## Solar wind and storms

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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james weninger
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### Re: direction of solar current in relation to planetary orbits

bdw000 wrote:I do not remember reading anywhere how the current flow through the sun relates to the planetary orbits.

Anyone have any links to where this is discussed? Or, post your brief response here.

The reason I ask is that it sure would be convenient if the current flow was perpendicular to the ecliptic (I believe that is the model used here for galaxies: a flow of current perpendicular to the galactic plane [as well as flows through the arms within the plane]). Anyone remember the left hand rule? If the current flow is perpendicular to the ecliptic, that sure would make me think that the current flow has something (no matter how major or minor) to do with the planetary orbits. If this seems unreasonable please remember I am no expert and just speculating. I have no idea how this could relate to the moon's orbit around the earth . . .

I seem to get two different views when reading this website or other sources: either stars are at some point along a Birkeland current, or current is flowing to the star from all around (these are my impressions: please point out if they are flawed!).

It just seems to me that there is probably a standard answer here and I seem to have missed it.
You are correct: the ecliptic is nearly perpendicular to the path of the sun through space (current flow). And yes,the moon's orbit is involved too. Your question may be:why does the plane of the ecliptic not coincide exactly with the plane of the moons orbit? The short answer is that the path of the sun is not linear,but a spiral. If the sun was traveling in a straight line,all orbits would be perpendicular to that line. If the sun's direction of travel changes (spirals),would you expect every orbital plane to instantaneously change to the same degree?

As an example: pick a star in the double helix nebula.(Find a picture of the nebula to help visualize). Imagine it has planets and moons in orbit around it. Would you expect those planets to all orbit perpendicularly to the star's current direction of travel? Or would you expect the orbital planes of the planets to stay perpendicular to the general axis of this helix? Or would you expect a distribution between these two,as magnetic forces twist each orbit ,while orbital angular momentum retards this twisting.

As far as the direction of travel of the sun: Remember,according to mythology,we are moving about the Pleiades. Is it then a shock to find that the proper motion of the pleiades is nearly perpendicular to the ecliptic?

james weninger
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### Re: direction of solar current in relation to planetary orbits

Another quick point: Notice that the moon frequently occults(eclipses) the Pleiades. In other words, the axis of the moon's revolution about earth stays VERY nearly perpendicular to the Pleiades. What does this suggest about the relative charge of earth and moon? Remember,the charged earth spinning on it's axis precesses wildly (23.5 degrees)about an axis exactly 90 degrees away from the Pleiades. So to ask in another way:why does the earth-moon axis NOT precess as wildly as earth spin axis does?

seasmith
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### Re: direction of solar current in relation to planetary orbits

Any thoughts as to if this transmitter may be on an axis of the spiral progression of our solar system/galaxy ? [The image looks kind of head-on]

NASA's Swift, Fermi Probe Fireworks From a Flaring Gamma-Ray Star
Astronomers using NASA's Swift satellite and Fermi Gamma-ray Space Telescope are seeing frequent blasts from a stellar remnant 30,000 light-years away. The high-energy fireworks arise from a rare type of neutron star known as a soft-gamma-ray repeater. Such objects unpredictably send out a series of X-ray and gamma-ray flares.

"At times, this remarkable object has erupted with more than a hundred flares in as little as 20 minutes," said Loredana Vetere, who is coordinating the Swift observations at Pennsylvania State University. "The most intense flares emitted more total energy than the sun does in 20 years."

The object, which has long been known as an X-ray source, lies in the southern constellation Norma. During the past two years, astronomers have identified pulsing radio and X-ray signals from it. The object began a series of modest eruptions on Oct. 3, 2008, then settled down. It roared back to life Jan. 22 with an intense episode.
Because of the recent outbursts, astronomers will classify the object as a soft-gamma-ray repeater -- only the sixth known. In 2004, a giant flare from another soft-gamma-ray repeater was so intense it measurably affected Earth's upper atmosphere from 50,000 light-years away.
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/swift ... eworks.htm

http://www.universetoday.com/guide-to-s ... ons/norma/

MGmirkin
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### Re: direction of solar current in relation to planetary orbits

bdw000 wrote:I do not remember reading anywhere how the current flow through the sun relates to the planetary orbits.

