Are Mountains the Result of a Duning Process?

[venn]

This freshly put together information that Michael mentioned is accessible through two main entry points:

EU-Geology http://www.eu-geology.com/?page_id=105

Sedimentology http://www.eu-geology.com/?page_id=262

Each of those two pages has a little bit of intro and then subpages with further sections.

[starbiter]

This is a link to my NPA 19 paper.

http://www.worldnpa.org/site/abstract/?abstractid=6561

michael

[PersianPaladin]

This is a link to my NPA 19 paper.

http://www.worldnpa.org/site/abstract/?abstractid=6561

michael

Will you also be giving a talk? I enjoyed your last one.

[starbiter]

Thanks PP: My talk will involve Google maps and photographs. I'll try to show the patterns that seem to be consistent with the descriptions from Worlds in Collision. The rivers appear to have run in reverse. It wasn't just water that filled the drainage system. There were copious amounts of sediment filling the valleys up to 18,000 feet deep. The patterns of stratification differ greatly between duning and slurry runoff. Actually, sometimes it appears to be slurry run-up. The height of the slurry at the various locations implies a flood of well over 10,000 feet in places. The water could not return to the equator until the rotation had resumed, in my model. So the water and slurry would only be able to run down hill to the North. The mountains that surround the Colorado River drainage would confine the waters. The path of least resistance would be up the drainage, not over the passes.

I'm in Fraser CO now. This is where the Colorado River begins. The Fraser River runs North to the Colorado River in Granby. The Colorado River turns North in Granby for about 40 miles. Follow Hwy 34.

http://goo.gl/maps/gU5C Zoom out for perspective.

http://goo.gl/maps/KQZy

The valleys are filled with sediment to over 9,000' in many places.

The area around Leadville has even more sediment. The smooth areas on the map have been sloshed, IMHO.

http://goo.gl/maps/iHLZ

The material seems to have come from the South, but it's difficult to be certain. The material could have come from the North. The area to the North of Leadville along Hwy 24 is sloshed to a great height. I was shocked to see the pattern of underwater sedimentation with a current, to such a height. To the North of Leadville the water drains to the Colorado River drainage. The Colorado River drainage might have filled this valley from the North. For now i'm leaning towards the water rushing up from the SE.

East of Buena Vista the valley is almost completely sloshed in. There are only the tops of mountains sticking through.

http://goo.gl/maps/iHLZ

This would be the expected pattern if the Earth reversed it's rotation. This was Dr Velikovsky's position, not mine. My field observations agree with a scenario of the Sun rising in the West, then reversing to rise in the East today. A NW slosh might/would be inevitable.

I hope some of this is clear. Please let me know if this sounds like gibberish.

michael

[Sparky]

The valleys are filled with sediment to over 9,000' in many places.

What observations or measurements suggest that? How do you determine "sediments"?

[starbiter]

Hello Sparky: If You zoom in with Google maps terrain the elevation will appear. Leadville has flat sediment filled valleys at over 10,000 feet.

http://goo.gl/maps/T7pL

The smooth flat areas are sediment. The sediments are even higher than Leadville. The sedimentation patterns are very clear in the field.

The link below discusses the Sediment South of Palm Springs.

http://thesis.library.caltech.edu/4077/

[...]
Seismic refraction profiles were established at Thousand Palms, Truckhaven, Frink, and Westmorland. These give depths to basement of 4350, 5540, 7340, and 18,300 ft respectively. The Westmorland profile establishes the depth to basement near the center of the trough.

Me again,
Please try to visit the mountains and desserts to see the process for yourself.

michael

[starbiter]

I'd like to briefly explain my view on the Grand Canyon. I traveled to the canyon four years ago expecting to see the results of a thunderbolt scar. I've been reading the TPODs since they started. I know the EU version. When i looked at Google maps after my visit there was a problem. The North rim is 8,000 feet. The South rim is 7,000 feet. According to the thunderbolt excavation theory the ridges would have been connected prior to electrical excavation. I don't see a way around this.

http://goo.gl/maps/SNEk


The area with the blue marker is 6,500 feet. It would be easier for the Colorado River to run to the blue dot, then through a mountain.

http://goo.gl/maps/0Ksl

If there was a giant thunderbolt, it might travel the path of least resistance, through an existing river channel. Traveling through a mountain seems like the path of greatest resistance.


The process of creation might have been something like this. We start with the Colorado River draining South. Where the Grand Canyon is today was a high, dry point surrounding the river. During periods of wind and dust a dune forms on either side of the river. The river would prevent accumulation by removing material. At some point the dunes on either side of the river are converted to granite and schist by a high energy plasma event. When a friend converted loose ore into an igneous like rock he found that schist like material was produced when he allowed the process to run longer. The dunes converted to granite and schist would be difficult to erode.

If this area was flooded and sloshed during changes of Earth's rotation or axis, it would be covered in horizontal sedimentation. During dry periods of wind and dust it would be duned over. The last event seems to have been a slosh. There is a layer of carbonate [limestone and dolomite] as predicted by the Experiments In Stratification videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PVnBaqqQw8


After the last bit of accumulation the area seems to have been heated and bubbled electrically, causing the sediment to be lithified externally.

