump by scattering from Uranus or Neptune.
Seriously- has anyone ever heard of a case where they didn't find what they hoped for, in the running of their pet computer models?
Mike H.
"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington
"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington
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tayga
- Posts: 668
- Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:54 am
Re: Giant Planet Missing
Very good point. You can fit any line with a polynomial as long as you use a sufficient number of variables. Claiming that the fit means anything is another matter.mharratsc wrote:Seriously- has anyone ever heard of a case where they didn't find what they hoped for, in the running of their pet computer models?
tayga
It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
- Richard P. Feynman
Normal science does not aim at novelties of fact or theory and, when successful, finds none.
- Thomas Kuhn
It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.
- Richard P. Feynman
Normal science does not aim at novelties of fact or theory and, when successful, finds none.
- Thomas Kuhn
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Sparky
- Posts: 3517
- Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm
Re: Solar System and Planet Formation
Hmmmmm, both, as i understand it. We are part of a galaxy, and may be somewhat moving within that galaxy. But, from our limited lifetime perspective, things seem to be stationary. And our galaxy may be moving, relative to other galaxies. But, from our limited lifetime perspective, things seem to be stationary. As for the universe, there is nothing to compare movement to, as redshift=distance has been shown to be unreliable, so extrapolated distances from that are dubious. But, from our limited lifetime perspective, things seem to be stationary. And for everyday activity, one can function well enough thinking the universe, galaxies, and solar system are static to each other.Jerrycruise wrote:Does our solar system move through the universe like a cloud moves through the sky or are we completely stationary?
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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MGmirkin
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Magnetic Fields Shape Planetary Systems?
([Electro!]magnetoastrocoolness: How Cosmic Magnetic Fields Shape Planetary Systems)
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/obs ... he-cosmos/
But, hey now, they're treading dangerously close to Electric Universe territory there. Was the title intentionally magneto-centric rather than electro-centric or electromagneto-centric?
Why's everything gotta' be magneto-centric, anyway? Not like magnetic fields aren't caused by electric currents or anything... Geez. You'd think the cart was pushing the horse!
~Michael Gmirkin
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/obs ... he-cosmos/
Ahh that's some priceless stuff right there.“When all else fails, introduce a magnetic field,” exoplanet theorist Dimitar Sasselov of Harvard University told an audience at the American Astronomical Society meeting this week.
Judging from his and others’ talks, all else has been failing a lot lately.
But, hey now, they're treading dangerously close to Electric Universe territory there. Was the title intentionally magneto-centric rather than electro-centric or electromagneto-centric?
Why's everything gotta' be magneto-centric, anyway? Not like magnetic fields aren't caused by electric currents or anything... Geez. You'd think the cart was pushing the horse!
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law
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MGmirkin
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Re: Magnetic Fields Shape Planetary Systems?
I want something that screams electroastrocoolness! Just saying...
Y'know, like this:
('Space Lightning': Highest Electrical Current In The Universe Found)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/2 ... 82534.html
Hey, if one giant jet is completely electrical in nature (one giant 10^18 ampere current), it begs the question: are ALL giant jets of this sort completely electrical in nature? How many amperes, for example, in this one:
(Biggest star jet found in neighbouring galaxy)
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/5146 ... ing-galaxy
It's like 400 trillion kilometers long... I'd bet it's got to have a pretty high current to sustain the magnetic field that keeps it filamentary via the pinch effect. Just saying.
Best,
~Michael Gmirkin
Y'know, like this:
('Space Lightning': Highest Electrical Current In The Universe Found)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/2 ... 82534.html
Hey, if one giant jet is completely electrical in nature (one giant 10^18 ampere current), it begs the question: are ALL giant jets of this sort completely electrical in nature? How many amperes, for example, in this one:
(Biggest star jet found in neighbouring galaxy)
http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/5146 ... ing-galaxy
It's like 400 trillion kilometers long... I'd bet it's got to have a pretty high current to sustain the magnetic field that keeps it filamentary via the pinch effect. Just saying.
