Earth - electric oceans

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Tsunami electric signal

Unread postby mharratsc » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:06 pm

Kind of the old question "Which came first: the chicken or the egg?" :?

Mainstream & Co. want everyone to believe that electrical/EM effects are the results of mechanical phenomena we see on the planet. However...

I personally think they have it all backwards. ;)
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Re: Tsunami electric signal

Unread postby GaryN » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:31 pm

Mike H.

Kind of the old question "Which came first: the chicken or the egg?"


I think we have to accept, that from the smallest to the largest scale, that charge and vibration work hand-in-hand, that each can be the cause or result of the other, and also that matter is just an appearance, occurring when charge and vibration are performing a particular( :roll: ) dance.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Tsunami electric signal

Unread postby MrAmsterdam » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:14 am

mharratsc wrote:I can't explain the physics of it, but something in my subconscious strongly suspects that 'fault lines' in the Earth as well as 'volcanic zones', and even 'tornado alleys' are simply different expressions of telluric-to-atmospheric current paths.

- Hurricanes, from what I've gathered, do not show any exempliary electrical effects (other than the base cyclonic nature of them, which most attribute simply to planetary rotation and hydrodynamic effects), but I wonder...
Most hurricanes form in particular 'bands' around the planet. Check out the picture from that recent TPOD:

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2009/ ... stream.jpg
Dual bands of ultraviolet light mark streams of plasma circling Earth's equator.
Credit: NASA IMAGE Satellite/University of California Berkeley.


I wonder if tornado alleys also form under these 'bands' (which I think are a [url2=http://www.plasma-universe.com/Diocotron_instability]diocotron instability[/url2] like the storm bands of the gas giant planets?



Well......

Lets see if there are any electric or plasma phenomena correlated to hurricanes . Put your -electric universe- glasses on and look again....

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/enviro ... _drop.html

In a recent study, Xiaolei Zou and Yonghui Wu, researchers at Florida State University found that variations of ozone levels from the surface to the upper atmosphere are closely related to the formation, intensification and movement of a hurricane.

Zou and Wu noticed that over 100 miles, the area of a hurricane typically has low levels of ozone from the surface to the top of the hurricane. Whenever a hurricane intensifies, it appears that the ozone levels throughout the storm decrease. When they looked at the storm with ozone data a hurricane’s eye becomes very clear. Because forecasters always try to pinpoint the eye of the hurricane, this knowledge will help with locating the exact position and lead to better tracking.

Check this picture; http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/1173 ... neFig1.jpg

Ozone Around Hurricane Erin -- This image shows the distribution of total ozone in and around Hurricane Erin on 12 September, 2001. Erin is represented in the middle of the image by a red dot with two "arms." The ozone level within the center of the hurricane is high (depicted in green). Surrounding the hurricane are lower levels of total ozone (depicted in blue). Within the core of the hurricane there is a weak downward motion which brings down ozone rich air from the upper atmosphere into the core of hurricane and therefore increases the total ozone there, while upward lift of atmosphere is dominant surrounding the hurricane eyewall. Credit: Florida State University


Okay, so there is change in ozone levels arround a 100 mile radius. And "The ozone level within the center of the hurricane is high (depicted in green)"

Fine. So where is this ozone coming from? How is ozone normally created?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone#Production

Corona discharge method


This is the most popular type of ozone generator for most industrial and personal uses. While variations of the "hot spark" coronal discharge method of ozone production exist, including medical grade and industrial grade ozone generators, these units usually work by means of a corona discharge tube.[37] They are typically very cost-effective and do not require an oxygen source other than the ambient air. However, they also produce nitrogen oxides as a by-product. Use of an air dryer can reduce or eliminate nitric acid formation by removing water vapor and increase ozone production. Use of an oxygen concentrator can further increase the ozone production and further reduce the risk of nitric acid formation by removing not only the water vapor, but also the bulk of the nitrogen.
[edit] Ultraviolet light

UV ozone generators
, or very-ultraviolet (VUV) ozone generators, employ a light source that generates a narrow-band ultraviolet light, a subset of that produced by the Sun. The Sun's UV sustains the ozone layer in the stratosphere of Earth.[38]

