Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

[starbiter]

Nice image michael.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... VEOE0/edit

Those quartz veins are 3d internal 'lightning' in my description. The event that tore out the canyon was electrical, on a huge scale. Quartz is supposedly formed the same way as other veins:

In geology, a vein is a distinct sheetlike body of crystallized minerals within a rock. Veins form when mineral constituents carried by an aqueous solution within the rock mass are deposited through precipitation. The hydraulic flow involved is usually due to hydrothermal circulation.

Hydrothermal circulation, aqueous solutions. Don't buy it, many of the veins are dead-ends, no circulation possible. Gold was supposedly the same process, but there are alternative explanations:

Earthquakes make gold veins in an instant.
Pressure changes cause precious metal to deposit each time the crust moves.
http://www.nature.com/news/earthquakes- ... nt-1.12615
If Earthquakes are producing high frequency piezo-electric induced currents, then perhaps there is yet another explanation?

I posted the image below a while back.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... JZMjg/edit

Don't know the type of mineral in the rock or vein, but it appears electrical to me. It reminds me of the Black Canyon.

Gary, are You open to Earth's atmosphere being choked with dust during an encounter with an Earth sized comet? Basically the Worlds in Collision scenario.

I see the Black Canyon being prevented from growing by the water in the river carrying away dust. The formation grew around the river.

It's possible the formation surrounding the river is slosh, not blowing dust. As the waters were drawn back to the equator as the Earth began to rotate in the opposite direction the river might have cut through freshly deposited soft sediment. The horizontal upper surface of the formation doesn't seem to be the result of the welded tuff process. I've gone back and forth on the process for the Black Canyon creation. Options are good. Maybe it was ripped out by a giant thunderbolt.

We do agree on the process of separating the veins in the formation being electrical.

michael

[starbiter]

Hi Gary,

I'd be very happy if the Grand Canyon and Black Canyon of the Gunnison were thunderbolt scars. But that doesn't seem to be the case based on my field studies, and Google Maps.

If a thunderbolt was strong enough to rip out either canyon it wouldn't be interrupted by a high point in the landscape. But the canyons associated with these formations get smaller as they move higher. And then they stop at the high point. On the other side of the high point a new canyon starts in the other direction. Only a retreating ocean would do that. Not seasonal rain and snow.

http://goo.gl/maps/WxQZV



There is a tunnel that goes from the crystal reservoir towards Montrose to the West. The tunnel takes water from the bottom of the reservoir and transports it to the farms around Montrose.

http://goo.gl/maps/qUZRY

The chart linked below shows the material that was excavated. The metamorphic material seems to be associated with the canyon.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... R5MDA/edit

http://www.nps.gov/nr/travel/Reclamatio ... unnel.html


The Grand Canyon is similar. The area North of the canyon drains to the South, creating large canyons. The area South of the canyon also drains to the South. The canyons are much smaller on the South rim. A thunderbolt wouldn't care about drainage.

http://goo.gl/maps/EHESU

Please find a canyon that blasts through a high point instead of stopping at the high point. That would imply an electrical excavation.

I think this issue puts EU in a negative light with non EU skeptics.

Another issue is the gentle flow of water towards the sea. The rivers can be rafted. Steamboats traveled North of Las Vegas prior to the dams. It's as if the rivers were always there flowing gently. A thunderbolt might not leave such a smooth flow. It would probably create huge waterfalls and lakes. The mountains seem to have formed around the drainages. The moving water preventing growth from airborne dust.

That's my take on it.

michael

[starbiter]

Many craters in the solar system might have an explanation that hasn't been considered. EU considers massive electric discharges to be responsible. The interplanetary thunderbolts are supposed to lift the crater rims up from the surface of the moons and planets. This might be the case. On the other hand, if Venus was a wondering comet with a dusty tail when these formations were created, the dust might be the key. Venus could supply the thunderbolt and the material to create the rim at the same time. The formation in the linked article below looks like a round mountain chain.

http://aboriginalastronomy.blogspot.com ... gs_28.html

The native people claim that the morning and evening star was responsible. Probably just a coincidence.

Many of the craters in the link below seem to be round mountains. Material seems to be pulled in from the surface or air. When the material [ions] gets to the edge of the thunderbolt/vortex they are pulled up leaving a depression in the middle. The area surrounding the rim is also coated, but the rim gets the most fresh material.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sit ... TFmfTa4vLQ

Maybe the Earth, Moon, Mars, Mercury and other celestial bodies had an encounter with Venus as a comet, or some other comet. The resulting thunderbolts would concentrate comet dust into craters during electrical interactions.

