Mars - miscellaneous anomalies

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Ramparts are signs of water??

Unread postby The Great Dog » Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:27 am

The Great Dog has serious reservations about the NASA pack's ability to hunt, or even smell their prey.

The landscape on Mars seems to exhibit the electrodynamic pulling force of electricity. Some of the TPOD pack has shown evidence for the effect. Craters with conical shapes, no blast debris, no rubble, scalloped edges, and "ramparts" are signs that material was yanked out of the ground and blown into space -- pulverized into molecular dust.

When the return stroke from the planet rose to meet whatever initiated the leader stroke, the electrons in the regolith dragged the neutral dust along with them up and away.

Notice how this crater looks as if multiple strands of energy were traveling upward from the center out. There are distinct channels carved side-by-side in the crater wall and the "hanging" dendritic ridges support the idea that the forces shown were upward, pulling forces, rather than downward, punching forces.

These are 3D anaglyphs, but the point can be made without the glasses.

Here too the craters are formed after the mounds are gathered. The material at the apices looks like it was drawn upward and away.

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Fulgurites & Mars Tubes

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:16 pm

* It seems that the tubes on Mars might be fulgurites, so I want to discuss that. I'll start with fulgurites.
* Here's an image of a very long fulgurite that was excavated from the ground. Looks like a blue bucket toward the right.
* And following is some discussion from It's interesting to me that lightning in sand etc acts just like lightning in air and can go very deep. EU contends that lightning penetrates lava or magma in volcanic openings. I guess lightning could help keep the magma liquid by heating it.
- The way our interest in fulgurites started was that we were doing work for the Electric Power Research Institute and the issue was, how does lightning get to underground power cables? At that time people thought that when lightning hit the ground it would just spread out and maybe get to the underground power cables. It turns out that what happens, in Florida sand for example, is that it doesn't spread out. It goes through the ground just like it goes through the air in a path that's about an inch in diameter.
- Q: Is lightning always an inch in diameter?
- Roughly. And when it goes into the ground, it just keeps going until it hits some conductor that can carry the current off—at least in soil like Florida soil.
- Q: How hot is that? Will it fry things underground as well as it goes through it?
- Well, it certainly melts the sand. And then the sand re-solidifies as glass to form fulgurites.
- Q: Do you take these fulgurites and read their configuration in any particular way? Is there nothing about their shape that is informative to you?
- The important thing to us about fulgurites is the way the total lightning current entered the ground and entered a power cable. So we excavated a lot of the fulgurites going into underground power cables. The cables were badly damaged by the heat of the lightning. So the fulgurite actually goes right down to the underground power cable and then glass sand is sort of welded onto the hole that the fulgurite makes in the cable. The fulgurites therefore assumed a practical importance at least in the underground cable industry. There are reports of explosions in lines that are a couple of thousand feet below the surface with no connecting wires. So the issue is, can lightning travel a couple of thousand feet into the earth into an underground line and set off the gas? And the answer is, "Why not?" It goes through ten miles of air and the breakdown characteristics of soil are not much different than air.
- Q: Are many fulgurites the size of the one whose photograph you sent us?
- Oh no. That's the largest fulgurite on record. It's in the Guinness Book of Records, actually. The reason that one stopped is because the water table is there and the current could flow into the water. So if you've got some place where it's just pure sand for a long way and there's not much water, it can go for a long way. And they'll be branched just like they are in the air. It's just hard to get the branches out [of the ground].
- Some fulgurites are really fat, and some are really skinny, and some have fat walls and some have thin walls. They're all hollow. In my view what makes a fulgurite beautiful is that it's big in diameter with a real shiny inside, and that the outside surface is fluted. It gets corrugated and then sometimes there are big flutes sticking out. And then there's the color issue: depending on the sand, they can be more pinkish, or bluish, or grayish.
A typical one-inch fulgurite sells for about $50. I would think our 17-footer ought to be worth a couple of million.

* Now, here's a short article about basalt fulgurites.
- Welcome to the website!
- Our online catalogue contains impact rocks, rare minerals and tektites from several astroblemes from Russia and Ukraine. Some unusual fulgurites are present here also.
- Impact rocks are divided by the categories. As a classification base I took the article "Morphological, structural and lithological records of terrestrial impacts: an overview" (pdf 3514 Kb) written by V. L. MASAITIS in Australian Journal of Earth Sciences (2005) 52, (509 - 528).
- Rare minerals presented here are also the product of the meteorite impact.
- Our fulgurites are very unique! The most of fulgurites you can find on market are the result of lightning hits the sand. Usually in the desert. So the chemically they are glass based on silica. They are also called Lechatelierite.
- Our fulgurites became a reality when the lightning hits the massive basaltic rocks. The event produces a hole in a rock and the melted substance was pushed out the hole. And then it was cool down.
- The basic chemical composition is: Na2O- 2,3; MgO - 5,6; Al2O3 - 13,2; SiO4 - 47,5; K2O-0,5; CaO - 10,1; TiO2 - 1,9; MnO-0,4; FeO- 13,5 : total 95,00%
- You can see that Silica is less that 50%!
- Here is an image of the actual hole in the basaltic rocks on the site how it was found ...!
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Re: Fulgurites & Mars Tubes

