Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

Moderators: bboyer, MGmirkin

Locked
Anaconda
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread post by Anaconda » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:21 pm

Hi :) Ion01:
Ion01 wrote:
I recall, but, but cannot find, an experiment in which, I beleive, they used one of these machines that makes diamonds and put rock, water, and air or nitogen and compressed it and they got oil and gases and the types varied on the ratio of each component present. Does anyone else recall this or can find this?
The experiment was reported in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America: The evolution of multicomponent systems at high pressures: VI. The thermodynamic stability of the hydrogen–carbon system: The genesis of hydrocarbons and the origin of petroleum, 2002

http://www.pnas.org/content/99/17/10976.full

A passage from the Abstract:
...For experimental verification of the predictions of the theoretical analysis, a special high-pressure apparatus has been designed that permits investigations at pressures to 50 kbar and temperatures to 1,500°C and also allows rapid cooling while maintaining high pressures. The high-pressure genesis of petroleum hydrocarbons has been demonstrated using only the reagents solid iron oxide, FeO, and marble, CaCO3, 99.9% pure and wet with triple-distilled water...


And the concluding passage from the Abstract:
The fifth section reports the experimental results obtained using equipment specially designed to test the predictions of the previous sections. Application of pressures to 50 kbar and temperatures to 1,500°C upon solid (and obviously abiotic) CaCO3 and FeO wet with triple-distilled water, all in the absence of any initial hydrocarbon or biotic molecules, evolves the suite of petroleum fluids: methane, ethane, propane, butane, pentane, hexane, branched isomers of those compounds, and the lightest of the n-alkene series.
Yes, Earth is a storehouse of chemicals and molecules that with sufficient temperature, pressure, and electromagnetic energy, will react, transmutate, or serve as catalysts to chemically bond abiotic hydrogen & carbon into petroleum, facilitating hydrogen's & carbon's natural chemical affinity due to their respective electron configurations.


Ion01: Yes, diamondoids (little brother to diamonds) have been found in oil and the deeper and hotter the petroleum the larger and more complex the diamondoids.
The diamondoids are formed in the extreme heat and pressure found in crude oil buried at great depths, so petroleum deposits exposed to hotter temperatures should be enriched in the molecules, Carlson said, adding that gas condensates found in deposits rich in natural gas seem to be the best sources for diamondoids.
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/energy-tech-04ze.html

This discovery of diamondoids in oil with greater concentrations in oil pumped from greater depths in the Earth's crust also suggests that oil is abiotic because if diamondoids only form in the same environment as diamonds which requires high heat and pressure then it is likely that the oil formed at these great depths as well, excluding the possibility of organic detritus getting to these great depths. And, as Ion01 stated, there is strong suggestion that diamond and diamondoid formation are facilitated by electromagnetic energy.

And, as pointed out earlier, pillow lava erupting at 2000 degrees Fahrenheit under the sea has been found to contain bitumen, a solid hydrocarbon. And, perhaps, of equal interest, the lava contained fullerines, C60,(also called "buckyballs") and these fullerines have been found around lightning strikes and fullerines have been found in meteorites which also contain hydrocarbons.

Which all points to Earth's deep storehouse of abiotic chemicals being an active place, driven by immense pressures, temperatures, and electromagnetic energy where countless chemical reactions take place on a continuing and ongoing basis.

User avatar
webolife
Posts: 2539
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:01 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread post by webolife » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:36 pm

Well, what do ya know????? I'm out of arguments. :D
The diamond-buckyball-meteoritic hydrocarbon connection kinda pushed me over, I think.
I still hold out for the possibility that a source of CaCO3 may be biotic, as fossil reef... let's make that a question.
I stick with my coal view for now...
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.

Anaconda
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread post by Anaconda » Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:36 pm

webolife:
webolife wrote:
Well, what do ya know????? I'm out of arguments.
The diamond-buckyball-meteoritic hydrocarbon connection kinda pushed me over, I think.
I still hold out for the possibility that a source of CaCO3 may be biotic, as fossil reef... let's make that a question.
I stick with my coal view for now...
I appreciate your reconderation of the evidence. It takes objective, scientific discipline to reconsider an opinion, particularly of a firmly held view.

Let's further explore the meteorite evidence:

Meteorites that contain hydrocarbons are also called carbonaceous chondrites:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonaceous_chondrite

The hydrocarbons contained in these meteorites consist of aliphatic and aromatic hydrocarbons (distinctions based on molecular structure).

These meteorites also contain fullerines ("buckyballs") and, further, of interest, the minerals olivine and serpentintite.
They [carbonaceous condrites] are composed mainly of silicates, oxides and sulfides, while the minerals olivine and serpentinite are characteristic.
The fact these meteorites contain olivine and serpentinite is important.

