Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby moses » Thu Jan 16, 2014 3:26 pm

The Mt St Helens images remind me of what i see all over the western US. As if there was a flood full of sediment. The water level seems to have changed rapidly on a number of occasions in short order. At the same time there appears to have been dust, gravel, rocks and boulders falling from the sky. Some of the time the material was wet due to hurricane plus conditions. Other times the material seems to have been electrically molten by what appeared to be a river of fire.
michael

Yes, yes, yes - but when.
This is exactly what I have been saying for years, but what you ascribe to a time of planetary orbital chaos, I ascribe to some ancient time with the Earth in another planetary configuration. It frustrates me no end that you will not look at what you see as belonging to at least two very different time periods.
Cheers,
Mo
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:44 pm

The links in my last post have been fixed, except the last one. The map link below is for the alleged volcano W of Los Alamos.

http://goo.gl/maps/RYrZN

I see this as a vortex remnant. The air was full of dust. The interior lumps remind a friend of what a Birkeland current might do.

The rock formations/mountains on the sediment map below remind me of a low pressure weather system, both in shape and scale. Both would be electrical. The current density of the mountain making event would be orders of magnitude greater, while the air was choked with comet dust. Also volcanic dust. It would appear the process produced volcanoes, sometimes in arcs. Telluric currents i suppose.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _types.jpg

michael
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:27 pm

moses wrote:The Mt St Helens images remind me of what i see all over the western US. As if there was a flood full of sediment. The water level seems to have changed rapidly on a number of occasions in short order. At the same time there appears to have been dust, gravel, rocks and boulders falling from the sky. Some of the time the material was wet due to hurricane plus conditions. Other times the material seems to have been electrically molten by what appeared to be a river of fire.
michael

Yes, yes, yes - but when.
This is exactly what I have been saying for years, but what you ascribe to a time of planetary orbital chaos, I ascribe to some ancient time with the Earth in another planetary configuration. It frustrates me no end that you will not look at what you see as belonging to at least two very different time periods.
Cheers,
Mo



Hi Moses,

From the unfossiliferous layers around Sedona to the Kaibab Limestone topping the Grand Canyon there appears to be a connection.

http://www.arizonaruins.com/sedona/sedona_geology.html

http://geoscience.unlv.edu/pub/rowland/ ... ology.html

But the best place to see this is Sleeping Woman/Frenchman Mountain. It appears this was one event. The direction of the wind was consistent. It seems obvious when walking the area.

http://geoscience.unlv.edu/pub/rowland/ ... ology.html

If written about this area earlier.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2780&start=1050#p91134

It appears these areas were at some point flooded while the dust was still available. To the North we have Navajo Sandstone with Dino foot prints.

http://www.climb-utah.com/Moab/moabdino.htm


To the North of there the Navajo is 6,000 feet deep and full of millions of barrels of oil.

http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/docum ... 70chidsey/

There might have been multiple events. But what i see at the surface seems of be part of the big event that goes from the Alutiens to the Caribbean.

Whether one or multiple events, the events at the surface seem recent. And they match the descriptions from legend quite nicely. I believe people saw the oil fall from the sky. I believe this is the oil in the Navajo Sandstone. And the 4 trillions of oil in the Green River formation.

It's hard to date the lower layers. He very difficult to know the surface of Earth prior to the Venus encounter. If there was a Venus encounter.

michael
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby moses » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:50 pm

Of course the last event is going to dominate surface features. And I feel that you are doing wonderful work detailing how it all came about. Nor am I saying that the previous events were all that different in effects to the last event. I mean why would they be much different. It is just that the evidence is overwhelming that the last event and the previous events were separated by considerable time.

Like, I am not convinced that oil fell from the sky, but why would it not fall from the sky in previous events. I just don't see you thinking really hard about whether what you see in the field was produced by a previous event. I reckon you see it forming just the same as heaps of other places so you attribute it to the same event. Once you try really hard to attribute what you see to the correct time period, it can only increase your understanding considerably.
Cheers,
Mo
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:43 am

moses wrote:Of course the last event is going to dominate surface features. And I feel that you are doing wonderful work detailing how it all came about. Nor am I saying that the previous events were all that different in effects to the last event. I mean why would they be much different. It is just that the evidence is overwhelming that the last event and the previous events were separated by considerable time.

