Rock Strata Formation

[Lloyd]

Cardona corrected me in my mistaken view that proto-Saturn's disk was the source of sedimentary rock formation on Earth and other satellites. Instead, proto-Saturn itself was the source of the dust that formed sedimentary rock. When proto-Saturn periodically flared up, it ejected dust perhaps in all directions. The disk was then blown away in an equatorial direction, whereas Earth, Mars and Venus were under its south pole.

[allynh]

Lloyd Pye mentioned this video in one of his BlogVerts.

Yosemite Nature Notes - Episode 9 - Frazil Ice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V9p4mFEYXc

This is how sediments can move and form. They don't just go down layer-by-layer, you can have multiple layers being placed in minutes, then have whole sections get cut out and replaced.

Read through the thread and see what I mean.

[601L1n9FR09]

Great post Lloyd!
Berthault and Julienne pretty much demolish Steno's Principles of stratigraphy which have been presumed since the 1600s, all of them seem so intuitive no one really did much in the way of lab work. So far the main stream has been doing their best to ignore this work and or lampoon the authors. Last thing I read about Berthault dismisses him as a <gasp!!!> creationist. So nice to see their work making it into places like this. I have not seen anyone invalidating their work scientifically. I predict it will never be invalidated but will remain lunatic fringe for at least another decade.
Steno's principles were the foundation of geological uniformity. The "experts" have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

[starbiter]

Hello lloyd: Your posting of the Berthault videos one year ago changed the way i perceive the geologic process. Without the videos i'd still be lost. The slurry runoff the videos demonstrate are a natural extension of the catastrophic duning process i propose. Just substitute slosh for tidal wave.

Thanks again, michael steinbacher

[webolife]

Just wanted to take this rare opportunity to agree with Starbiter on this point. My own catastrophic view has incorporated Guy Berthault's view of stratigraphy before I ever heard of his excellent work. I was first struck by multiple layering when I purchased one of those little sandscape frames, where the different sizes of particles "automatically" differentiate to form multiple layers in a single depositional event. The key is deposition by a current vs. Steno's uniformitarian view premised on the "shake a bottle of dirty water and let it settle" paradigm. I included this concept in my course on catastrophic earth history back in the 80's, and was pleased indeed when about 7 years ago I ran across the Berthault videos. Two decades later I still start the day by tipping over that frame and watching the grains sort and layer with no regard whatever for the "Law of Superposition"

[601L1n9FR09]

Starbiter, just so you know, I happen to be a YEC and I suspect there are more out here that embrace EU/PC.
I am also very Velikovskian in my views and have been a catastrophist from my youth. Creationists come in all flavors, I myself am down with Bernard Northrup's model which is not widely embraced by the rest of the community.
Your observation that more should be embracing the EU and especially comparative mythology assumes that all of us are the same and perhaps not scientific enough in our thinking. An increasing number of creationists refuse to call creationism science (myself included, I go with creation research). From my angle I can't see some one that has read Dr. V. being so dismissive of creation models or research. I have seen more than one post expressing the desire to keep religion out of these discussions. I suspect many believers do precisely that. For my part, I am an 8th grade graduate and as a catastrophist from early on have grown accustomed to my ideas and theories being marginalized. Being new at this I do not know how to put links in but there is one involving Chuck Missler and EU. I put my two cents in there too. I hope you can find it. I think we agree on most of what I have seen you post but I read slow. I will turn my text reader loose on your web site tonight and see just how much we agree maybe.

At any rate I am really enjoying all the posts in this forum.

[starbiter]

Hello 601L1n9FR09: I'm not sure how to pronounce your name. I hope i didn't say anything disparaging about creationists. I certainly didn't mean to. I'm talking to a Ph.D geology professor who is a creationist. He's helping me. He seems pretty scientific.

I haven't found a creationist yet that considers the events during Exodus. It sounds like You may be an exception. I was shocked to see creationist books that ignored the Plagues of Egypt. But then a pattern developed. Maybe i've just met the wrong people.