Why?

Because olivine and serpentinite have been identified as base materials for the formation of petroleum:

http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/docum ... /keith.htm
Peridotites, Serpentinization, and Hydrocarbons

Stanley B. Keith and Monte M. Swan
MagmaChem, L.L.C, Sonoita, AZ

Serpentinization of peridotites by oceanic or metamorphic sourced brines under strongly reduced conditions and temperatures of 200-500 C produces hydrocarbon-rich, chloride and/or bicarbonate metal-bearing brines. Serpentinization is common on the ocean floor along fracture zones (Lost City), beneath conventional petroleum in rifts due to sedimentary burial (Gulf of Mexico) or thrust loading (Roan Trough), and at the top of flat subducting oceanic crust (Eocene beneath UT, CO, WY). Peridotites exhibit high-gravity, low-magnetic signatures. Serpentinized peridotites exhibit high-magnetic, low-gravity signatures. Volume expansion during serpentinization of up to 8X causes diapiric doming and induces expulsion of hydrocarbon-stable brines. There are 2 major types of peridotites: 1) magnesian dunitic peridotite with low V/Ni, high Au-Mg-Cu-Cr-Na/K, up to1400 ppm C (lithosphere source 51-130 km), 2) quartz alkalic aluminum-spinel peridotite with high V/Ni, high S-Mo-Ti-Al-Mn-Fe-U-K/Na up to 800 ppm C (athenosphere source 360-420 km). If hydrogen-stable (mainly thermogenic methane) peridotite-sourced brines rise into shelf carbonate sequence, they may form magnesian or quartz alkalic hydrothermal dolomite (HTD) and thermogenic gas. If the brines breech the hydrosphere they may produce "white smokers" (tuffa vent mounds/pinnacle reefs) along faults and enrich shales with exhalative metal and hydrocarbon. Petroleum condensate typically forms in reservoirs between the HTD zone and seep sites at the top of the lithosphere. Type I kerogen in black shale vents from Mg peridotite-sourced brines whereas Type II kerogen in black shale vents from quartz alkalic peridotite-sourced brines. Correspondingly hydrocarbon chemistry divides oil and gas into 2 major types: 1) magnesian sweet, low-sulfur paraffinic-naphtheric, 2) quartz alkalic sour, high-sulfur aromatic asphaltic. Geochemical markers that tie oil and gas to specific peridotite hydrothermal sources include nano-particle native metals and diamonds, and V-Ni porphyrins.
The above abstract is important because it explains the chemical process of hydrocarbon formation, even providing an abiotic explanation for the two types of kerogen and for low sulphur ("sweet" oil) and high sulphur ("sour" oil) petroleum. And, also identifies olivine and serpentintite as being central actors in the hydrocarbon formation process -- as peridotite contains olivine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peridotite
A peridotite is a dense, coarse-grained igneous rock, consisting mostly of the minerals olivine and pyroxene. Peridotite is ultramafic, as the rock contains less than 45% silica. It is high in magnesium, reflecting the high proportions of magnesium-rich olivine, with appreciable iron. Peridotite is derived from the Earth's mantle, either as solid blocks and fragments, or as crystals accumulated from magmas that formed in the mantle.


And, the mineral olivine is constituted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivine
The mineral olivine (when gem-quality also called peridot) is a magnesium iron silicate with the formula (Mg,Fe)2SiO4. It is one of the most common minerals on Earth, and has also been identified in meteorites and on the Moon, Mars, and comet Wild 2.
And the following passage explains why serpentintite is important as it provides hydrogen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpentinite
Serpentinite is a rock composed of one or more serpentine group minerals. Minerals in this group are formed by serpentinization, a hydration and metamorphic transformation of ultramafic rock from the Earth's mantle. The alteration is particularly important at the sea floor at tectonic plate boundaries.
Notice that each of the above minerals are identified as coming from the mantle with serpentinite found at tectonic plate boundaries ("cracks of the world").

As the "Peridotites, Serpentinization, and Hydrocarbons", abstract states, dolomite acts as a feedstock and potentially as a catalyst for the hydrogen & carbon chemical affinity and electro-thermal molecular bonding.

And, there is no need to invoke "fossil reefs" as dolomite has carbon as part of its molecular composition:

http://www.theimage.com/mineral/dolomite/index.htm
Name: Dolomite; Class: Carbonates; Chemistry: CaMg(CO3)2 Calcium Magnesium Carbonate
Dolomite has also been identified as a mantle mineral:
Envronment: sedimentary rocks, metamorphic rocks, in hypothermal veins, and hydrothermal replacements
Note: It's questionable as to whether dolomite is a sedimentary mineral, as no active deposition has ever been observed & measured by geophysicists.