Anyone have any links to where this is discussed?
With regards to capture and orbital stabilization / circularization to a "least interaction" configuration via charge exchange, Thornhill makes some comments here:

(Assembling the Solar System)
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=7y7d3dn5
Thornhill wrote:Perhaps the most significant problem with the gravity-only model is how to explain the circularity and long term stability of planetary orbits. After all, more than two bodies moving under the influence of gravity produce a chaotic system. There is no restoring force when a planet is perturbed in its orbit. Under Newtonian law, the solar system today cannot be the same as it was even in the recent past ... Even today, crossing the ecliptic plane is where comets are most likely to fragment. The enhanced electromagnetic forces encountered in the plane of the ecliptic may cause damped oscillations in and out of the plane until capture is complete. The presence of the newcomer is felt electrically by those planets that encounter its coma or cometary tail. Charge transfer occurs via the filamentary currents in the tail, which serves to space the orbits of both bodies until charge transfer is minimized. Circularization of orbits also occurs due to charge exchange with the solar wind until the voltage excursions in the Sun’s weak radial electric field are minimized ... Planets do not collide. Electrical forces and modification of orbits by charge exchange dominate in a close encounter. Mars bears the fresh electrical scars of its entry into the solar system with the mighty gash of Valles Marineris and the giant raised lightning blisters on the Tharsis bulge. An interplanetary discharge is the only way for Martian meteorites to have been launched into space.
and here:

(Planet Birthing)
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=rbkq9dj2
Thornhill wrote:in an electric universe there is a damping mechanism to limit wild excursions. It seems that exchange of charge between planets via their magnetotails (plasma sheaths) is capable of maintaining orbital spacing so as to limit further electrical interaction. This mechanism may provide a physical basis for Bode’s relationship. And a planet moving eccentrically in the weak electric field of a star suffers a cometary discharge that acts to reduce the eccentricity of its orbit. The effect has been noted for tiny solar comets and mysteriously termed a “non-gravitational” force. It is more effective than tidal interactions at circularising orbits.
and here:

(Synopsis - 7. Planets)
http://www.holoscience.com/synopsis.php?page=7
Thornhill wrote:In the Electric Universe model, gravity itself is simply an electrostatic dipolar force. So planetary orbits are stabilized against gravitational chaos by exchange of electric charge through their plasma tails (Venus is still doing so strongly, judging by its "cometary" magnetotail, and it has the most circular orbit of any planet) and consequent modification of the gravity of each body. Planets will quickly assume orbits that ensure the least electrical interaction. Impacts between large bodies are avoided and capture rendered more probable by exchange of electric charge between them. Capture of our Moon becomes the only option, it cannot have been created from the Earth.
Perhaps not the exact answer you were looking for, but at least somewhat on topic...

Regards,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

james weninger
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### Re: direction of solar current in relation to planetary orbits

Michael,
Your post addresses why planets are where they are WITHIN their plane of rotation. I was stating the orientation of that plane relative to the sun's path(current flow). Together,I believe they do account for the orbits of the planets relative to the sun
Jim

bdw000
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### Re: direction of solar current in relation to planetary orbits

james weninger wrote:Michael,
Your post addresses why planets are where they are WITHIN their plane of rotation. I was stating the orientation of that plane relative to the sun's path(current flow). Together,I believe they do account for the orbits of the planets relative to the sun
Jim
Thanks James and Michael.

My opinion right now is that a "left hand rule" effect on the planetary orbits would not conflict with the ideas in Michael's post. Correct me if that seems wrong.