Meteor crater in AZ is surrounded by layers of rock for a great distance. The same layers then rise to create the rim.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sit ... GKzzJNgXaQ

It's stated in legend that there was so much dust during the first three days of the worldwide Plagues of Egypt that nothing was discernible. If there were electromagnetic events [huge thunderbolts] the material might then be concentrated and heated, creating round mountains. A dry surface is the key. The dust would be washed away if the area was submerged. Or partly submerged.

michael steinbacher

[GaryN]

I posted the image below a while back.

Very nice, exemplifies electrical activity, IMO.

Gary, are You open to Earth's atmosphere being choked with dust during an encounter with an Earth sized comet? Basically the Worlds in Collision scenario.

I'm open to the idea, yes, but I can not agree with the idea of the Earth reversing rotation, unless the Earth is a very light, thin shelled sphere, just too much energy stored by a rotating mass of the calculated values. The Earth would be torn apart under such deceleration. I do think, though I haven't set up a computer model yet, that by some gyroscopic action perhaps, the earth could keep its rotation while tilting over to almost 90 degrees, and that from a point on earths surface, the Sun would NOT remain stationary in the skies, but would describe a circle or oval path overhead, but never 'set'. On flipping 180 degrees, would the Sun then appear to be moving the other way?

I'd be very happy if the Grand Canyon and Black Canyon of the Gunnison were thunderbolt scars. But that doesn't seem to be the case based on my field studies, and Google Maps.

Based on my field studies, there is a recurrent theme to the rivers and creeks around here, and it is based on a pre-existing land form, with the hills and mountains already in place, and already cooled and crystalised. A high vertical electric field gradient causes a surface current to flow along, from the ocean front, to the hill top, and when it reaches the lower levels of the hills, will cut a canyon to a certain depth, and then jump up to what is likely another rock strata, leaving a waterfall or very steep but very short cut, a spillway I have called them. Then the cut runs along a pretty level section for a while, and then there is another waterfall/spillway, and then another flat stretch. This repeats for a good way up, and only at the last level is there a chimney-like scar that fades out on approach to the summit. Sometimes there will be what I would consider an anode area at the peak, and there can be amorphous silica patches, or green or yellow-green 'glass'. That is where, IMO, the energy has been most concentrated, as it where the current flow to the atmosphere was concentrated.
Where the land is flat on both sides of a mountain range, as with the New River cutting through the Appalatians, the surface current will cut all the way down to the base level on either side, as the current flow is like an electro-magnetic 'cheese wire', and I can see that too in how the creek beds around here seem to be following a shortest path between source (sea level) and drain (hill top), sometimes barely skimming the surface, and sometimes cutting a deep v through many meters of solid rock. It is within these deep v sections that the most, and thickest of the quartz veins are seen, and in places it is easy to see that they originate in the deepest part of the creek bed and run up the sides of the v, similar, but at much smaller scale than those in your earlier image.
I'm a little short on time just now michael, will address your other points ASAP, and hope we can find some common ground. Good stuff!.

[moses]

Consider that the Grand Canyon was formed by a few events of laminated deposition. (If it was formed electrically, then we would likely see big canyons cut through the very ancient rocks, somewhere on Earth.) Now the new deposits would be wet and would tend to flow at 'weak' points. Thus I feel that the Colarado River was such a weak spot. The sediment flushed away would not be deposited in the usual manner in the Pacific due to the immensity of the circumstances.

When the next lot of sediments was applied then the Colarado was definitely a weak spot and so any sediment laid in the river was washed away. Thus the Grand Canyon formed. This ties in with what we just considered happened to the Venezuelan formations, in that much of the sediment was washed away. But what of the thunderbolts, or close relatives to the thunderbolts, that were evident in the Venezuelan formations.

It is so unlikely that the huge canyon on Mars was formed by water, and we have evidence of thunderbolts during the depositions, that conclusions must wait, still. But I do feel that the huge canyon on Mars was formed at a different time, and after, the laminated deposition of the geological column on Earth. Even so if a planet to planet thunderbolt produced that huge canyon on Mars, one would expect some pretty clear effects of the thunderbolt on the other planet (Earth).

PS: Gary's description of the Earth tilting over gyroscopically is almost identical to my view, and so no flipping Earth, ( and no flipping magnetic field either !)
Cheers,
Mo

[starbiter]

I posted the image below a while back.

Very nice, exemplifies electrical activity, IMO.