I mentioned creationism because Web mentioned that he is a creationist, if my memory serves. Except for my lack of faith, i'm a creationist. I even believe in the Great Flood, the Tower of Bable, and the end of the Golden Age. I hope to present my ideas to creationist groups in the future, if they will have me.

michael steinbacher

It might be best to drop the subject. I didn't want anyone to think i have negative thoughts concerning this subject.

[Lloyd]

601 said: From my angle I can't see some one that has read Dr. V. being so dismissive of creation models or research. I have seen more than one post expressing the desire to keep religion out of these discussions. I suspect many believers do precisely that. For my part, I am an 8th grade graduate and as a catastrophist from early on have grown accustomed to my ideas and theories being marginalized. Being new at this I do not know how to put links in but there is one involving Chuck Missler and EU.

* The owners of this site, such as Dave T, don't seem to mind discussion of religion etc too much, as long as it's pertinent to a topic. There are several boards on this forum and each one is meant to deal with specific topics for discussion. This board is for discussion of EU or plasma science relating to the planets, asteroids etc. The NIAMI board allows discussion of nearly anything, including creationism, if it's objective and not argumentative. They prefer to avoid religious and political arguments.
* If you want to make a link to any website or webpage, just make sure the http:// portion is included and that there is no punctuation immediately after the link. You can follow a link with anything, if you include a space first. If you follow that direction, the link will automatically work as soon as you submit the post. You can also highlight the link and then click on the URL button above the text box, but that isn't necessary. To highlight letters or words etc, hold down the shift key and press one of the arrow keys. It's necessary to highlight text in that way before clicking on the B [for Boldface], i [for italicize], u [for underline], quote, etc and esp. the Img [for Image] keys.
* Folks around here aren't particularly dismissive of Velikovsky. When Talbott, Cardona et al first read Velikovsky in the late 60s and later, they found that he seemed to be correct about Saturn, but wrong about the dating and details of the Mars and Venus events. Those events seem to have occurred a few hundred years before the time of Abraham, about 4300 to 4500 years ago. This thread on the Cardona Interview, http://thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpBB3/v ... =10&t=3824, has a lot of info about the Saturn Age, which included Venus and Mars, but they're not mentioned much in that thread.
* Rock strata formation apparently resulted from a combination of Saturn flare deposits through the atmosphere, conflagrations and floods.
* I'm thinking of starting a thread on History, which could include discussion of Velikovsky's theories, as mentioned in WiC and AiC.

[601L1n9FR09]

Lloyd.
COOL!
Starbiter,
COOL!
My friends call me....well never mind that,
pronounce it boiling frog and don't listen to my friends.

Jay

[webolife]

Boliling Frog... I get it!
Kind of a fabian socialism thing...

[601L1n9FR09]

Let's put it this way. I am not much for hot tubs.

[webolife]

bOILINg it would help if I could spell.............
Fabian socialism, like the principle of uniformity, is premised on slow imperceptible changes over time.
Based on the seige of Massada in AD 70, when Roman Commander Quintus Fabius built the ramp stone by stone to the top of the mesa Massada.

[Lloyd]

I said last time: I'm thinking of starting a thread on History, which could include discussion of Velikovsky's theories, as mentioned in WiC and AiC.

* I started the thread here, http://thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpBB3/v ... =10&t=4469, and I called it Earth History, but I welcome discussion of any aspect of Earth or Human History.

[601L1n9FR09]

Hey Webo!
I told you I read slow. The things I learn on this site. I have heard that term and always wondered where it came from (and often what it meant). We are practically neighbors. Certainly a hospitable crowd here.
Starbiter, I like your ideas.

[Lloyd]

Gradualism Versus Catastrophism
* That's the title of the last 2 TPODs, which I paraphrased at http://thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpBB3/v ... 072#p51072. They mention Guy Berthault's Fundamental Experiments in Stratification. This thread was started based on the findings at http://www.sedimentology.fr, which sound very similar to the TPOD descriptions of Berthault's findings. Here's a good place to start looking for more info on the latter: http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=e ... 657b732f11