MGmirkin
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### Re: direction of solar current in relation to planetary orbits

james weninger wrote:I was stating the orientation of that plane relative to the sun's path(current flow). Together,I believe they do account for the orbits of the planets relative to the sun
Jim
Haven't looked into that specifically, so don't have an answer off the top of the head... Do you mean, or does that include reference to, the tilt of some planets' orbits around the sun, with reference to the sun's equatorial plane? IE, why some planets or bodies aren't parallel to the equatorial plane, but their orbits are tilted with respect to it? (As opposed to the circularization of orbits from more to less eccentric over time or the spacing of the planets with respect to each other into orbital shells...)

Or are we talking the combined motion of the planets orbiting around the sun AND the motion of the sun through space (with planets in tow)? IE, rather than considering the problem with respect to just the sun and the planets "in vacuo" (or in their own reference frame with respect to each other) so-to-speak, considering the problem of the sun and planets motions from the point of view of an outside observer watching the whole system move through space with respect to outside objects (essentially considering more complicated paths for the objects than just the orbits of the planets with respect to the sun: moving orbits around a moving sun would tend to perhaps be more spiral or looping when considered with respect to some other external frame of reference)?

Not that I have an answer for the specific questions, just clarifying the questions so maybe if there *is* an answer somewhere it could be discerned.

Regards,
~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

james weninger
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:49 pm

### Re: direction of solar current in relation to planetary orbits

Seasmith,
This is only speculation, but that gamma ray source could be a clue to the spiraling progression of the galaxy. Just like the fact that we are looking nearly down Vega's spin axis is a clue to the spiraling path of the sun through our galaxy. ( mainstream scientists still say it's coincidence that 1.Vega is near the apex of sun's way AND 2. Vega's spin axis is only ~5 degrees off axis from us AND 3. Earth's spin axis is precessing towards Vega)
Any believer in EU theory should see that this collective tendency to spin along our axis of travel is required,not just a coincidence Jim

james weninger
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Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:49 pm

### Re: direction of solar current in relation to planetary orbits

bdw000,
I think the left hand rule is exactly the right model to use to determine orbital planes of planets, and how those planes align in the external magnetic field. We must be careful. While the mainstream scientific community neglects plasma behavior, we should not jump to the other extreme. Is a planet circling the sun a plasma stream? Or is it better in this case to treat a planet like a simple charged sphere, and use standard electrodynamics to calculate orbital alignments? You will find that the simpler electrodynamic model works.

james weninger
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### Re: direction of solar current in relation to planetary orbits

Michael,
If the solar system is spiraling through space due to electromagnetic forces,then we may expect all magnetic poles in that system to spiral (the real cause of what we call precession). This means the sun too precesses,and therefore to use the equatorial plane of the sun as a reference only confuses the calculation of orbital planes of planets.
This is not to say that the orientation of the sun's poles doesn't affect the planets. It is just easier to start with the sun's path through the galaxy as a reference frame,and the interactions between sun and planets as secondary to determining orbital planes.

Solar
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### Re: direction of solar current in relation to planetary orbits

james weninger wrote:Another quick point: Notice that the moon frequently occults(eclipses) the Pleiades. In other words, the axis of the moon's revolution about earth stays VERY nearly perpendicular to the Pleiades. What does this suggest about the relative charge of earth and moon? Remember,the charged earth spinning on it's axis precesses wildly (23.5 degrees)about an axis exactly 90 degrees away from the Pleiades. So to ask in another way:why does the earth-moon axis NOT precess as wildly as earth spin axis does?
That's a great EU/PC question.

'Resonant EM coupled co-rotation' of electro-plasma structure.'(?)

Plasma and it's 'symbiotic' relationship with electricity and magnetism displays hierarchical 'modes' of 'coupling'. One can have 'systems' demonstrating "bulk-flow", "anomalous transport" etc.

The Earth/Moon electro-plasma environment can be regard as a 'co-rotating system' of two interacting celestial bodies. The Earth has its own electro-plasma dynamic unique to it; as does the moon. Together, they form a 'system' having its own EM/gravitational continuum of "field(s)" that can be influenced as a 'whole' while 'individul members' of that 'whole' still undergo aspects unique to themselves.