Like, I am not convinced that oil fell from the sky, but why would it not fall from the sky in previous events. I just don't see you thinking really hard about whether what you see in the field was produced by a previous event. I reckon you see it forming just the same as heaps of other places so you attribute it to the same event. Once you try really hard to attribute what you see to the correct time period, it can only increase your understanding considerably.
Cheers,
Mo



Hi Mo,

This conversation is fun. You're making me think.

The Navajo Sandstone seems to be the key. It's the top layer in so many places. It got lots of dolomite which is best explained as comet dust.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navajo_Sandstone

And this is the layer in the Covenant Formation with millions of barrels of oil. It's covered with 6,000 feet of sediment. This is the reason i think the eyewitness accounts referring to oil falling from above refer to the Covenant Formation. I can't believe i'm pontificating about this. Who am i to propose something like this?

michael
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby moses » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:35 pm

So lets consider whether the Navajo Sandstone was deposited in your time period or a previous time period. Now I don't want this to be a debate but rather a plea for you to consider, with all your heart, all the possibilities, rather than defending your position.

There are dinosaur fossils in the Navajo Sandstone(NS). Now I put it to you that if the NS was formed as you say then the dinosaurs would have come from Venus. However if the NS was formed in exactly the same manner that you are proposing, but in some previous time when the Earth was in a different planetary configuration, then the dinosaurs would have come from some unknown planet which interacted with Earth in the manner that you are proposing.

I once proposed that the unknown planet was Mars, but now I don't think so. But see how much better your theory is just by having your mechanism in an earlier time period. Really it is such a small change to your theory.
Cheers,
Mo
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:07 pm

moses wrote:So lets consider whether the Navajo Sandstone was deposited in your time period or a previous time period. Now I don't want this to be a debate but rather a plea for you to consider, with all your heart, all the possibilities, rather than defending your position.

There are dinosaur fossils in the Navajo Sandstone(NS). Now I put it to you that if the NS was formed as you say then the dinosaurs would have come from Venus. However if the NS was formed in exactly the same manner that you are proposing, but in some previous time when the Earth was in a different planetary configuration, then the dinosaurs would have come from some unknown planet which interacted with Earth in the manner that you are proposing.

I once proposed that the unknown planet was Mars, but now I don't think so. But see how much better your theory is just by having your mechanism in an earlier time period. Really it is such a small change to your theory.
Cheers,
Mo



Hi Moses,

I see the Navajo Sandstone as the end of the process in that area. It might have been flooded and sloshed over while other areas grew. The higher mountains. The slosh, if it existed, was washed away in many places leaving clean rock.

The Navajo Sandstone consists of large quantities of dolomite and limestone. If an Allosaurus walked through fresh carbonate rich mud it might explain the tracks. Fast drying concrete.

http://www.climb-utah.com/Moab/moabdino.htm


In my model the dinos were from Earth. But not from 66,000,000 years ago.

https://www.google.com/#q=dino-petroglyphe

michael
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby moses » Sun Jan 19, 2014 2:13 am

In my model the dinos were from Earth. But not from 66,000,000 years ago.
michael

Which can only mean that you have dinos living at the same time as people, and the same time as your planetary interaction. How very much easier is it to have dinos way back when there was a previous interaction.

Cheers, Mo
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:53 am

moses wrote:In my model the dinos were from Earth. But not from 66,000,000 years ago.
michael

Which can only mean that you have dinos living at the same time as people, and the same time as your planetary interaction. How very much easier is it to have dinos way back when there was a previous interaction.

Cheers, Mo



Hola Moses,

In Worlds in Collision people describe the events that produced the formations under discussion. How far back would You like to date the people? There are bones of modern people, weapons, toys, and mortars buried under basalt formations in CA. This implies a recent time frame to me. Why do You insist on making dinos so ancient? Didn't You notice the petroglyphs i sent earlier with dinos?

michael
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby nick c » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:38 am

The chronology of the geological column is based on uniformitarian assumptions. Once the validity of rates of sedimentary deposition and radiometric dating are challenged the entire chronological framework collapses. Replacing it is another story.
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby moses » Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:35 pm

In Worlds in Collision people describe the events that produced the formations under discussion. How far back would You like to date the people? There are bones of modern people, weapons, toys, and mortars buried under basalt formations in CA. This implies a recent time frame to me. Why do You insist on making dinos so ancient? Didn't You notice the petroglyphs i sent earlier with dinos?
michael

In Worlds in Collision people describe the events that could have produced the formations under discussion. Well do I think that those petroglyphs are of dinos - no. However there could have been ancient humanoid creatures that could have done dino petroglyphs. Do I think that there were modern people way back when the Navajo Sandstones were formed - no. I agree that some formations can be attributed to the last planetary interaction. Having dinos with modern man is unacceptable.

