Electric sand and sandstorms

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Electric sandstorms

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:32 pm

* This topic goes back to the first incarnation of this forum. See below. Also see http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2007/arch07/071025dustdevils.htm and http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch05/050321electridevils.htm etc. Note that snow and hail may also be electrically levitated.
https://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=1538&sid=dbfafe133b3db19046d9ce859bbdb923#p1537
_Michael Gmirkin posted this on Jan 10 on the thread called Mainstream flirting more and more with the electric:

_(Desert Mystery Has Electrifying Answer)
http://www.livescience.com/environment/080109-electricity-wind.html
Quote:
_Sweeping sands across the Sahara and other dune expanses are blown by more than just wind, scientists have discovered. Powerful electric fields spring up near the desert floor and propel sand grains into the air.
_By accounting for this electricity, researchers say they can design better climate change models, and even explain features of the dust on Mars.
_Scientists have long been at a loss to explain why sand sweeping across the desert doesn't bounce higher when the wind gets stronger. But when researchers at the University of Michigan made the first calculations of electricity's role in this dance of particles, they were finally able to match their models with observations.

_On the next day I wrote:
WEEKLY PICK
- Quote: Powerful electric fields spring up near the desert floor and propel sand grains into the air.
- That's very gratifying news to me, as I was wondering a few months back why the Sahara seems to have stripes all over it, when seen from satellite views. The stripes go all the way to Saudi Arabia and beyond.
- Now get this. There is a similar striped pattern all over Greenland in the snow. I didn't check Antarctica or the North Pole etc. But I'll bet those stripes are also due to electric forces directing wind flow.
- I was seeing similar stripe patterns somewhere else recently in satellite images, but I don't recall where they were.
- I don't think I've seen stripes on Mars, but I was just remembering the huge dust storms there have a line of dozens or more dust devils moving parallel to each other across the surface [which should produce a striped pattern too].
- So here's a prediction. The Sahara and Greenland etc probably have similar lines of dust devils marching along evenly spaced from each other, producing the stripe patterns.
- I hope someone tells DaveS that this thread should be a pick of the week.

- @rc-us or someone on the Cymatics thread said the stripes in the Sahara's sand and Greenland's snow may relate to vibrations, which is what Cymatics is about. Well, I guess there are a number of ways that electrical forces may involve vibrations. Could such vibrations cover an area as big as the Sahara or Greenland? We know the answer is yes, but which specific vibrations would those involve? Sound waves?
- Thornhill likes to emphasize the habit of electrical discharges to machine solid [& other?] surfaces and pulverize much of the eroded material into fine powder [or sand? or snow?] and deposit it in layers in another area or on a different [celestial] body.
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Re: Electric sandstorms

Unread postby redeye » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:46 pm

Hola redeye: I was referring to the initial electric field that gets the process started, in the link Jim provided at the beginning of the thread.


From the article
. "In an electric field, dielectric particles become polarised, causing charge to gather on each side of the sand spheres. When two spheres touch, the charge redistributes across the boundary between them, creating a larger, doubly polarised particle."

This electric field is a mystery. I think the field is plasma/electricty, and it's causing the wind in a direct manner. But the scientists don't have a model for this. They haven't read Thornhill and friends.


I kind of see the whole troposphere as a distinct electrical field which is an expression of the charge differential between the surface of the Earth and the tropopause. There can be local fluctuations in this electrical field as I described in my original post. Atmospheric events such as cyclones, tornadoes, sandstorms and all other forms of weather are expressions of this...I think???

I half agree with your point that the sand is just a visual aid for what is happening in the atmosphere. Is it possible that in a arid environment such as a desert or Mars, that the absence of water, an efficient conductor, allows a greater charge differential to build up to the point where dust or sand become the most efficient conductor: sand/dust storms or dust devils rather than fog or rain???

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Re: Electric sandstorms

Unread postby starbiter » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:25 pm

Hello again redeye: The area around Vegas where i am now is very windy on a regular basis. But then so was Miami in the winter, summer thunderstorms, and hurricanes. I haven't paid attention to Vegas weather. In Miami, when we had high pressure to the North [spinning clockwise], and low pressure to the South [spinning counterclockwise] with us in the middle the winds were intense. I assume it's the same for Vegas. I'll try to notice. All this spinning is pretty obviously an electrical vortex.


When you mentioned the Troposphere i knew it was the lowest layer, but i wasn't thinking just above the surface. I was visualizing something higher up. You can't take me anywhere.


It's very interesting that Tolenio has plasma pulses from the Sun leaking into our atmosphere causing warm fronts that circle the planet. Too much! [Quake Prediction 2010].

michael
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Minnesota 'Martian dust storm'!

Unread postby mharratsc » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:21 pm

Anyone watching North American weather radar right now, check out the amazing band of weather scavenging electrons in a big spiral band, like one arm of a spiral galaxy. :)

Right now, the Twin Cities metro seems to be in a deposition point- no electrical scavenging is occuring, but we have this gentle patter of rain coming down. Makes me think that we're in the positive collection zone, with the negative scavenging occuring heavily to the south and slightly to the north.

Right now, the southern 'arm' of the storm reminds me of a giant spinning funnel in the sky from watching the animated radar... it really does seem that the band of heavy plasma in the arm of the clouds is rolling in a circular motion as the band travels over the surface.

