Electric Phobos and Deimos

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Electric Phobos and Deimos

Unread postby junglelord » Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:57 am

The long lines evident on Phobos look like electric scaring to me. Comments?
3D MOON OF MARS: Grab your 3D glasses. Two weeks ago, NASA's Mars Reconnaisance Orbiter (MRO) targeted martian moon Phobos and took a pair of high-resolution pictures. Mission scientists have combined them to make a startling red-blue anaglyph. Glasses on?

3D Image
http://spaceweather.com/swpod2008/10apr ... in460i6f41


The 2D view is nearly as good:
http://spaceweather.com/swpod2008/10apr ... in460i6f41

Long ago, something struck Phobos and almost shattered the tiny moon. The scar of that impact, 9km-wide Stickney crater, is located at the top of the image. Color filters in MRO's camera reveal a blue splash of material around Stickney's rim. What is it? No one knows. Equally striking are Phobos' many long grooves and crater chains. Although these seem to radiate from Stickney, recent studies show that most are not related to the crater. Instead they come from the planet below; when asteroids hit Mars, debris flies up and scores Phobos. The grooves seem to emerge from Stickney only because the crater faces Mars. Finally, note the bright features lining inner slopes of Stickney. These are thought to be landslides--on a moon where the pull of gravity is only 0.001 g!

Last edited by nick c on Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Thread title changed for purpose of merging posts
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Re: Electric Scaring on Phobos

Unread postby redeye » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:26 am

Great image of Phobos, almost looks like a comet nuclei.

It's surprising to see so much colour.

Stickney crater

Phobos-Grunt

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Re: Electric Scaring on Phobos

Unread postby redeye » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:49 am

It's interesting that Stickney crater is on the face that is locked to Mars (how does such a small body become tidally locked in the first place?). I think the popular opinion is that it was formed by debris blasted up from an impact on Mars. I read that the long lines on Phobos are fractures caused by the formation of Stickney crater although I don't like this explanation.

Phobos animation

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Re: Electric Scaring on Phobos

Unread postby davesmith_au » Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:10 am

Striking moon, and yes, very comet-like in appearence too. And just check out that HUGE "impact" crater :o ... bwah ha ha ha ha

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/MRO/multimedia/pia10368.html

PIA10368_phobos_whole.jpg
PIA10368 Image Credit NASA-JPL-Caltech - University of Arizona



Hmmm. Deserves a little closer inspection I think... especially those long lines junglelord mentions.

PIA10368_phobos_crop1.jpg
PIA10368 Image Credit NASA-JPL-Caltech - University of Arizona


Gosh, it almost looks like they criss-cross as they make their way over the rim of the crater...

PIA10368_phobos_crop2.jpg
PIA10368 Image Credit NASA-JPL-Caltech - University of Arizona


Yep, they sure do. And yes redeye, their highly speculative explanation is that they've been caused by material tossed up from Mars impact events. I think I know who's doing the tossing...

NASA wrote:A series of troughs and crater chains is obvious on other parts of the moon. Although many appear radial to Stickney in this image, recent studies from the European Space Agency's Mars Express orbiter indicate that they are not related to Stickney. Instead, they may have formed when material ejected from impacts on Mars later collided with Phobos. The lineated textures on the walls of Stickney and other large craters are landslides formed from materials falling into the crater interiors in the weak Phobos gravity (less than one one-thousandth of the gravity on Earth).


"troughs and crater chains" like they're two different things, and no explanation at all about the troughs, let's have a closer look at one of these:

PIA10368_phobos_crop3.jpg
PIA10368 Image Credit NASA-JPL-Caltech - University of Arizona


So just what is it that caused such straight, long chains of craters numbering in the lots and lots?

This is one excellent rock to have a look over, especially with the resolution available at the NASA site above. There's even higher res available from the HiRise site itself.

I think Phobos raises many more questions for the standard model than it supplies anwers for.

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Re: Electric Scaring on Phobos

Unread postby redeye » Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:36 am

Gosh, it almost looks like they criss-cross as they make their way over the rim of the crater...


This reminds me of similar scars on the moons of Uranus.

Ariel's canyons

Miranda's chevrons

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The 'Light Bluish' Areas On Phobos

Unread postby vadar » Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:40 am

Almost on-topic: the bright markings on Phobos.

Electrically-gouged grooves and chained craters (some criss-crossing) emanating from and around Phobos' Stickney crater, and the mysterious 'light bluish' areas (APOD April 10, below).