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:26 pm

* On the "Geodes" thread in May 08 I posted this info about caverns and fulgurites. I quoted first some excerpts from the Dec 7, 2007 TPOD about Electric Caverns: "gigantic uplifts such as Shiprock and the Brandberg Massif" could be fulgamites. Is the Grand Canyon like a cave without a roof? Are caves and caverns essentially fulgurites? Both are hollow.
- the majority of caverns contain mineralogical samples that cannot be defined through the corrosive action of water
- Giant Crystals Cave in the Naica Mine of Chihuahua, Mexico has mineral deposits of enormous size, as well as delicate flowers and wisps of crystal - formed out of semiconductor materials: selenite, calcium carbonate, silicon dioxide and lead sulfides. The crystal matrix shown above is an example of the "spray" that might have been created when a powerful electric current exploded out of the rock face into a void beneath the surface.
- The nuclei of charged particles could have been carried along with the current flow and either ionized by the passage of electricity, or forced out of solution within the solid medium. The filaments of energy flew out of a central point and then crossed empty air seeking the path of least resistance, whereupon they continued into the stone, impacting at multiple locations. Wherever the electric arcs passed they left behind consolidated crystals condensed along their interior trackways.
- Jenolan Caves near Sydney, Australia has Clear helicites everywhere with mind-boggling shapes that defy gravity. Some of the chambers within the cave complex are etched with Lichtenberg figures and upright columns of translucent gypsum crystal.

- *Fulgurites, or the fused trackway of lightning bolts through refractory minerals, are common in Jenolan and in most other caverns. Could *stalactites and stalagmites found therein actually be the remains of fulgurites? As we have suggested in the past, some geographical features, like rivers, may have "adopted" discharge channels after they were excavated by a plasma blast. Perhaps drops of water roll down stalactites after their formation as fulgurites?
- Lechuguilla Cave in New Mexico - in one of its vast rooms are thickets of gypsum blossoms like small crystal bushes. Merely walking too close is enough for them to collapse with tiny tinkling sounds. [It] has "boreholes" as well - horizontal tunnel that penetrates for miles into the rock - exhibits a helical shape - a spinning electric arc blasting out the material as it spiraled through the strata.
- In Mexico is Cave of Swallows, a favorite place for jumpers because it is 875 meters deep, similar to the "skylights" discovered on Mars.
- 4 kilometers from Almeria, in north-eastern Spain, was found a veritable crystal cave Inside a giant geode lined with near-perfect, transparent crystals of gypsum, some of which are 11 feet long.

* Here are some previous discussions.
Geodes etc
Possible electrical scars on Planet Earth
Grand Canyon formation
outdoor stalagmites and Death Coral
Last edited by Lloyd on Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Fulgurites & Mars Tubes

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:03 pm

* Now for the Mars Tubes. Here's a link to the Nov 16, 2005 TPOD on the subject.
* Here's part of what it says.
- But in the floors of many of these channels appear glassified ridges, or “fulgurites”, as in the Gorgonum Region noted above. On a smaller scale the lightning’s transverse coronal filaments, always perpendicular to the direction of the primary discharge, formed and fused the same characteristic ripples in the regolith of the Arrhenius Region. In some channels, multiple lightning strokes have cut terraces, each with its faint fulgurite ridges. The existence of these mysterious ridges is a crucial prediction of the Electric Universe.
- In the electric view, therefore, both the domed craters and the accompanying trenches of the Arrhenius Region are the result of cosmic lightning strikes. Where an electric arc “stuck” briefly for a while to a point on the surface before being extinguished, it produced domed craters, as in Dr. Ransom’s experiments. Dr. Ransom has informed us that in his experiments, if a lower energy arc was extinguished before a complete spherule was formed, the result was a dome. The fully rounded spherules were the result of higher-energy discharges. From the Electric universe viewpoint, the domed craters and the “wormy” channels simply reflect two common electrical discharge effects on a surface. We expect to find them in close association. And we can confidently predict that more extensive laboratory experimentation will confirm the association in every important detail.

* The third image below does show tubes associated with a crater.
* The tubes don't seem to branch the same way many Earth fulgurites do, but, otherwise, they seem very similar to fulgurites, except our fulgurites also don't have longitudinal stripes on them.
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Re: Fulgurites & Mars Tubes

Unread postby The Great Dog » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:08 am

The Great Dog suggests that they aren't tubes. Your eyes are playing tricks on you -- they are canyons with ripples on the bottoms. Turn the pictures over.

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Re: Fulgurites & Mars Tubes

Unread postby seasmith » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:40 pm

... except our fulgurites also don't have longitudinal stripes on them.

Or maybe yes...

... and that the outside surface is fluted. It gets corrugated and then sometimes...

I agree with Great Dog that they are concave structures in the Mars pics.

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Re: Fulgurites & Mars Tubes

Unread postby nick c » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:05 pm


Yes, it is a canyon or a rille. The ripples are on the floor of the rille.
Notice the shadow on the left wall of the rille, it corresponds to the crescent shading on the left half of the crater wall, showing that it is indeed a canyon/rille formation.
Very interesting formation!