Best,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law
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MGmirkin
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Re: Solar System and Planet Formation
I'm guessing you guys have probably already seen the article... If not:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... f=4&t=5644
([Electro!]magnetoastrocoolness: How Cosmic Magnetic Fields Shape Planetary Systems)
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/obs ... he-cosmos/
Cheers,
~MG
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... f=4&t=5644
([Electro!]magnetoastrocoolness: How Cosmic Magnetic Fields Shape Planetary Systems)
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/obs ... he-cosmos/
Cheers,
~MG
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law
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Native
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:42 am
Re: Solar System and Planet Formation
I think we are given a very plausible explanation of the Solar System origin from the many mythical Stories of Creation.
These tellings often begins with at stage before creation and an explanation of the primordial elements and their creative qualities. Then the stories continue with a light and a thundering sound that set these elements in swirling motions. (These stories don’t tell of a beginning, but of the principal creation formation as such)
Explanation of the basical creation myths
1) Almost all the myths are telling of Giants that create the first land.
2) The largest figure humans can observe in the Sky is the Milky Way contours. These figures have been mythological mentioned as both human- and animal-like figures - and sometime as anthropomorphic beings.
3) The first physical creation takes place in the mythical Primeval Mound i.e. the Milky Way bulged centre of light.
4) From this centre everything in our galaxy is created and spread out in the galactic disc. (The expulsion from the Garden of Eden)
The actual formation process
Looking at our galaxy which is a barred galaxy, it is obvious that the formation process and the movement of the objects in the MW cannot go from the outer parts of the MW-disc and inwards to the centre. This is even confirmed by the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_rot ... he_problem which contradicts the Newton laws for celestial movements around a gravity centre. (That was the reason to invent the "dark matter")
The only logical explanation of the MW-object movement is that everything in our galaxy is formatted from the galactic centre and moved out in the galactic surroundings - in the actual state of the galactic electromagnetic circuit.
Also: When studying the bars and arms in the MW, it is impossible for the movements in the arm to take a suddenly abrupt 90 degree turn into the bars if the movement should be inwards to the centre of the MW. The opposite is obviously the case. The formation in the MW and the looks of the bars, is telling of a formation that, in a state of "turning inside out", suddenly are shooting larger spheres of gas and particles i.e. stars and planets out through the bars and as the rotation is going on in the centre, the arms are winding up from the bars and out in the MW disc.
That is: The total circuit process is a first ingoing movement in the galaxy where gas and particles are assembled into the centre of the Milky Way. Here gas and dust are sorted out and particles are connected via the nuclear process. When a critical mass is assembled, these larger spheres are transported horizontally of the rotation plane and out in the MW- bars and out in the disc.
- The nuclear process in the MW creates magnetic swirling rays in the circuit. These rays also create the rotation of stars and planets and when these are transported horizontally out in the MW- bars, they keep the rotation momentum that origin from the MW rotation itself. This also explains the 60 degree difference between the MW orbital plane and the orbital plane in the Solar System. (Remember the warping shape of the MW that can affect the orbital plane of the Solar System not to be 90 degree of the MW-plane)
My conclusion
When reinterpreting the Stories of Creation and compare these to modern science, and confirmed by scientific observations and alternative explanations of these, I say that our Solar System was created in the Milky Way centre and fairly gently was transported out via the MW- bars and out in the galactic disc.
If so there still should be a slowly movement outwards in the disc and it also should show a slow movement of the planets away from each other because of the original "expulsion from the Garden of Eden", the Milky Way centre.
- Well, that’s what I can deduce out from the Stories of Creation and from looking at the modern observations taking an alternative approach to these.
What you think about this? Does it make any sense to you?