While standard UV ozone generators tend to be less expensive,[clarification needed] they usually produce ozone with a concentration of about 0.5% or lower. Another disadvantage of this method is that it requires the air (oxygen) to be exposed to the UV source for a longer amount of time, and any gas that is not exposed to the UV source will not be treated. This makes UV generators impractical for use in situations that deal with rapidly moving air or water streams (in-duct air sterilization, for example). Production of ozone is one of the potential dangers of ultraviolet germicidal irradiation. VUV ozone generators are used in swimming pool and spa applications ranging to millions of gallons of water. VUV ozone generators, unlike corona discharge generators, do not produce harmful nitrogen by-products and also unlike corona discharge systems, VUV ozone generators work extremely well in humid air environments. There is also not normally a need for expensive off-gas mechanisms, and no need for air driers or oxygen concentrators which require extra costs and maintenance.

[edit] Cold plasma

In the cold plasma method, pure oxygen gas is exposed to a plasma created by dielectric barrier discharge. The diatomic oxygen is split into single atoms, which then recombine in triplets to form ozone.

Cold plasma machines utilize pure oxygen as the input source and produce a maximum concentration of about 5% ozone. They produce far greater quantities of ozone in a given space of time compared to ultraviolet production. However, because cold plasma ozone generators are very expensive, they are found less frequently than the previous two types.

The discharges manifest as filamentary transfer of electrons (micro discharges) in a gap between two electrodes. In order to evenly distribute the micro discharges, a dielectric insulator must be used to separate the metallic electrodes and to prevent arcing.

Some cold plasma units also have the capability of producing short-lived allotropes of oxygen which include O4, O5, O6, O7, etc. These anions are even more reactive than ordinary O3.



So, now I can speculate about the relationship of hurricanes, ozone and the earth's plasmastream....

What do you guys think?
Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -Nikola Tesla -1934
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Re: Tsunami electric signal

Unread postby mharratsc » Mon Jan 25, 2010 8:44 am

Within the core of the hurricane there is a weak downward motion which brings down ozone rich air from the upper atmosphere into the core of hurricane and therefore increases the total ozone there, while upward lift of atmosphere is dominant surrounding the hurricane eyewall.


Sound like maybe a plasma double-layer to anyone? Up + down = circuit in my book! o.O

Excellent find, MrA! That filled in some of the space regarding the electrical nature of hurricanes for me, for certain!

So a hurricane is literally a hole punch right through almost the entirety of the atmosphere, unilke our other phenomena like tornados and lightning- there is no electrical equalization going on between the layers of our atmosphere during a hurricane- that sucker is pulling the ozone layer down to ground zero! :shock:

On another note- todays TPOD ([url2=http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2010/arch10/100125kimberlite.htm]The Electrical Origin of Kimberlite Pipes[/url2]) really gave me a warm fuzzy- seems there's already been research done that seems to point to my suspicions being correct, at least in part.

The New Concepts in Global Tectonics Newsletter issue No 43 of June 2007, published an important paper by the Russian scientist Konstantin K. Khazanovitch-Wulf who proposed that kimberlites and related rocks are linked to disruptions in the Earth’s electric field caused by the electromagnetic effect of a passing cosmic body or meteorite. Earlier research by Russian scientists also point to earthquakes being caused by subterranean electric discharges, and which could also trigger kimberlite eruptions. In his model it is the actual physical disruption of the earth’s electrical field by the electrically active interloper that initiated the kimberlite eruptions, and presumably also the associated mass species extinctions.
(highlight mine)

So- kimberlite pipes as a form of giant fulgurite/electrical cratering, from close passage of another cosmic body, creating a magma eruption.

So here we have validation, at least, of the notion that electricity causing a magmatic event that brought magma to the surface from a fair depth.

So back to standard volcanos. Standard volcanoes do not require other cosmic bodies, obviously. Longer in duration than an earthquake, a quasi-sustained circuit, perhaps?

Earlier research by Russian scientists also point to earthquakes being caused by subterranean electric discharges, and which could also trigger kimberlite eruptions.


So electric earthquakes, and electric magma....

I wonder- has anyone checked above volcanos or earthquake areas for ozone concentrations, as they have for this hurricane study? I wouldn't be a bit surprised at all to find some interesting data to be found above those events, as well... and maybe a rational explanation for those 'earthquake lights' people have been spotting, ya think? :)

And by the way- here's a shout-out to Louis Hissink and the Thunderbolts team for putting out this TPOD with some info to back up my ramblings on this subject! :)
Mike H.

