Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

[starbiter]

Well, good bye Seamith. Heavy sigh.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&hl= ... 29095&z=10

If you look at the map above you'll see the wind came from the NW. The slip faces are perpendicular to the wind. If you go directly South of Oracle you'll see a valley. That's the result of hydrology. The stream caused a slip face. A river/stream formed there during the process. It was a time of extreme precipitation. Enough to produce the ice sheets over Canada. After the stream the process of accumulation begins anew. It rises to the ridge/slip face that ends in Soldier Camp.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 4&t=p&z=12

If you can see it, this is an area of slip faces. The side to the left of the ridge line is windward. The side to the right of the ridge is leeward. It's a slip face. It's classic dune behavior.


http://www.nps.gov/archive/whsa/Sand%20 ... eology.htm

I've posted this before. You can skip the first half. I've read the second part many times. It explains the shapes your looking at, and it shouldn't. There should be absolutely no relationship between Granite Mountains and dunes. It's crazy. But there it is, if someone other than me can see it. I guess i lost Seasmith, i don't think he saw it. This example seems pretty simple and easy to see. It's clean. It seems the wind was pretty much unidirectional. That's not always the case.

A question of the group. Has anyone read or re-read Worlds in Collision since the thread started. If anyone has, please share the experience. Did you see the Venus episode differently if it was a re-read. If a first timer, do you see what i'm talking about. If the answer is no, say that.

michael

[Kapriel]

Concerning my comment on the necessity of reading Dr. Velikovsky. I'd like to put the question to the core members of the group. Can you be a Catastrophist without reading Worlds in Collision. I find the two incompatible. Without this minimum effort, any hope of communicating this would be futile.

As useful and logical as this seems, it probably isn't likely to happen given the varied personal time-constraints of the participants here. Additionally, the EU theory draws crowds from every discipline- catastrophists being just one of those sub-groups. The reason there is so much interest on this thread is because there is over-lap between disciplines, but that over-lap will not be complete in all areas. This is the nature of the beast.

Therefore a simple review of Velikovsky's event-line, typed up and pasted into this forum, would probably be a great aid to this discussion. It would save you time repeating crucial details. You might include the link in your signature line for people to use whenever they want to re-read it.

Just a thought from a busy but interested observer.

[Kapriel]

As a PS to my previous post;

A theory must stand on its own, regardless of Velikovsky's scenario. It's the same as trying to prove geologic events using the Bible. Because not all people believe in the Bible, the discussion will always break down in the end.

On the other hand, it would strengthen the explanation of these effects if the science could be worked out that explains them. Then it really wouldn't matter if these dunes were made during Venus' flybys of it at some other time. The science itself would establish the fact of the event, either way. I think this discussion should move in that direction.

The rock remembers. Trust the rock.

[seasmith]

Dunes of sand-sized materials have been trapped on the floors of many Martian craters. This is one example, from a crater in Noachis Terra, west of the giant Hellas impact basin. Image Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/University of Arizona

http://www.physorg.com/news182714287.html

[starbiter]

Sorry for not getting back. My laptop caught a cold. All better now.

Kapriel: If Dr. Velikovsky dealt with only the Bible i'd ignore him. It's the incredible agreement from every corner of the world that makes it impossible to ignore.

Seasmith: Thanks very much for the dune stuff. Happy to see you here.

I'll try to supply a brief synopsis of Worlds in Collision as it relates to mountains as dunes a little later, as per Kapriel's request. Sort of a Classic Comics version.

michael

[webolife]

Starbiter wrote:
"There should be absolutely no relationship between Granite Mountains and dunes. It's crazy. But there it is, if someone other than me can see it."

What is it you think you are seeing? I looked at your images and read the White Sands article through twice looking for any supposed relationship. I saw none. I do believe you are imagining slip faces, but even so, without observing the strata or lack thereof in the field, just comparing superficial morphology cannot establish a relationship, let alone causality.

Another geologic example that may interest you is described by Douglas Cox here:
http://vinyl2.sentex.ca/~tcc/GT/OD.html
This large region of drumlins in southern Ontario features deposited mounds along with weathered bedrock features that are both streamlined by catastrophic currents to have the same superficial morphology. If you only look at the shapes of the drumlins, you would think they all originated from the same materials.

[starbiter]

Hello Webo: When you say you read the White Sands article twice, did you mean The Dune Geology article. I'm not familiar with the White Sands article.
Also, the process described in the Dune Geology article assumes desert conditions. My theories involve sand availability during extreme precipitation causing rivers and flooding, interrupting the process.

michael

[webolife]

Yeah, that one, the one with the picture of White Sands at the top.
I agree that it is difficult to talk about dunes apart from the processes that produce their original sediments,
ie. flooding etc., as well as the processes that modify them, water and wind erosion, and chemical weathering, compaction, cementation. I see no connection between these and granitic formations, other than the obvious presence of weathering and erosion.

[junglelord]

The answer lies deeper then any of you have mentioned, at least from the pages I did read.
All forms come from quantum geometry which follows Golden Mean Ratio patterns.
All patterns repeat, as above, so below.

The galaxy is spiral because the Aether is a spiral, because it is a rotating Magnetic-Dielectric Field with a quantum spin of 2. All matter has quantum spin of 1/2. Matter is continually spinning within the Aether,
like a 4-d spirograph. Forms of all kinds can be explained via Pi, PHI, e. The fractal nature of the universe is well observed in hour glass plasma formations from large Z Pinch events. It is well observed in Saturn which has a equatorial toroid. Aether models depict a dual charge unit of distributed charge of a toroid around a sphere.
It has been stated in the "ribbon" thread which NASA discovered and was predicted by the EU, the Plasma virtual cathode double layer sphere, that it is surrounded by a toroidal ring!
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... 9&start=60

It is well observed that all planets and stars are spheres. The Platonic Solids cannot be ignored. The Spiral Galaxy and Tesla's flat Spiral Inductors....how elegant. Structure controls function.