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Re: Fulgurites & Mars Tubes

Unread postby Lloyd » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:11 pm

* Well, they're tubes in or near the bottoms of canyons. In the second image they're not at the bottoms. The canyons dip down, while the tube tops are curving the opposite way. The stripes are corrugations, like sand dunes.
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Re: Fulgurites & Mars Tubes

Unread postby bboyer » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:43 pm

I suggest there are also unmistakable similarities to ... "frozen in" ... topological effects from vibrational/cymatic phenomena. See original posting here in the Cymatics thread, . Depending on the browser used, if the link doesn't open directly to the relevant post it's on page 9 of the Cymatics thread (you may have to scroll down).


Or view the cymatics clip directly here ... =cymatics# starting at about the 10:09 mark for the above effects.
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Re: Fulgurites & Mars Tubes

Unread postby Lloyd » Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:31 pm

* That's interesting. I imagine electrical catastrophe would involve a lot of vibration like that. The forms still look tubular in the video, though maybe not hollow.
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Re: Fulgurites & Mars Tubes

Unread postby allynh » Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:35 pm

arc-us wrote:Or view the cymatics clip directly here ... 824944516# starting at about the 10:09 mark for the above effects.

arc-us, that is awesome. I'm going to post the link on the Duning thread in case they've missed it.

Guys, that is exactly what I was talking about in the Duning thread.

Lloyd, watch the way the material moves and that is how I see the crust forms, mixes, twists and tears, but all powered by plasma. Imagine that many different materials were involved, and that the process constantly transformed one type of rock into another.

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Re: Fulgurites & Mars Tubes

Unread postby mharratsc » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:52 pm

That was quite interesting. It would seem that frequency is what determines the shape of an event, and power & current it's size and duration.

I wonder- do double-layers form because the two separate layers consist of disharmonic frequencies then?

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Re: Fulgurites & Mars Tubes

Unread postby jjohnson » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:59 pm

There ARE plasma frequencies of various types depending on the morphology of the plasma bundle or filament, for sure. Whether and how these might interplay in order to create an insulating double layer or sheath, I have no concept whatsoever. Something is making that happen in real plasmas, however.

Here is another video from the same YouTube cymatics web page as above, but under NASA's signature. It is an artistically very interesting and satisfying animation of solar electromagnetic phenomena, but I think that it either needs better explanation or it should have been created physically like the Terella (that's what I thought I was looking at in the first frames) rather than just having been a computer graphics overlay on a lab/office environment as background. The dynamics are very good; the interpretation involving open field lines and magnetic reconnections are the usual suspects, however.

Sorry; this is off-point.

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Strange Mars Photo Includes Tantalizing 'Tree' Illusion

Unread postby junglelord » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:15 am

My first question is are these electrical in nature?
I will bet my bottom dollar that YES, they are electcrical in nature.
Naturally erupting dust clouds on Mars are creating structures that look surprisingly like trees near the planet's north pole. But don't be fooled – it's just an optical illusion, NASA scientists say.

The Martian "trees" are actually dark basaltic sand pushed to the surface of sand dunes by sun-heated solid carbon dioxide ice, or dry ice, sublimating directly into vapor, explained Candy Hansen, a member of NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) team at the University of Arizona.

The sand dunes form a nearly complete ring around Mars' north pole and are covered by a thin layer of reddish Martian dust and patches of dry ice. To date, there is no firm evidence of any type of Martian biology, past or present, plant or otherwise.

In the Martian spring, the sun warms the ice, causing it to sublimate directly into vapor, and the resulting gas dislodges surrounding dust and sand particles.

"What we think is happening is that the dark sand is sliding down the bright frosted portion of the dune," Hansen told

The image, taken by MRO's High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (HiRISE) camera, is part of a series of Martian images appearing in a special issue of the journal Icarus this month.

The Martian illusion is not the first to capture the imaginations of people on Earth.

In 1976, a photograph of a rock formation on Mars beamed to Earth by NASA's Viking 1 orbiter looked to many like a face carved in the Martian surface. The Face on Mars photo's legacy has survived to this day, even after additional observations by more advanced spacecraft have revealed it to be a trick of light and shadows.

Since then, other Martian illusions have popped up in images from orbiters and rovers, including an object that resembled a small bunny and a rock that looked like a female figure to some and Bigfoot to others.

The streaks in the new image look as if they are rising up from the sand dunes, but that's an illusion, Hansen said. "You're looking at the slip face of the dune, and where the sand comes to a stop, it forms a sort of scallop-shaped edge at the bottom."

Each dark sand streak can measure up to 164 feet (50 meters) in length.

HiRISE actually caught one of the dust eruptions as they happened.

"If you look closely, you can see this little dust cloud casting a tiny shadow," Hansen said. ... 00113.html
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Re: Strange Mars Photo Includes Tantalizing 'Tree' Illusion

Unread postby allynh » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:27 am

Oh, that is scary. What the heck are they.
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