These tellings often begins with at stage before creation and an explanation of the primordial elements and their creative qualities. Then the stories continue with a light and a thundering sound that set these elements in swirling motions. (These stories don’t tell of a beginning, but of the principal creation formation as such)
Explanation of the basical creation myths
1) Almost all the myths are telling of Giants that create the first land.
2) The largest figure humans can observe in the Sky is the Milky Way contours. These figures have been mythological mentioned as both human- and animal-like figures - and sometime as anthropomorphic beings.
3) The first physical creation takes place in the mythical Primeval Mound i.e. the Milky Way bulged centre of light.
4) From this centre everything in our galaxy is created and spread out in the galactic disc. (The expulsion from the Garden of Eden)
The actual formation process
Looking at our galaxy which is a barred galaxy, it is obvious that the formation process and the movement of the objects in the MW cannot go from the outer parts of the MW-disc and inwards to the centre. This is even confirmed by the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_rot ... he_problem which contradicts the Newton laws for celestial movements around a gravity centre. (That was the reason to invent the "dark matter")
The only logical explanation of the MW-object movement is that everything in our galaxy is formatted from the galactic centre and moved out in the galactic surroundings - in the actual state of the galactic electromagnetic circuit.
Also: When studying the bars and arms in the MW, it is impossible for the movements in the arm to take a suddenly abrupt 90 degree turn into the bars if the movement should be inwards to the centre of the MW. The opposite is obviously the case. The formation in the MW and the looks of the bars, is telling of a formation that, in a state of "turning inside out", suddenly are shooting larger spheres of gas and particles i.e. stars and planets out through the bars and as the rotation is going on in the centre, the arms are winding up from the bars and out in the MW disc.
That is: The total circuit process is a first ingoing movement in the galaxy where gas and particles are assembled into the centre of the Milky Way. Here gas and dust are sorted out and particles are connected via the nuclear process. When a critical mass is assembled, these larger spheres are transported horizontally of the rotation plane and out in the MW- bars and out in the disc.
- The nuclear process in the MW creates magnetic swirling rays in the circuit. These rays also create the rotation of stars and planets and when these are transported horizontally out in the MW- bars, they keep the rotation momentum that origin from the MW rotation itself. This also explains the 60 degree difference between the MW orbital plane and the orbital plane in the Solar System. (Remember the warping shape of the MW that can affect the orbital plane of the Solar System not to be 90 degree of the MW-plane)
My conclusion
When reinterpreting the Stories of Creation and compare these to modern science, and confirmed by scientific observations and alternative explanations of these, I say that our Solar System was created in the Milky Way centre and fairly gently was transported out via the MW- bars and out in the galactic disc.
If so there still should be a slowly movement outwards in the disc and it also should show a slow movement of the planets away from each other because of the original "expulsion from the Garden of Eden", the Milky Way centre.
- Well, that’s what I can deduce out from the Stories of Creation and from looking at the modern observations taking an alternative approach to these.
What you think about this? Does it make any sense to you?
Life makes senses and who could doubt it, if you have no doubt about it. - "Grooks" by Piet Hein - My fellow Danish countryman and also a Natural Philosopher
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MGmirkin
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Re: Solar System and Planet Formation
The ol' Milky Way Gods, huh?
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap000411.html
Solar system direction appears to be tangential (moving approximately around the galactic center, though perhaps not perfectly so), not radial (not moving outward as hypothesized)? So... "Not so much?"
Still not buyin' it... Sorry.
I'd suggest reviewing Dave Talbott's work re: The Saturn Myth before getting too attached to the Milky Way Gods hypothesis... And Dwardu Cardona, and Ev Cochrane, and Rens van der Sluijs.
(Dave Talbott)
http://www.amazon.com/Saturn-Myth-Reint ... 385113765/
http://mikamar.biz/DVD-info/rew-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/tog-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/DVD-info/sas1-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/DVD-info/sas2-b.htm
(Dwardu Cardona)
http://mikamar.biz/godstar.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/fs-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/ps-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/ms-a.htm
(Ev Cochrane)
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/mm-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/mfv-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/sf-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/ofg-a.htm
(Rens van der Sluijs)
http://www.mythopedia.info/books.html
Hopefully these will help better sort out the worldwide mythologies.