Arrowed in the first pic: Part-way along one of the grooves something appears to have exploded, and abruptly terminated that particular line of 'light bluish' overlay...or the other way round...

Image
-----------------------------------------------------
2008 April 10: Stickney Crater
-----------------------------------------------------
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080410.html
Stickney Crater
Credit: HiRISE, MRO, LPL (U. Arizona), NASA

Explanation: Stickney Crater, the largest crater on the martian moon Phobos, is named for Chloe Angeline Stickney Hall, mathematician and wife of astronomer Asaph Hall. Asaph Hall discovered both the Red Planet's moons in 1877. Over 9 kilometers across, Stickney is nearly half the diameter of Phobos itself, so large that the impact that blasted out the crater likely came close to shattering the tiny moon. This stunning, enhanced-color image of Stickney and surroundings was recorded by the HiRISE camera onboard the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter as it passed within some six thousand kilometers of Phobos last month. Even though the surface gravity of asteroid-like Phobos is less than 1/1000th Earth's gravity, streaks suggest loose material has slid down inside the crater walls over time. Light bluish regions near the crater's rim could indicate a relatively freshly exposed surface. The origin of the curious grooves along the surface is mysterious but may be related to the crater-forming impact.
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Revisiting PHOBOS. Close flyby pics of Mars Express.

Unread postby FS3 » Thu Jul 31, 2008 4:01 am

The ESA spacecraft Mars Express managed a close encounter of 93 kms of Martian moon PHOBOS on 23 July. Along with phantastic pictures and scanning for a possible landing site for a future Russian landing mission.

Mars Express acquires sharpest images of martian moon Phobos
...Phobos-Grunt (Phobos soil), a Russian sample-return mission, is due to for launch in 2009. It is expected to land on the far-side of Phobos at a region between 5° south to 5° north, and 230° west to 235° west...

(snip)

...The moon's remarkably grooved surface can be seen in the pictures quite clearly. The origin of these grooves is still debated. It is not known whether they are produced by ejecta thrown up from impacts on Mars, or if they result from the surface regolith, or soil, slipping into internal fissures....


Quite interesting, those scars on Phobos...
;-)

Image

Me thinks the "debate" is missing one crucical possibility for the origin of those scars. Do you think the same?
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Re: Revisiting PHOBOS. Close flyby pics of Mars Express.

Unread postby MGmirkin » Thu Jul 31, 2008 9:13 am

Y'think? ;)

(High Res Shot)
http://esamultimedia.esa.int/images/mar ... yby_H1.jpg

Notice the crater at left. Notice the groove travels over hill and dale. Ain't no fluid erosion, unless it's a squirt gun from the outside. EDM could probably do it. Granted it would have had to be some big, powerful filamentary currents to do it on that scale. I don't buy the "internal fissure" hypothesis. The fissures would have to basically ENCIRCLE Phobos! And what would cause fissures all the way around the body of the thing without basically fracturing it to pieces? Why are all the grooves in more or less the same direction?

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Re: Revisiting PHOBOS. Close flyby pics of Mars Express.

Unread postby nick c » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:01 am

MGmirkin wrote:I don't buy the "internal fissure" hypothesis.


If you did, then I would have a nice little bridge in Brooklyn that I would be willing to sell to you 8-)
The "internal fissure" hypothesis is more of the same old stuff, isn't it?
We have an enigma, so let's put the cause in the interior of the celestial body where it can't be falsified...at least not in the forseeable future.
Let's see, along with internal fissures, the same approach has served mainstream well...internally generated planetary dynamos, internally nuclear powered sun/stars, internal ice cores for comets, etc.

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Re: Revisiting PHOBOS. Close flyby pics of Mars Express.

Unread postby MGmirkin » Thu Jul 31, 2008 11:53 am

nick c wrote:
MGmirkin wrote:... internal ice cores for comets, etc.

Nick C


And yet, breaking up comets have little or no ice, water or other volatiles present. Curious! ;o]

(The Explosive Demise of Comet Linear)
http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch ... linear.htm

(What's in a Comet's Tail?)
http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2004/arch ... s-tail.htm

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Phobos - Hollow Theory by Hollowmen

Unread postby Komorikid » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:17 pm

I occasionally trawl through Richard Hoagland's Enterprise Mission site, not because I believe his theories but because it occasionally throws up anomalies in NASA and ESA space discoveries.

This little gem is one of his new foci. He believes it proves Phobos is man-made akin to his favourite theoretician Gene Roddenbery.

I think it displays all the hallmarks of plasma arc machining. It also brings into question the basic presumption of gravity equations the ESA used to make these statements about the mass of all celestial bodies.