Gary, are You open to Earth's atmosphere being choked with dust during an encounter with an Earth sized comet? Basically the Worlds in Collision scenario.

I'm open to the idea, yes, but I can not agree with the idea of the Earth reversing rotation, unless the Earth is a very light, thin shelled sphere, just too much energy stored by a rotating mass of the calculated values. The Earth would be torn apart under such deceleration. I do think, though I haven't set up a computer model yet, that by some gyroscopic action perhaps, the earth could keep its rotation while tilting over to almost 90 degrees, and that from a point on earths surface, the Sun would NOT remain stationary in the skies, but would describe a circle or oval path overhead, but never 'set'. On flipping 180 degrees, would the Sun then appear to be moving the other way?

I'd be very happy if the Grand Canyon and Black Canyon of the Gunnison were thunderbolt scars. But that doesn't seem to be the case based on my field studies, and Google Maps.

Based on my field studies, there is a recurrent theme to the rivers and creeks around here, and it is based on a pre-existing land form, with the hills and mountains already in place, and already cooled and crystalised. A high vertical electric field gradient causes a surface current to flow along, from the ocean front, to the hill top, and when it reaches the lower levels of the hills, will cut a canyon to a certain depth, and then jump up to what is likely another rock strata, leaving a waterfall or very steep but very short cut, a spillway I have called them. Then the cut runs along a pretty level section for a while, and then there is another waterfall/spillway, and then another flat stretch. This repeats for a good way up, and only at the last level is there a chimney-like scar that fades out on approach to the summit. Sometimes there will be what I would consider an anode area at the peak, and there can be amorphous silica patches, or green or yellow-green 'glass'. That is where, IMO, the energy has been most concentrated, as it where the current flow to the atmosphere was concentrated.
Where the land is flat on both sides of a mountain range, as with the New River cutting through the Appalatians, the surface current will cut all the way down to the base level on either side, as the current flow is like an electro-magnetic 'cheese wire', and I can see that too in how the creek beds around here seem to be following a shortest path between source (sea level) and drain (hill top), sometimes barely skimming the surface, and sometimes cutting a deep v through many meters of solid rock. It is within these deep v sections that the most, and thickest of the quartz veins are seen, and in places it is easy to see that they originate in the deepest part of the creek bed and run up the sides of the v, similar, but at much smaller scale than those in your earlier image.
I'm a little short on time just now michael, will address your other points ASAP, and hope we can find some common ground. Good stuff!.

The reversal of rotation is kind of a big deal Gary. Much of my work is based on it. Eyewitness accounts refer to rivers reversing their flow. I see sloshed sediment at 9,000 plus feet in the mountains. Eyewitness accounts from around the world claim the Sun rises where it set previously.

Geologists claim the polarity of Earth has changed repeatedly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal

If the Earth is being rotated like a homopolar motor, and the polarity reverses, the rotation would be braked. This might require a few days, or more. Then there would be an acceleration in the opposite direction. The aurora is the visual marker of the process.

Whatever stuck up above the waters released from the equatorial bulge was coated by dust and conglomerate. This seems fairly straightforward.

Dr Velikovsky proposed this. Wal Thornhill, Dr Scott, Ralph Juergens, Dr CJ Ransom, Mel Acheson and others didn't run away.

michael

[starbiter]

The link below is an interview with Dr Velikovsky.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW-QQSWgXi4

It's really worth the time required for viewing.

[starbiter]

Concerning thunderbolts excavating canyons, there are wonderful examples of this. Not on Earth but on Mars. Mars seems to have taken it on the chin. So many craters and gouges. And the gouges/canyons go up and over ridges and hills. I'm still looking for a Google Maps example of that from Earth.

Below are examples of clear electrical removal, IMHO.

http://www.google.com/mars/#lat=39.9501 ... 472&zoom=6

These go through formations.

http://www.google.com/mars/#lat=43.5517 ... 654&zoom=7

The map below appears to be fluvial.

http://goo.gl/maps/CT0AL

Earth has liquid water. Earth seems to have suffered much less damage than Mars. Earth shows signs of major damage, but not to the degree of Mars. Maybe our atmosphere and magnetic field spared us to a survivable degree. Earth is also larger than Mars. I seem to recall Dr Velikovsky mentioning that as a mitigating factor on the side of Earth.

michael

[GaryN]

If the Earth is being rotated like a homopolar motor, and the polarity reverses, the rotation would be braked.