If you've a few hours to kill while you're acquiring said books, these may give an overview of some of the notions tentatively explored hereabouts once in a while:
(Saturn Myth - YouTube Playlist)
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL74CD162A5D88095C
And, if nothing else, one can always stop by the archive of old Mythology TPODs:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/00sub ... #Mythology
Or a new newer 'uns:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2011/09 ... stimonies/
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2011/09 ... -part-one/
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2011/09 ... -part-two/
Best,
~MG
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap000411.html
Solar system direction appears to be tangential (moving approximately around the galactic center, though perhaps not perfectly so), not radial (not moving outward as hypothesized)? So... "Not so much?"
Still not buyin' it... Sorry.
I'd suggest reviewing Dave Talbott's work re: The Saturn Myth before getting too attached to the Milky Way Gods hypothesis... And Dwardu Cardona, and Ev Cochrane, and Rens van der Sluijs.
(Dave Talbott)
http://www.amazon.com/Saturn-Myth-Reint ... 385113765/
http://mikamar.biz/DVD-info/rew-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/tog-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/DVD-info/sas1-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/DVD-info/sas2-b.htm
(Dwardu Cardona)
http://mikamar.biz/godstar.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/fs-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/ps-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/ms-a.htm
(Ev Cochrane)
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/mm-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/mfv-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/sf-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/ofg-a.htm
(Rens van der Sluijs)
http://www.mythopedia.info/books.html
Hopefully these will help better sort out the worldwide mythologies.
If you've a few hours to kill while you're acquiring said books, these may give an overview of some of the notions tentatively explored hereabouts once in a while:
(Saturn Myth - YouTube Playlist)
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL74CD162A5D88095C
And, if nothing else, one can always stop by the archive of old Mythology TPODs:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/00sub ... #Mythology
Or a new newer 'uns:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2011/09 ... stimonies/
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2011/09 ... -part-one/
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2011/09 ... -part-two/
Best,
~MG
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law
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Sparky
- Posts: 3517
- Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm
Re: Solar System and Planet Formation
.MGmirkin wrote:The ol' Milky Way Gods, huh?
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap000411.html
Solar system direction appears to be tangential (moving approximately around the galactic center, though perhaps not perfectly so), not radial (not moving outward as hypothesized)? So... "Not so much?"
Still not buyin' it... Sorry.
I'd suggest reviewing Dave Talbott's work re: The Saturn Myth before getting too attached to the Milky Way Gods hypothesis... And Dwardu Cardona, and Ev Cochrane, and Rens van der Sluijs.
(Dave Talbott)
http://www.amazon.com/Saturn-Myth-Reint ... 385113765/
http://mikamar.biz/DVD-info/rew-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/tog-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/DVD-info/sas1-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/DVD-info/sas2-b.htm
(Dwardu Cardona)
http://mikamar.biz/godstar.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/fs-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/ps-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/ms-a.htm
(Ev Cochrane)
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/mm-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/mfv-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/sf-a.htm
http://mikamar.biz/book-info/ofg-a.htm
(Rens van der Sluijs)
http://www.mythopedia.info/books.html
Hopefully these will help better sort out the worldwide mythologies.
If you've a few hours to kill while you're acquiring said books, these may give an overview of some of the notions tentatively explored hereabouts once in a while:
(Saturn Myth - YouTube Playlist)
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL74CD162A5D88095C
And, if nothing else, one can always stop by the archive of old Mythology TPODs:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/00sub ... #Mythology
Or a new newer 'uns:
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2011/09 ... stimonies/
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2011/09 ... -part-one/
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2011/09 ... -part-two/
Best,
~MG
.
.
...........................................
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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