Dolomite is found in association with 80% of hydrocarbon deposits in North America.

Also, carbonates have been observed & measured to volcanically erupt at the Earth's surface:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 133823.htm
Why Is The Earth’s Mantle Conductive? ScienceDaily (Dec. 4, 2008) — Researchers from INSU-CNRS, working with chemists at a CNRS research unit, have explained that the high conductivity of the Earth’s upper mantle is due to molten carbonates. They demonstrated the very high conductivity of this form of carbon. Appearing in the 28 November issue of Science, their work has revealed the high carbon content of the interior of the upper mantle. This composition can be directly linked to the quantity of carbon dioxide produced by 80% of volcanoes.
Geologists have long claimed that significant amounts of carbon have been present in the Earth’s mantle for thousands of years. Up until now, there was very little direct proof of this hypothesis, and samples from the surface of the mantle contained only very small quantities of carbon. Also, for the last thirty years, scientists have been unable to explain the conductivity of the mantle, which is crossed by natural electrical currents at depths of 70 to 350 km, even though olivine, one of the main mineral components of the upper mantle, is completely isolating.
To explain these phenomena, researchers from the Institut des Sciences de la Terre d'Orléans (ISTO, CNRS / Université de Tours / Université d'Orléans) looked into liquid carbonates, one of the most stable forms of carbon within the mantle, along with graphite and diamond. The Masai volcano is Tanzania is the only place in the world where these carbonates can be observed. Elsewhere, the carbonates are dissolved in basalts and emitted into the atmosphere in gaseous form, as CO2.
Based on lab measurements at CNRS’s CEMHTI, the researchers established the high conductivity of molten carbonates. Their conductivity is 1000 times higher than that of basalt, which was previously thought to be the only potential conductor in the mantle. Fabrice Gaillard and his team have shown that the conductivity of the Earth’s mantle is a result of the presence of small amounts of molten carbonates between chunks of solid rock.
The ScienceDaily article is well worth reading and worthy of extended quotes as it ties up not just hydrocarbon formation in terms of carbon requirements, but also discusses electrical conductivity of the mantle & crust which supplies the electrical energy discussed in this thread for hydrocarbon formation, and as posited by the Electric Universe paradigm.

Finally, it should be noted that "rare earth minerals" are found in association with hydrocarbons as the above "peridotite" abstract suggests and as this other Keith & Swan abstract discusses:

http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/docum ... /keith.htm
Geochemistry of hydrocarbons, experimental work, and mass-balance calculations have identified the fluids that produce HTD as hot, strongly-reduced, hydrocarbon-rich chloride and/or bicarbonate brines containing elements exotic to basins such as Mg, Fe, Ni, V, Se, Co, and Zn. Indeed, many oil field brines may represent the original hydrothermal carrier fluid for reservoir hydrocarbons.
The above abstract is, again, well worth reviewing as it ties together the previous discussion of the various chemical pathways and physical explanations for the formation of Abiotic Oil.

And here is an abstract that discusses "rare earth metals" in hydrocarbons and that these metals have been identified as "mantle" elements, rare in the crust, but more plentiful in the mantle:

http://www.searchanddiscovery.net/abstr ... ivanov.htm
New data have been obtained from 59 rare, rare-earth and other elements in crude oil from the West Siberian and the giant Romashkino deposit of the Tatarstan Republic. ICP-MS analyses made with high resolution mass-spectrometer ELEMENT 2. The principle geochemical anomalies in these samples include limitedly low content of most elements, except for the elements V, Ni, Cr, Ca, Sr, Na, Rb, Cs. For the West-Siberian oils marked a PGE (platinoid) presence in substantial quantities, especially of palladium.
As can be reviewed, hydrocarbon deposits are consistent with deep origin, as the above abstract reports oil having "rare earth" minerals.

User avatar
starbiter
Posts: 1445
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:11 am
Location: Antelope CA
Contact:

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread post by starbiter » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:53 pm

Have the folks on this thread considered oil from comets in the upper regions of the Earth's crust. Especially Oil Shale, and the massive pools of oil under the sand in the Middle East. Also the oil in Bituminous Coal.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/deepi ... 90705.html

The link above has Aromatic Hydrocarbons, and carbonates in the coma of Temple 1

I'm not opposed to deep earth production of oil. Just open to comet oil.
I Ching #49 The Image
Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

www.EU-geology.com

http://www.michaelsteinbacher.com

User avatar
nick c
Moderator
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:12 pm
Location: connecticut

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread post by nick c » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:57 am

starbiter wrote:I'm not opposed to deep earth production of oil. Just open to comet oil.
I am with you there. The two are not mutually exclusive, but are actually complementary. Whatever processes produce hydrocarbons in the deep Earth would no doubt be in action on other worlds:
The abiogenic hypothesis argues that petroleum was formed from deep carbon deposits, perhaps dating to the formation of the Earth. The presence of methane on Saturn's moon Titan is cited as evidence supporting the formation of hydrocarbons without biology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin
Saturn's Methane Moon:
http://www.astrobio.net/exclusive/2070/ ... thane-moon

If one accepts some form of planetary catastrophism then the possible extraterrestrial origin of at least some petroleum deposits could be expected.