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Re: Tsunami electric signal

Unread postby starbiter » Mon Jan 25, 2010 9:37 am

Just a thought. Instead of the discharge allowing magma to flow from below, maybe the discharge caused the igneous/fire rock. Surrounding calderas with kimberlite pipes are minerals that were repulsed by the discharge. In some cases gold. It seems to be electric sorting. The smelter from CO. i mentioned on the duning thread, noticed this in the field, but couldn't understand the source of electricity. Since reading The Electric Universe his eyes have opened. The diamonds in the kimberlite pipe seem to be electrically caused crystals. There is a caldera just west of CO Mike's home with all of these factors.

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Re: Tsunami electric signal

Unread postby jjohnson » Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:56 am

Here's another site with info about ozone. http://www.atmosphere.mpg.de/enid/208.html
I'd thought ozone was a form of ionized oxygen, but it's not: it's 3 oxygen atoms (O3) in a stable configuration, but less stable than tightly bound O2. O3 typically breaks down under the influence of UV light in the stratosphere [ 2 O3 -> 3 O2 ] recombining into "regular O2. This is apparently a net neutral reaction, only requiring the initial UV photon(s) to initiate the breakdown and recombination. Higher energy photons cause the opposite reaction, splitting the O2's and recombining them into O3's. This is how ozone helps shield the surface from excessive UV radiation, but it's been thinning for decades. The richest ozone altitude is noted to be at about 25 km msl.

If these ozone molecules are not charged, what force is attracting them from around 80,000 feet clear down into the troposphere? The low air pressure in the core of the hurricane sitting below? What do they do down there? Are they a part of the energy cycle somehow, or just "riders on the storm"? I'd be interested to know more detail about the chemistry and heat cycles of the saturated air comprising a hurricane. The ring wall surrounding the eye has been described as a continuous circle of thunderstorms, so lightning events are certainly present, along with tornadoes and waterspouts and other suspected EU components.
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Re: Tsunami electric signal

Unread postby mharratsc » Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:04 pm

I've spent the past 45 minutes trying to figure out how ozone is created by electrical discharge, to no avail.

Regarding the ozone in a hurricane- I suppose in retrospect I jumped to a conclusion- that ozone might not have been pulled down from the ozone layer. I suppose it could just as easily be generated IN the hurricane... if the hurricane was behaving like a big ionic air purifier.

Need more info, and Google isn't pointing me to anything good. :\
Mike H.

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Re: Tsunami electric signal

Unread postby nick c » Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:32 pm

My question is not how the hurricane draws (if that is what it does) the ozone down, but rather why is the ozone up there in the first place? What holds it up?
Is not ozone (O3) denser than oxygen (O2) or nitrogen, the main

components of the atmosphere? Why doesn't it sink to the ground?
Is that a dumb question?

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Re: Tsunami electric signal

Unread postby mharratsc » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:00 pm

Not to me, brother! :)

I finally read down in Wiki (because I couldn't find anything pertinent to what I was looking for elsewhere) and here's what it said:
In the net reaction, three equivalents of water are converted into one equivalent of ozone and three equivalents of hydrogen. Oxygen formation is a competing reaction.

It can also be prepared by passing 10,000-20,000 volts DC through dry O2. This can be done with an apparatus consisting of two concentric glass tubes sealed together at the top, with in and out spigots at the top and bottom of the outer tube. The inner core should have a length of metal foil inserted into it connected to one side of the power source. The other side of the power source should be connected to another piece of foil wrapped around the outer tube. Dry O2 should be run through the tube in one spigot. As the O2 is run through one spigot into the apparatus and 10,000-20,000 volts DC are applied to the foil leads, electricity will discharge between the dry dioxygen in the middle and form O3 and O2 out the other spigot. The reaction can be summarized as follows:[6]

3 O2 — electricity → 2 O3
(From Wikipedia)

This is bizarre, if you ask me. Why would one of the molecules undergo fission, and the atoms fuse to two other molecules?? o.O

Makes no sense to me!

I bet Solrey could explain it! Where are ya, Brother Sol?? :)
Mike H.