But where would the astounding level of EM forces come from to brake the Earth in a few days? And then to accelerate it again? Just the mass of everything above sea level, travelling at 1000 mph, no, I can't even begin to imagine such forces. And such forces would need to be applied evenly all through the Earth, as an unbalanced force would send the Earth into such strange motion that again, I think it would be 'rent asunder'.
I'll watch the Velikovsky vids sometime today Michael, but I think you know that my present position is that they DID see a comet Venus, but that Venus never moved, only appeared much bigger and closer because of the state of its ionosphere, and perhaps Earths, during some Solar flare-up.

Geologists claim the polarity of Earth has changed repeatedly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal

Pure fantasy. I'm not saying there are no changes in magnetic field, but for them to claim they know the exact dates is baloney, they could have all been formed by electro-magnetic processes in very short order during huge, powerful, probably Solar originated 'storms'.

And in todays news:

Study of Idaho canyons suggests they were the result of massive flooding not erosion

(Phys.org) —A team of researchers is proposing that Idaho's Malad Gorge and two of its three unique heads were created by a massive flood 46,000 years ago. In their paper published in Proceeding of the National Academy of Sciences, the team members from California Institute of Technology describe a field study they undertook of the area and how their findings suggest the gorge was created by a flood, not erosion as has been previously thought.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-12-idaho-cany ... n.html#jCp

And from a link at the bottom of that page:

Geologist investigates canyon carved in just three days in Texas flood

In the summer of 2002, a week of heavy rains in Central Texas caused Canyon Lake -- the reservoir of the Canyon Dam -- to flood over its spillway and down the Guadalupe River Valley in a planned diversion to save the dam from catastrophic failure. The flood, which continued for six weeks, stripped the valley of mesquite, oak trees, and soil; destroyed a bridge; and plucked meter-wide boulders from the ground. And, in a remarkable demonstration of the power of raging waters, the flood excavated a 2.2-kilometer-long, 7-meter-deep canyon in the bedrock.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news196255219.html#jCp

So the river bed was loose, broken limestone blocks, I don't have a problem with that. Through solid, unbroken basalt or granite, those volumes and durations would, IMO, have done nothing.

[starbiter]

If the Earth is being rotated like a homopolar motor, and the polarity reverses, the rotation would be braked.

But where would the astounding level of EM forces come from to brake the Earth in a few days? And then to accelerate it again? Just the mass of everything above sea level, travelling at 1000 mph, no, I can't even begin to imagine such forces. And such forces would need to be applied evenly all through the Earth, as an unbalanced force would send the Earth into such strange motion that again, I think it would be 'rent asunder'.
I'll watch the Velikovsky vids sometime today Michael, but I think you know that my present position is that they DID see a comet Venus, but that Venus never moved, only appeared much bigger and closer because of the state of its ionosphere, and perhaps Earths, during some Solar flare-up.

Geologists claim the polarity of Earth has changed repeatedly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal

Pure fantasy. I'm not saying there are no changes in magnetic field, but for them to claim they know the exact dates is baloney, they could have all been formed by electro-magnetic processes in very short order during huge, powerful, probably Solar originated 'storms'.

And in todays news:

Study of Idaho canyons suggests they were the result of massive flooding not erosion

(Phys.org) —A team of researchers is proposing that Idaho's Malad Gorge and two of its three unique heads were created by a massive flood 46,000 years ago. In their paper published in Proceeding of the National Academy of Sciences, the team members from California Institute of Technology describe a field study they undertook of the area and how their findings suggest the gorge was created by a flood, not erosion as has been previously thought.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2013-12-idaho-cany ... n.html#jCp

And from a link at the bottom of that page:

Geologist investigates canyon carved in just three days in Texas flood

In the summer of 2002, a week of heavy rains in Central Texas caused Canyon Lake -- the reservoir of the Canyon Dam -- to flood over its spillway and down the Guadalupe River Valley in a planned diversion to save the dam from catastrophic failure. The flood, which continued for six weeks, stripped the valley of mesquite, oak trees, and soil; destroyed a bridge; and plucked meter-wide boulders from the ground. And, in a remarkable demonstration of the power of raging waters, the flood excavated a 2.2-kilometer-long, 7-meter-deep canyon in the bedrock.

Read more at: http://phys.org/news196255219.html#jCp

So the river bed was loose, broken limestone blocks, I don't have a problem with that. Through solid, unbroken basalt or granite, those volumes and durations would, IMO, have done nothing.

The Earth might have turned over, that's one theory. But it might have been held in place magnetically as the same forces that rotate it were now braking it. That fits what i see in the western US.