I swear- these 35 tornados in the leading edge of this storm remind of the shots they have of the Martial dust devils kicking up those global dust storms on Mars! :)
Mike H.

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Re: Minnesota 'Martian dust storm'!

Unread postby mharratsc » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:45 pm

There also appeared to be a counter-rotating storm of slightly higher intensity in the Southern Ocean opposite the storm that traveled across the North American continent...
Mike H.

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Sand Geyser...

Unread postby tholden » Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:40 am

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Re: Sand Geyser...

Unread postby mharratsc » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:54 am

I'd seen this before on YouTube I think. The guy is asking for an explanation for the event. I'm not sure what is causing that to fountain, but I'm pretty sure that sand is very, very wet. There's no piling up at the base, and there is no blowing of it in the wind- I'm sure that sand is thoroughly soaked.
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington
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Re: Sand Geyser...

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Oct 06, 2010 10:40 am

* The edited video says the geyser is 9 meters high.
One commenter at the website said: For this sand geyser in Saudi Arabia, I think an escaping gas seems like the most likely propellant. It certainly doesn't look wet to me, and sand alone under the kind of pressure required for such a plume would actually tend to compress well enough to reduce the pore size between grains, which would make it flow poorly at best. If it was CO2 from a pressurized hydrocarbon recovery scheme the Saudi government might want to keep it quiet so as not to make people panic about the prospect of enormous gas leaks like the on in the video being caused by the industry that sustains that country. Same applies to a natural gas eruption. BTW, the pressure in a natural gas reservoir can be in excess of 12,000 psi, so that geyser certainly isn't beyond the capabilities of an escape of gas.
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Re: Electric sandstorms

Unread postby nick c » Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:17 pm

This thread is a combination of the following threads:

Sand that behaves like water?

Sand Geyser...

Electric sandstorms

Minnesota 'Martian dust storm'!

Dust storm and earthquake in SE Australia
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Re: Electric sand and sandstorms

Unread postby GaryN » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:23 pm

What do you think of this one Michael? The wind did it, they say, but
I had a look at the area on Google Earth, and that whole area looks
like, you guessed it, plasma erosion. An electric wind did it, IMO.
"No one had ever thought that wind could be this effective," said Kapp, a UA associate professor of geosciences. "You won't read in a textbook that wind is a major process in terms of breaking down rock material."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 162029.htm
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Electric sand and sandstorms

Unread postby starbiter » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:05 am

Hello Gary: It doesn't seem these folks have read Worlds in Collision. They have 3 million year models. And of course any molten rock [igneous] must be volcanic and or metamorphic. There could never be a source of surface heat, like plasma.



http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 162029.htm


[...]
"The folding accelerated 3 million years ago," Kapp said. "That's when the wind erosion turned on. I don't think it's a coincidence.


me again,
The map link below shows dune shapes. I think this is the area under discussion, but i'm not sure. I wish they gave us a map link.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source= ... 9&t=p&z=10


They're speaking Greek and i'm speaking Pig Latin. There isn't going to be any common ground.

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Sahara sands make Earth glow orange

Unread postby comingfrom » Sun Mar 13, 2016 4:54 pm

Gary posted a link to this page with this image in another thread.
I think it is worth opening a topic to discuss. I would like to know what others think about
1. the orange glow(and the astronaut's explanation for it), and
2. the darker inner region in the Milky Way.

Image

I thought it interesting, in the accompanying text, that NASA reports what the Astronaut said when he posted his image on social media, and then immediately goes into talking about other space station related stuff, and not clarifying anything more about the image.

If it turns out, that the orange glow is not from Sahara sands, I guess they can say an astronaut just presumed that. But meanwhile, they seem to be endorsing the explanation, by reporting it.

But that just seems incredible to me. Sand doesn't glow, does it? And even if it does (I guessing, from the heat from the Sun), what is the glow reflecting off? That glow looks high above the atmosphere to me.

The second thing that puzzled me about this image, is the Milky Way itself. It isn't dark in the inner region like that, is it? I look at it most nights, and I don't remember it being like that. The inner region is the area of most dense star population, and is (should be) the brightest, looking at the galaxy side on. I just wonder, does it look right to you?

Norman has put this image at a thread in Insights section.

Image

This starmap image shows a thin dark inner region at the southern end. Is that what we are looking at in the Astronaut's photo?

~Paul
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Re: Sahara sands make Earth glow orange

Unread postby GaryN » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:24 pm

Most of the airglow layers are below the ISS altitude.
Earth, Night Glow, Aurora and Atmosphere.
http://auroranightglow.blogspot.ca/2012 ... -glow.html
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Sahara sands make Earth glow orange

Unread postby seasmith » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:54 pm

~Image
Couldn't find the link to the "accompanying text" that comingfrom mentioned, so it's hard to form an opinion,
but here is a site with many pics and explanations of Earth's geocorona.

The pinkish glow could be earth-shine enhanced by solar UV excitation of the plasmasphere, if it's not just an artifact of lens or port hole geometry.

The orange more likely an IR phenomena, maybe from Sahara-heated troposphere ?

How was the image captured?

http://sciexplorer.blogspot.com/2012/01 ... cture.html

To see the dark areas of the Milky Way, use a clear polarizing filter.
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Re: Sahara sands make Earth glow orange

Unread postby MattEU » Mon Mar 14, 2016 6:57 am

Gary, is this sort of thing mentioned in your EU book being published soon about the possible extraterrestrial origin of our planets sands?
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