How is it then that the forms would not repeat at various scales based on these fundamental harmonics?
I believe that would answer the phenomenon. At least its one possible conclusion, because in the end we are dealing with fundamental harmonics of some type derived from some resonate process to create such identical structures and repeating forms. In the end all is charge and resonance with holographic phase conjugation results.

[starbiter]

Hello Jungle Lord: I've been looking forward to hearing from you. I've been interested in knowing your thoughts on duning and mountains. I'm afraid i still don't know. As i mentioned about two years ago on this forum, i droll a little. Your response is so far over my head it's hard to describe. Do you think it would be possible for wind blown sand during and after the plague of darkness to form dunes the size of mountains? If no i can dig it. If yes do you think it possible for something like the aurora to convert these piles of sand to rock.
Be well and prosper, michael

Hello Webo: Because my computer died and then rose again i no longer have Photoshop or the means to reduce the size of my photographs. When i straighten this out i'll reply to you.
starbiter michael

[starbiter]

Hello Webo:

Hello Webo:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 7&t=p&z=13

Lets use this map. I see the wind coming from the upper left. The area is submerged. The area in the center is dry. The sand begins to accumulate as per the dune geology web site. The side to the left of the ridge is The windward side. It grows in a less steep manner. As the sand reaches the ridge it forms a steep slip face. It would just keep growing, but a stream forms in front of it's growth. It can't grow anymore. The stream is the limit. But the sand blows accross the stream, and the process starts over. It grows until a new stream forms in front of it's growth.

This image may help. I'm standing were the 77 is in the upper left corner. I'm looking a little south of East at the big mountains.
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UT ... 8&t=p&z=14

Notice the layering below the top ridge. It slopes from upper left to lower right. Just like Frenchmen Mountain. Just like it should if the wind was from the NW. And this is igneous rock, i believe. I'll check with BLM.

[webolife]

As you go north and east from Beverly where the Frenchman hills are, past Soap Lake and the Dry Falls area, there is a great deal more evidence of the sloping of the basalt beds [downward from W to E]... but duning has nothing to do with this sloping stratification. It is likely that the basalt was laid flat then later uplifted along with the Cascades to the West; when you look closer at the columnar basalt, eg. at Dry Falls or out toward Deep Lake at Sun Lakes State Park, you see that the lava flowed in many areas over not-so-flat terrain. The other possibility is that the lava poured over a sloped base and hardened like that... I don't prefer that explanation, as it is clear that the basalt was very runny to have covered the 100,000 sq miles or so that it does, with various beds being identifiable for 50 or more miles in some cases [eg. the Rosa formation], so it should have been self leveling when it poured. Still not talking about duning here.

[Kapriel]

Junglelord-

Not sure about everything you were talking about back there, but it was beautifully said

[seasmith]

GaryN » Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:57 pm

I was reading about Bayan Obo in inner Mongolia, and how China has been cutting back on its supply of rare ores to the world, ones that are needed for the production of many eco-tech devices. I thought I would have a look around on Google Earth. As I suspected, many electrical looking features.


http://www3.telus.net/myworld/eneverse/bayanobo.jpg

I'd like to hear, from anyone interested, what they think of the features around there ...

Mongolia in motion



Left-lateral offset along the Bogd fault produced during the 1957 earthquake near Ulaan Bulag, Mongolia.

Satellite image showing Gurvan Bulag thrust fault disrupting alluvial fans south of Ih Bogd, Mongolia

This rupture is remarkably complicated, involving strike-slip and thrust faulting on several distinct structures within a zone about 250 km long and 40 km wide (Kurushin et al., in press) (Figure 3).

The complicated rupture of the Gobi-Altay earthquake has been cited as a possible analog for a future earthquake in southern California involving simultaneous rupture of the San Andreas, Sierra Madre - Cucamonga, and other nearby fault zones (Bayarsayhan et al., 1996; Kurushin et al., in press). It also serves as a possible analog for future ruptures in other intracontinental regions such as the New Madrid Seismic Zone of the midwestern U.S. Important questions regarding the Gobi-Altay rupture include the timing of pre-historic earthquakes, whether the rupture complexity seen in 1957 is typical of past earthquakes generated by this segment of the Bogd fault, and whether the temporal cluster of great earthquakes in the larger Mongolia area this century is typical of seismic behavior in this region.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/research/geology/mongolia97/

[starbiter]

Hello Seasmith:

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&hl= ... 4&t=h&z=12

I see things more clearly with Google maps.
From the descriptions of witnesses i'm working with tectonic actions were at their peak during the WiC period. According to the records, after the events of WiC, earthquakes were much more common than today.
Things have been calming down. The planet seems to be settling. Occasionally a comet breaks up and causes something like the New Madrid quake along the Mississippi.
The alluvial fan is a good chance to talk about what happens when the duning process i refer to is receiving more water and sand than can be flushed away by the water system surrounding it. As i mentioned, the river/drainage system is carrying away the sand that falls into it, preventing accumulation. If the sand is carried to moving water it is then homogenized and carried away. If the current is fast, the middle of the valley is lower than the edges next to the mountain. If the current is slow the valley can be quite flat. If the sand and water are super saturated the result seems to be an alluvial fan. This is pretty much the mainstream story also. The quantity of sand and water does seem easier to explain with my model, IMO. An earthquake could easily fracture a sand formation that has been converted to rock by the river of fire. So instead of a mountain building event, it might be an adjustment.

Pictured below is the an alluvial fan in Death Valley.




Webo: i'm having trouble finding the area you mentioned with basalt.

michael