This is the press release from ESA (European Space Agency)
General , Science 25 March, 2010 17:21
Radio science result from 2008 Phobos Flyby now accepted for publication

I’ve just heard that the technical paper discussing the mass and density of Phobos, as determined during the 2008 flyby, has been accepted by Geophysical Research Letters. The abstract is:

We report independent results from two subgroups of the Mars Express Radio Science (MaRS) team who independently analyzed Mars Express (MEX) radio tracking data for the purpose of determining consistently the gravitational attraction of the moon Phobos on the MEX spacecraft, and hence the mass of Phobos. New values for the gravitational parameter (GM=0.7127 ± 0.0021 x 10-³ km³/s²) and density of Phobos (1876 ± 20 kg/m³) provide meaningful new constraints on the corresponding range of the body's porosity (30% ± 5%), provide a basis for improved interpretation of the internal structure. We conclude that the interior of Phobos likely contains large voids. When applied to various hypotheses bearing on the origin of Phobos, these results are inconsistent with the proposition that Phobos is a captured asteroid


My interpretation is they are saying Phobos is hollow

And here is the image:
Image


Hi Res images can be found here:
http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Express/SEMK17CKP6G_1.html#subhead2

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Re: Phobos - Hollow Theory by Hollowmen

Unread postby Komorikid » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:34 pm

The evidence just keeps mounting for an electric cause.

This also from Geophysical Research Letters:"

... plasma and magnetic field effects in the solar wind near Mars suggest[ing] that a neutral gas (dust?)torus/ring resides along the orbit of the Martian satellite Phobos. Magnetic ‘cavities’(strong decreases of the magnetic field strength) coincident with strong plasma density increases (up to a factor of ten) are observed during the first elliptic transition orbits when the spacecraft approached the Phobos orbits ...."

-- "Indirect Evidences for a Gas/Dust Torus Along the Phobos Orbit ..."

Dubinin, E. M., R. Lundin, N. F. Pissarenko, S. V. Barabash, A. V. Zakharov, H. Koskinen, K. Schwingenshuh, and Ye. G. Yeroshenko (1990),
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Re: Phobos - Hollow Theory by Hollowmen

Unread postby GaryN » Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:04 pm

The rumors are that the cavities in Phobos are geometric, with sharply angled corners. I have looked, to no avail, for any official reports saying the same, but then I can't find anything at all about the latest gravity mapping flyby. I would think some of the results should be almost instantaneous, so what's the delay? I'm still waiting for Lunar images from the India and China missions too, and that has been many months now, so maybe I'm just too impatient. Or,...
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Re: Electric Phobos and Deimos

Unread postby nick c » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:45 am

This thread is now a composite of the following threads:

Phobos - Hollow Theory by Hollowmen
Revisiting PHOBOS. Close flyby pics of Mars Express.
Electric Scaring on Phobos
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Re: The 'Light Bluish' Areas On Phobos

Unread postby Sparky » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:50 pm

vadar wrote:Almost on-topic: the bright markings on Phobos.

Electrically-gouged grooves and chained craters (some criss-crossing) emanating from and around Phobos' Stickney crater, and the mysterious 'light bluish' areas (APOD April 10, below).

Arrowed in the first pic: Part-way along one of the grooves something appears to have exploded, and abruptly terminated that particular line of 'light bluish' overlay...or the other way round...

Image
-----------------------------------------------------
2008 April 10: Stickney Crater
-----------------------------------------------------
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080410.html
Stickney Crater
Credit: HiRISE, MRO, LPL (U. Arizona), NASA

Explanation: Stickney Crater, the largest crater on the martian moon Phobos, is named for Chloe Angeline Stickney Hall, mathematician and wife of astronomer Asaph Hall. Asaph Hall discovered both the Red Planet's moons in 1877. Over 9 kilometers across, Stickney is nearly half the diameter of Phobos itself, so large that the impact that blasted out the crater likely came close to shattering the tiny moon. This stunning, enhanced-color image of Stickney and surroundings was recorded by the HiRISE camera onboard the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter as it passed within some six thousand kilometers of Phobos last month. Even though the surface gravity of asteroid-like Phobos is less than 1/1000th Earth's gravity, streaks suggest loose material has slid down inside the crater walls over time. Light bluish regions near the crater's rim could indicate a relatively freshly exposed surface. The origin of the curious grooves along the surface is mysterious but may be related to the crater-forming impact.



Amazing photos....would "light bluish" regions probably be areas of continued electrical discharge.?
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