The canyon in Idaho was probably filled with water as the basalt surrounding it came down from above as iron rich molten dust. I spent time there this past Summer. The flat basalt doesn't seem to be from a flow in many cases.

The river in Texas is cool. I was asked to photograph it by a long time EU insider.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... 4YWVk/edit

The image is near the end of the flooding. I couldn't get closer without spending 3 extra days.

I'm looking WSW from Access Rd.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... 4YWVk/edit

In almost all instances i see rivers preventing accumulation from above, which creates a canyon. It doesn't erode real rock like granite or basalt very well over the short time frames proposed.

If there is fresh slosh the retreating waters seem to remove it easily when a water current is created by the lowering of the water line to below the surface of Earth. Sedona AZ is a great example.

http://goo.gl/maps/d9JO0

All of the formations above are from a violent slosh, IMO. When the waters get down to basalt or other once molten rock the erosion stops abruptly.

michael

[moses]

The Earth might have turned over, that's one theory. But it might have been held in place magnetically as the same forces that rotate it were now braking it. That fits what i see in the western US.
michael
Well my theory is that the Americas were gripped by electrical forces, in the form of electrical interaction between the Americas and a planet (Mars). Thus we get the same effect that you put down to the whole of the Earth braking.

Flooding can have dramatic effects, and this makes one wonder whether there was once the full compliment of sediment in the Grand Canyon, for example. It just seems hard imagining all that sediment flushed out so violently in one event so that no trace remains of the sediment and little evidence exists nearby of such violence. Rather the sediment being rather loose seems more likely.

Cheers,
Mo

[starbiter]

Hi Mo,

The Grand Canyon wouldn't need to be full of sediment. But if there was a temporary sea there instead of a river it might have partially filled in. Then a river the width of the canyon might have cleaned out the sediment.

The link below shows Box Canyon, which is E of Mecca CA.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-GyNP5 ... N0MmM/edit

http://goo.gl/maps/OQcpX

http://goo.gl/maps/a62Sk Looking WSW while entering the canyon from the NE.

Most of the formations seem to be created by the welded tuff process. But there's a bathtub ring of slosh along the top of the canyon. The fluvial sediment is on the upper left. It's brownish. The slosh is on both sides of the upper canyon, at the same height. It appears the water level dropped before the upper areas were completely cleaned of slosh. There was more time for the lower areas to be flushed of the fresh sediment. The welded tuff formations were very resistant to the waters erosion.

michael

[GaryN]

Had a look at the Canyon Lake Gorge, and see it existed before the flood, and was not carved out by the flood. It was scoured out, yes, and moved a few limestone blocks, but that leaves the question of where the large amount of material has gone from the original formation of the canyon? I don't see huge piles of boulders downstream, and not at the junction with the Guadalupe River. Then where is all the material from the Guadalupe, which itself has a great amount of material missing. Perhaps over millions of years it has all been turned into fine sediment and washed away? I don't buy it. It looks to me that both waterways were electrically carved, much turned to dust, while at the same time shattering the canyon bed limestone to produce the chunks. I'm electric all the way, just in case you hadn't noticed. Anyway, got a nice fire going, soup pot on, off to watch Velikovsky!

[moses]

michael, If the canyon is already there when an event occurs then we would expect some odd effects or erosion and deposits, etc. I think this is what you are describing.

Thus I am saying that the canyon formed well before such an event, when the Earth was in a different planetary formation, and during the laying down of all the sediment of the geological column. So we have our differences, but we still have renegade planets and electrical effects, etc.
Cheers,
Mo

[starbiter]

Had a look at the Canyon Lake Gorge, and see it existed before the flood, and was not carved out by the flood. It was scoured out, yes, and moved a few limestone blocks, but that leaves the question of where the large amount of material has gone from the original formation of the canyon? I don't see huge piles of boulders downstream, and not at the junction with the Guadalupe River. Then where is all the material from the Guadalupe, which itself has a great amount of material missing. Perhaps over millions of years it has all been turned into fine sediment and washed away? I don't buy it. It looks to me that both waterways were electrically carved, much turned to dust, while at the same time shattering the canyon bed limestone to produce the chunks. I'm electric all the way, just in case you hadn't noticed. Anyway, got a nice fire going, soup pot on, off to watch Velikovsky!

Gary, it's my understanding there was never a drainage where the canyon was created. The drainage was where the dam is. A spillway was created where the gorge is.

The sediments that were removed by the flood were probably flushed far down stream as dirty water.

The flood over the spillway and through the gorge lasted for weeks, but i'm told by locals the gorge was created at the beginning when the flooding was strongest. In days.

michael