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Re: Tsunami electric signal

Unread postby mharratsc » Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:18 pm

Aha, found something:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_was_the_ozone_layer_formed

In the upper atmosphere: Light from the Sun breaks apart oxygen molecules (UV wavelengths of 215nm or shorter). Some of this monatomic oxygen combines with nitrogen molecules, some with oxygen molecules to make ozone, but most with other monatomic oxygen. Some of the nitrogen+oxygen molecules can catch lower energy light (still UV, but more available) and make ozone also. As the density of the atmosphere increases, this happens more and more often, until there is little / no UV-C available to break apart more oxygen molecules.
"Running out of UV-C" happens in the upper atmsophere. This is the bottom of the stratosphere / top of the troposphere, where ozone is at its peak concentration... the 'ozone layer". The atmosphere increases with density as the light comes from higher elevation, and eventually, all the UV-C has been absorbed. So ozone increases with decreasing elevation until it gets to the bottom of the stratosphere (where the ozone layer is located), where its concentration falls off pretty sharply with further decreases in altitude.

Scavengers of ozone are water vapor (decays ozone making hydrogen peroxide, blocks the nitrogen+oxygen path of ozone formation), any compound / process that consumes oxygen, and catalysts (such as some chlorine compounds) that convert ozone back to oxygen. Absorption of UV-C or UV-B by ozone, also breaks apart the ozone molecule (only some of which reforms as ozone later).

So the concentration of ozone at any given point is a balance of ozone production, ozone diffusion from adjacent areas, and ozone decay from just time and contaminants from other sources (both natural and Man-caused).
(from wiki.answers.com)

They do seem to think that most of it revolves around UV light absorption, but yet we see ozone creation in electrical events, and even inside the human body!

Makes me think that more of the process might be electrical than they're willing to let on. :P
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'electric oceans'

Unread postby MrAmsterdam » Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:27 am

here we go again. link has been published in a former forum post, but I felt it deserved a seperate one.

Earth’s magnetic field perturbed by 'electric oceans', claims researcher

http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/39469

In a radical rethink of accepted geophysics, new research in the US links variations in the Earth’s magnetic field with the ebb and flow of the world’s oceans. Given the practical importance of these field variations in navigation and atmospheric modeling, the implications of this new research extend far beyond academia. However, the idea has already faced strong criticism from some researchers in the geophysics community.
---
Scientists have long since known that salt in the ocean can conduct electricity, leading to secondary fields, as the waters chop and change in the presence of the Earth’s magnetic field. In practice, however, it is difficult to gauge the scale of these fields — partly due to the incompleteness of data and the limited precision of computations. Ryskin also suggests that previous measurement of these fields have been somewhat biased by standard theories. “Researchers work backwards — they begin with the assumption that secular variation comes from the core when this is still only a hypothesis.”


And again the electric universe theory seems to point us to a direction...
What do you guys think?
Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. -Nikola Tesla -1934
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Re: 'electric oceans'

Unread postby mharratsc » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:23 am

Heh... "strong criticism", they say! :lol:

Well, as long as they don't attach 'plasma cosmology' or 'Electric Universe' to it, it seems that they can at least get it published! That's a step in the right direction, even if credit for theory doesn't get given to the appropriate personages. :\
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Double layers . . . in water

Unread postby ETSubmariner » Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:43 pm

I just saw this video from a University of Washington professor about water. What he describes in this hour long video is the creation of double layers we know of here so well (charge separation, the whole bit). Another scaled instance of an electric/energetic phenomenon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7jKL2-B0QA
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Re: Double layers . . . in water

Unread postby PersianPaladin » Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:11 am

Fascinating.

Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Double layers . . . in water

Unread postby kiwi » Sat Feb 12, 2011 6:05 pm

definately! :shock: ...

ETSubmariner wrote:I just saw this video from a University of Washington professor about water. What he describes in this hour long video is the creation of double layers we know of here so well (charge separation, the whole bit). Another scaled instance of an electric/energetic phenomenon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7jKL2-B0QA


I have an interesting piece regards the propery of water ETSub ... probably best posted down in the NiAMi section, so as not to drift off from your OP, as hopefully someone will come along and offer a conecting bridge between the shared mechanisms (if there are any) of water and plasma! 8-)
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