Once the validity of rates of sedimentary deposition and radiometric dating are challenged the entire chronological framework collapses.
nick

Not in the sense that the lower layers are older, and that the fossils are different. Which means that there were a few events, at least, of deposition. When it comes to chronology we have to think in very basic terms, not discard everything.
Cheers,
Mo
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Sun Jan 19, 2014 4:56 pm

moses wrote:In Worlds in Collision people describe the events that produced the formations under discussion. How far back would You like to date the people? There are bones of modern people, weapons, toys, and mortars buried under basalt formations in CA. This implies a recent time frame to me. Why do You insist on making dinos so ancient? Didn't You notice the petroglyphs i sent earlier with dinos?
michael

In Worlds in Collision people describe the events that could have produced the formations under discussion. Well do I think that those petroglyphs are of dinos - no. However there could have been ancient humanoid creatures that could have done dino petroglyphs. Do I think that there were modern people way back when the Navajo Sandstones were formed - no. I agree that some formations can be attributed to the last planetary interaction. Having dinos with modern man is unacceptable.

Once the validity of rates of sedimentary deposition and radiometric dating are challenged the entire chronological framework collapses.
nick

Not in the sense that the lower layers are older, and that the fossils are different. Which means that there were a few events, at least, of deposition. When it comes to chronology we have to think in very basic terms, not discard everything.
Cheers,
Mo



Moses, i agree completely that the lower layers are older. It just seems problematic to know how much older. I'll just concentrate on the most recent ones for now.

A world wide plague of darkness as described in legend would leave a mark on the surface, IMHO.

michael
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Welded Tuff Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:06 pm

Just SW of Pahrump NV are two interesting mountains.

http://goo.gl/maps/xPPB0

Looking NE from the center of the map linked below the leeward side of the formation is quite dendritic.

http://goo.gl/maps/UWwlH

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... pKUDA/edit

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... RsX2s/edit


Looking SE from the center of the map below the layers of the formation are quite clear.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... pyRTg/edit

http://goo.gl/maps/F18rj

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... sxMzA/edit

The mountain S of the formation above is similar concerning the layers, but the material is quite different. In the map below the camera looks ENE.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=nl

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... VpMDQ/edit


I assume these formations are considered folded by standard geology. I see blowing dust from the ENE.

Not far from these locations there is a similar looking layer pattern. What's interesting are the layers trending in different directions.

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=nl

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=U ... 21,78.76,0

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... hTN1k/edit

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... tNZkU/edit This is the left side.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... lLT28/edit This is the right side.

I can imagine a vortex in the middle bringing in dust to the center. It's hard to imagine folding creating this pattern.

michael
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Re: Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

Unread postby starbiter » Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:47 pm

After the 2012 NPA conference in Albuquerque, Andreas Otte, Mel Acheson and i visited Valles Caldera W of Los Alamos, NM. I was under the impression the formation wasn't a volcano as presumed by everyone. I thought the formation was the result of an electrical vortex while the air was choked with dust.

When Mel noticed the shapes in the interior of the caldera he mentioned it looked like the remnant of a Birkeland current. I asked him to explain what he was seeing. His answer is below.


http://goo.gl/maps/GqvNz The location under discussion.

http://goo.gl/maps/iy04s The slosh from the N. Please zoom out for perspective. This will discussed further.


Immediately west of Los Alamos, NM is a crater about 7 miles in radius. Along an inner arc about halfway from center to rim, from northeast to northwest, are six almost evenly spaced peaks. The peaks and the north rim range from 9500 to 10300 feet in elevation. Also, to the south on the same arc is another peak rising to about 9700 feet. The south rim varies from about 8500 to 9000 feet.

