Mars - miscellaneous anomalies

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: New Mars Images

Unread postby MGmirkin » Thu Jul 17, 2008 5:36 pm

longcircuit wrote:I'm not buying the idea these Martian features were created by flowing water.
First: where was the source of the water?


If I might be self-referential for a moment, this post from another thread might be helpful...

(Not by a trickle...)
viewtopic.php?p=5911#p5911

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Re: Was it really "water" that made those phyllosilicates?

Unread postby MGmirkin » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:03 pm

FS3 wrote:What most of our astroscientists don´t seem to recognize are those clearly visible Lichtenberg-figures that we see at the end of almost each of those "offsprings" that form the Echus valley!


Or, more to the point, the lichtenberg-ish dendritic ridges issuing from the upper rims of the Valles. Certainly not expected of water erosion, but bearing striking similarity to Dendritic Flux Avalanches (electrical incursions into a super conductor), as recent discussed here:

(Dendritic Flux Avalanche vs. Dendritic Ridges?)
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=792
viewtopic.php?p=7370#p7370
viewtopic.php?p=7371#p7371

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Re: New Mars Images

Unread postby substance » Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:07 am

The water channels sure look like lichtenberg figures, but what about the clay deposits seen in the spectrography? Maybe just electric discharge carved the channels and then water came from somewhere?
By the way, you should definitely see this > http://capturedlightning.com/frames/lichtenbergs.html
I want to buy one of these carved plates and light it with blue or red LEDs. How cool would that be!
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Re: New Mars Images

Unread postby MGmirkin » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:11 am

substance wrote:The water channels sure look like lichtenberg figures, but what about the clay deposits seen in the spectrography? Maybe just electric discharge carved the channels and then water came from somewhere?
By the way, you should definitely see this > http://capturedlightning.com/frames/lichtenbergs.html
I want to buy one of these carved plates and light it with blue or red LEDs. How cool would that be!


Ohh, trust me, I've read and referenced that page many a time. :D Good stuff! I think they even update it from time to time with new pictures, videos, etc.

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Re: New Mars Images

Unread postby MGmirkin » Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:57 am

They make a few interesting links I hadn't seen before:

(Electrical treeing)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_treeing

(Partial discharge)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partial_discharge

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Re: New Mars Images

Unread postby moses » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:01 pm

The water channels sure look like lichtenberg figures, but what about the clay deposits seen in the spectrography? Maybe just electric discharge carved the channels and then water came from somewhere? substance
Aren't they saying that Mars was once watery and a lot of clay formed there.
This clay was buried by volcanic rocks, and later the craters exposed the
clays. Now if Mars was wet in ancient times then it has gone through big
changes !

Are they claiming evidence for recent water erosion ?
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Re: New Mars Images

Unread postby substance » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:51 am

So you`re suggesting that channels were carved long after there was no water on Mars? Makes sense to some extent, but what evidence of mars vulcanism do we have? I haven`t seen any publications on this.
EDIT: Echus Chasma does look like a scar from plasma discharge (can`t really find a translation for this world in my language), but the news about Clays found is about the Nili Fossae region and from the 3D picture it doesn`t look very lichtenberg-like to me. :roll:
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Re: New Mars Images

Unread postby tholden » Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:20 am

Then again, for those who can handle it at least, concerning the question of water on Mars, at some point one has to note that it would take some minimal level of sobriety to create megalithic structures, i.e. that it is not easy to picture the structures at the Cydonia region of Mars having been created by people who were limiting their intake of fluids to alcoholic beverages:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=846&p=8488#p8488
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Re: New Mars Images

Unread postby moses » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:22 pm

So you`re suggesting that channels were carved long after there was no water on Mars? Makes sense to some extent, but what evidence of mars vulcanism do we have? substance
I found this :
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/s ... 11113.html
Among the ramifications of the new discovery is a potential for ongoing thermal and water sources to sustain or start an environment compatible with life. This environment may have occurred in recent Martian geologic time, and could still be present today, according to Sakimoto.

There is probably better geological information on Mars, about. However the
probability that Mars was very alive before the Saturn System break-up, is
growing.
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Re: New Mars Images

Unread postby redeye » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:02 am

I,ve posted before regarding the erosionary force of water under 0.6g and the possibility that such landscape features on Mars may have been cut by dust "raining" out of the atmosphere after a large dust storm.

erosion by dust particles

I'm also pretty sure that it is the air bubbles in a fluid that do most of the actual eroding.

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Re: New Mars Images

Unread postby nick c » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:53 pm

We seem to be dealing with two seperate issues concerning the existence of water in Mars' past. They are not mutually exclusive.
1. Most of the prominent features (Olympus Mons, Valles Marineris, etc) were most likely carved out by enormous electrical discharges on a planetary scale
2. Assuming that #1 is true, does not exclude the possibility that before Mars surface was catastrophically transformed, it's previous incarnation may have possessed oceans and/or lakes and rivers and in general a more Earthlike environment...and life, in some form of complexity.

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Re: New Mars Images

Unread postby redeye » Mon Jul 28, 2008 5:41 pm

We seem to be dealing with two seperate issues concerning the existence of water in Mars' past. They are not mutually exclusive.
1. Most of the prominent features (Olympus Mons, Valles Marineris, etc) were most likely carved out by enormous electrical discharges on a planetary scale
2. Assuming that #1 is true, does not exclude the possibility that before Mars surface was catastrophically transformed, it's previous incarnation may have possessed oceans and/or lakes and rivers and in general a more Earthlike environment...and life, in some form of complexity.


Good point. The images from Mars that appear to show features cut by flowing water come from all over Mars. I firmly believe that through some catastrophic mechanism Mars lost it's northern hemispheric crust at some point in the past (my favoured hypothesis would be an exploding double layer). It seems to me that most of the "water features" on Mars were formed after it's catastrophic disruption, possibly after wobbling too close to Jupiter and getting zapped. I reckon a close pass by Jupiter is what cost Mars it's Northern crust too!

In the past, when astronomers looked at Mars through their telescopes, they saw straight lines that they figured were channels carrying water, Schiaparelli called them canali and it was translated in the West as canals. Later observations failed to reveal these features and Schiaparelli's canalis were thought to be due to an optical illusion. Could it be possible that dust storms had started to obscure channels, cut by electrical discharge, to the extent that they were hidden until robotic exploration of Mars revealed them once again?

I'd love for one of the Mars probes to find evidence of life. Unfortunately, most of them are sent to the Northern hemisphere, and I don't think that's the original surface they are rolling about on. Cydonia is in the northern hemispheric depression.

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Re: New Mars Images

Unread postby Forum Moderator » Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:13 pm

See latest thread re: discovery of perchlorates in mars soil...

(Perchlorates in Mars Soil. Electrochemical / Electrolytic?)
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=900

Please discuss the new development on that thread.

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Mars:very unusual image from NASA

Unread postby WhiteLight » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:08 am

I came across this "very unusual" image from NASA .
Any one on Thunderbolts come across this before ?
Any one care to offer a theory ? As I'm a little perplexed !

Martian enigma ? :idea: :) :shock:
"Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality"
Nikola Tesla, Modern Mechanics and Inventions, July, 1934.
Fast forward 74Yrs->yawn! :)
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Re: Mars:very unusual image from NASA

Unread postby redeye » Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:58 am

It's not wood! If it is, it must be fossilised as the rover has run right over the top of it without causing any visible damage. And any wood lying around on the surface of Mars would be pretty dessicated.

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