So the Earth-Moon axis, as its own 'co-rotating' hierarchical electro-plasma structure or continuum, can and obviously does, electromagnetically precess in a totally different manner than the individual components. This is obviously applicable in relation to each planet and it's moons, then to the planetary 'systems' together in relation to the Sun, then with the solar system on out to the "local group", then towards the particular "Arm" of the galaxy etc.

We know that the qualities of EM-plasma interactions is something that doesn't appear to given much consideration in 'mainstream' astronomy/astrophysics. Precession, imho, doesn't appear to have anything whatsoever to do with the 'compactification towards center' qualities of gravity, which to me acts like a 'negative electrostatic polar force'. Neither does the quality of rotation or spin. But there has to be a connection in the above manner owing to the hierarchical nature of the plasma.

If we take a wire energized by an electric current it develops an electromagnetic field (Earth). Take another wire; do the same (Moon) and bring them close together. The fields combine overall as a whole but still maintain their individual fields respectively. The further one gets from the two fields; the more they act as one continuos field overall (Earth/Moon 'system'). I think Don Scott gives an example of this somewhere in his book but I can't find it atm.

That's why the Earth-Moon axis does not precess as wildly as Earth's individual spin axis. They are two different aspects of one hierarchical electro-plasma 'system'. One, the precession aspect of the Earth-Moon axis, as a whole, is influenced differently, such as by scaled variations in current density (consider "step-down transformer" dynamic here), or "induction" than the Earth axis itself.

"... each hierarchy of structure and interaction does not close by itself but interrelates to other hierarchies." - from the book "Plasma Astrophysics"
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden

Lloyd
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### Super Solar Storm 2012

* Has this topic been discussed anywhere on this forum?
* The video, Super Solar Storm 2012, at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_TzIUlaQok says a solar superstorm is expected to occur about 2012, that would knock out much or all of the world's electrical infrastructure, electronics, satellites etc. A similar event in 1859 was said to have harmed telegraph technology as well as starting brush fires.
* Here's all I've found on the forum previously discussed.
http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... torm#p1635
http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... torm#p4825
http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... orm#p17535
http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... orm#p18183

Grey Cloud
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### Re: Super Solar Storm 2012

Hi Lloyd,
How recent was the news prog? I remember that a couple of years ago NASA were saying that the next solar max would be in 2012 but that was before the current sun spot cycle failed to materialise. I seem to recall that they were also predicting that it would be high maximum too.
From my perspective I have several reservations:
1. It's Fox News.
2. It featured Michio Kaku.
3. They can't, as far as I'm aware, predict the strength or direction of solar flares or CMEs.
4. They rarely talk of anything other than the economic cost or consequences.

It would be worth tracking down this 'brand new' report if only to rule it out. Anything on Fox News' website?
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

junglelord
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### Re: Super Solar Storm 2012

I'm waiting for the crop circle prophecy to come true on July 7th. Yesterday the most agressive sunspot of the new cycle, just appeared...MMMMM
SUNSPOT ALERT: The most active sunspot of the year so far is emerging in the sun's southern hemisphere: movie. Sunspot 1024 has at least a dozen individual dark cores and it is crackling with B-class solar flares.

The magnetic polarity of sunspot 1024 identifies it as a member of new Solar Cycle 24. Its rapid emergence on July 3rd and 4th continues the recent (few-month) trend of intensifying new-cycle activity. This sunspot is the best offering yet from the young solar cycle. Monitoring is encouraged.
Yup, I'm watching....
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
— Nikola Tesla
Casting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.
— Junglelord.
Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.
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Grey Cloud
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### Re: Super Solar Storm 2012

Hi JL,
Well spotted, I looked Friday and nothing was happening and I forgot to look on Saturday. It will be interesting to see if this sunspot has any effect on the Sarychev Peak volcano. And, as you say, there is Tuesday to look forward too.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

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