A relatively flat area at about 8500 feet elevation occupies much of the southeast quadrant; a raised area culminating in Redondo Peak at 11300 feet occupies the southwest quadrant. (That peak is about a mile closer to the center than the arc of peaks on the north side.)

Jaramilla Creek and East Fork Jemez River drain from the north, through the flat on the southeast, and across the south portions of the crater; Redondo Creek drains the west portion; both exit the crater at the southwest point at about 8000 feet.

West of the crater and surrounding mountains is an extensive relatively flat region at about 7000 feet elevation. It ends in 1000-foot cliffs along the south dropping to I-40. East and south of the crater are broad valleys at 5500 to 6000 feet, drained respectively by the Rio Grande and Jemez rivers.

The morphology of the crater is analogous to that of a cross-section of a tornado: Inside the primary vortex, equally spaced subvortices often revolve around the axis. They tend to form and to strengthen on approaching the leading edge and to weaken as they swing toward the back. If a tornado is considered to be an electrical discharge vortex, and if a crater is considered to be a scar produced by a scaled-up discharge vortex from space, then the Los Alamos crater could be produced by the sudden quenching of such a discharge, with debris in the subvortices deposited and lithified in place.

Alternatively, the interior peaks of the crater could be analogous to the crown-like spherules formed in some laboratory-discharge craters. [“Laboratory Modeling of Meteorite Impact Craters by Z-pinch Plasma,” C. J. Ransom, The Open Astronomy Journal, 2011, 4, (Suppl 2-M4), pp. 185-190.] The Los Alamos crater could be considered a double-ring crater, but unlike the laboratory craters, which are excavated from the original surface, the Los Alamos crater would likely have been deposited on the surface, considering that its caldera (the flat area at 8500-feet elevation) is 2500 feet or more above what could be considered the original surface (the valleys to the east at 6000-feet elevation). If one considers that the discharge may have occurred in a dusty plasma atmosphere during a global-catastrophic episode, pinch forces could have drawn in dust and deposited and lithified it in essentially the form we see today. Cores to examine the interior strata, if any, could help to clarify this question.

In this interpretation, the crater complex was deposited atop a previous “slosh” of sediment which left the 5500- to 6000-foot-high plain. A subsequent 1000- to 1500-foot slosh to the west, moving north-to-south, stopped or was washed away along the southern boundary.
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Re: Are Mountains made by a Duning Process? Not exclusively

Unread postby dahlenaz » Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:27 am

larryduane100 wrote:Starbiter's model keeps on tickin'. Perhaps all mountains on all planet are caused by wind accumulation of heated dust, dirt, gravel, etc. This wind being electric in one form or another. And now the variable equator model explaining water depth really helps me see the big picture.
The continental sizes of excavation on Mars show we could have experienced some carving on our planet. The 'S' shape of North America from Alaska to the Carribean and the 'S' shape of Valles Marineris is noteworthy.
Larry


The following image advances the variable equator idea far ahead of any air-driven notions.
This looks like lateral-flow crossbedding and would be expected where large volumes of water
accumulated and then departed with great depth of the outflow. A variety of displaced materials
could have either traveled from the point of storage of been excavated along the way. In either
case, separation can occur along the side of the drainage basin. This has been discussed elsewhere
related to continental shelf accumulation but it happens along channels as well.
But there are other likely explanations..

And in light of large accumulations of water,,, Wave formed ridges are to be expected..

There are many ways to form mountains,, And realising that the earth's crust is 5 times thinner than
the shell of an egg,, and considering that the crust had to form by some simple process,, and considering
that stresses on the initial crust almost certainly gave into gravitational forces, and cascading failure,,
it would seem less than likely that mountain formation could be limited to atmosphericly driven processes.

Original link:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... edit?pli=1

Image

See the link below for some of the hydro-dynamic possibilities.

Crustal failure can be demonstrated easily with the smack of your knuckle on
a boiled egg clenched tightly in your hand. While you do this consider that there
is a fluid layer between the shell and the semi-solid interior..

The Hydroplate theory, when mixed with Saturnian gravitationaly changes and
the formative environment proposed by plasma pinch theory,, can answer a unique
phase which can account for some very large features of this planet. d...z

http://para-az.com/fluid-dendritics

...
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