This is not the model i went looking for. This is the process i was confronted with.

The fact that this model of the process conforms to the descriptions from Worlds in Collision is an unexpected bonus. Dr V rocks.

michael

[starbiter]

I was asked if Asia showed signs of sloshing. Was there evidence that the Pacific Ocean rushed West. The flat valley in the image below would most likely be sediment. The mountains surrounding the sediment filled valleys are in the shape of a dune. The valley floor is almost 5,000 meters above sea level. That's well over 15,000 feet.

http://goo.gl/maps/aAbp Please zoom out for perspective.

This condition would be expected if the Pacific Ocean rushed West full of sediment.

The article below claims that the sediment is 12,000 meters in one place. That's over 39,000 feet.

http://www.igg.cas.cn/xwzx/yjcg/200912/ ... 974294.pdf

[...]
. As the largest basin in the northeast of the Tibetan
Plateau and with a maximum Cenozoic sediment thickness of ~12,000 m,
the Qaidam Basin possesses an important sedimentary archive for the
understanding of tectonic evolution, as well as climate change of the
northern Tibetan Plateau


Me again,
Of course i disagree with the geologic process proposed in the paper. There aren't to many slosh/dune papers to agree with.

The map in the link below shows many places with even greater sediment depths.

http://igppweb.ucsd.edu/~gabi/sediment.html



michael

[moses]

I still consider two possibilities for the formation of the Grand Canyon. EDM and uplift so that heights don't matter much. That is the electric current excavates and pulls at the same time.

The other possibility is that all the sediments around the Grand Canyon were formed at the same time and were soft and the region above the sediment was flooded with water which began to flow towards the Pacific and the river formed. The water would have gouged out sediment as it flowed in to the river from the sides, and as it flowed along the river.

The Velikovsky stuff would have come much later in the flooding scenario. The EDM Velikovsky scenario does seem to have some problems, although it almost certainly occurred on Mars.
Mo

[starbiter]

Hello Moses: The events described in Worlds in Collision would cause sediment carrying floods that would cover anything that came before, except mountains. I've tried to describe this. In your case i've failed.

After the floods there is evidence of zapping. Plasma ["The River off Fire"] seems to have melted the fresh sediment into rock of many types, in some places. IMO, both Venus and Mars were responsible for zapping. I attribute most of the duning [mountains] to Venus. The plague of darkness would supply dust, sand, gravel, rock, and large boulders to cover the surface of Earth from above. Mars was electrical, with sloshing, from my reading.

michael

[moses]

Michael, it is clear to me that the geological column was not formed in Velikovsky events. These sediment were formed by large scale laminated flows, probably a long time before Velikovsky events.

Venus and Mars produced the mountains, but by uplift due to EDM, plus retardation of the rotation of some continents. Flooding at this time produced large sediment as you describe but to a lesser extent, as I understand what you are proposing. And the zapping produced rocks as you describe also, but again to a lesser extent.

Thus our differences are due to my feeling that major effects occurred before the Venus and Mars interactions with Earth, plus the mountain forming processes.

Sorry if if push these differences too much.
Mo

[starbiter]

Hello Moses: Your reading of the work of Dr Velikovsky is much different than mine. A reversal of the sunrise would cause a flood of unmanageable proportions. But somehow you're sure this had nothing to do with the geologic column. Where does your confidence come from? Have You read Worlds in Collision lately? Have You considered the consequences of the world wide descriptions of catastrophe? What exactly is your certainty based on?

michael

[Sparky]

Michael, so called "sediments" at high altitude would require that mountains to be present at that time of deposition, or they be "raised" through the sediments at some time, unless the whole topography were produced at the same time.

These high altitude sediments should contain sea life fossils if the "slosh" hypothesis is correct. Do they?

thanks

[starbiter]

Hello Sparky: It appears to me that the mountains were already formed during the last slosh. The thick dust described during the "Plague of Darkness" would have supplied the material for dunes/mountains. At some point much of the duned material was lithified, but the timing is difficult to know. Dr Vellikovsky thought the last reversal of the sunrise was during the events associated with Mars. Probably around 687 BCE. That event, if historic would have covered the Earth with sediment as described in the "Experiments in Stratification" videos. This is what i see in the field. It's quite clear to see.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PVnBaqqQw8

michael

[starbiter]

Hello again Sparky: Concerning the fossil record, the following link should help.

http://www.bobspixels.com/kaibab.org/ge ... _layer.htm


The layers that are sloshed seem to be full of fossils. There are both fresh, and salt water varieties.

[...]

Temple Butte Limestone - This layer averages about 350 million years old and is composed of freshwater limestone in the east and dolomite in the west. In the eastern Grand Canyon this layer occurs irregularly and only then by way of limestone lenses that fill stream beds that have been eroded into the underlaying Mauv Limestone. Apart from these channels, which are quite large in places, the Redwall Limestone sits directly atop the Mauv Limestone. The Temple Butte Limestone is quite prominent, however, in the western regions and forms massive cliffs hundreds of feet high. The color of this layer ranges from purplish in the eastern regions to grey or cream colored in the west. The only fossils to be found in the eastern region are bony plates that once belonged to freshwater fish. In the western region there are numerous marine fossils.

Me again,
I hope this helps.


michael