Nick

User avatar
GaryN
Posts: 2668
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:18 pm
Location: Sooke, BC, Canada

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread post by GaryN » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:28 pm

A little off-topic perhaps, but I'm posting this here as Anaconda was just discussing meteorite composition, and he seems to talk a lot of sense. :D Views from others welcome too!

This is the only instance, I think, where a largish meteorite has been found below an apparent impact crater. I am wondering if this 'fossil' is more the result of electrical activity, seems mighty deep for an object to have penetrated, and remained intact while surrounded by impact melt. The composition, to those who understand, probably offers the bigger clues?

http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/June06/Morokweng.html
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller

Anaconda
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread post by Anaconda » Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:55 pm

Hi nick c:
starbiter wrote:
I'm not opposed to deep earth production of oil. Just open to comet oil.
nick c wrote:
I am with you there. The two are not mutually exclusive, but are actually complementary. Whatever processes produce hydrocarbons in the deep Earth would no doubt be in action on other worlds:
(...)
nick c wrote:
If one accepts some form of planetary catastrophism then the possible extraterrestrial origin of at least some petroleum deposits could be expected.
It is without dispute that hydrocarbons from meteorites have been found on Earth. The question becomes how much of the hydrocarbons on Earth are from meteorites? Well, that would depend on how many meteorites with hydrocarbons fell to Earth (not all meteorites have hydrocarbons embedded in them) and how concentrated the meteorite showers fell and so forth. There are a lot of unknowns which prevent a definite answer. But I would suggest that it is a lessor than a greater amount. This discussion has primarily focussed on ultra-deep oil in large reservoirs. Ultra-deep oil concentrated in large reservoirs is less likely to be from meteorites.
starbiter wrote:
Have the folks on this thread considered oil from comets in the upper regions of the Earth's crust. Especially Oil Shale, and the massive pools of oil under the sand in the Middle East. Also the oil in Bituminous Coal.
It is not likely that the "massive pools of oil under the sand in the Middle East" is the result of hydrocarbon emplacement by meteorites.

Let's look at the Ghawar oil field, the largest oil field in the world in Saudi Arabia:

Under the Ghawar oil field there is an active fracture network in the crystalline basement much as has been discussed previously for other oil fields of the world and the oil rises up from this fracture network and is lodged in sedimentary trapping structures:
Ghawar is a large north-trending anticlinal structure, some 250 kilometers long and 30 kilometers wide. It is a drape fold over a basement horst, which grew initially during the Carboniferous Hercynian deformation and was reactivated episodically, particularly during the Late Cretaceous. In detail, the deep structure consists of several en echelon horst blocks that probably formed in response to right-lateral transpression. The bounding faults have throws exceeding 3000 feet at the Silurian level but terminate within the Triassic section.
http://www.searchanddiscovery.net/docum ... /index.htm

What is interesting about the, above, passage is that while Ghawar is described as "over a basement horst...and was reactivated episodically...[and] the deep structure consists of several en echelon horst blocks...", the, above, passage makes no link between this active basement structure and the ultimate source of the oil (perhaps, the conventional view blinds the author to this connection).

Others, however, have made this connection explicit:
These oil field structures are mostly produced by extensional block faulting in the crystalline Precambrian basement along the predominantly N-S Arabian Trend which constitutes the 'old grain' of Arabia. This type of basement horst, which has been periodically reactivated, underlies the world's largest oil field, Ghawar, and other major oil fields, such as Khurais, Mazalij and Abu Jifan. The basement horst beneath Ghawar Anticline has been suggested by Aramco (1959), from a positive Bouguer gravity anomaly which practically mirrors the field, and more recently, in greater detail, by Barnes (1987).
All Saudi Arabian offshore oil fields, and some near coastal fields, such as Abu Hadriya, Abqaiq and Dammam, are also produced by basement faulting which has cut the saliferous, Upper Precambrian Hormuz Series, triggering deep-seated salt diapirism.
(See, Basement tectonics of Saudi Arabia as related to oil field structures, by H. Stewart Edgell:)

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/brcgranier/ ... l_1992.htm

It might also be intellectually fruitful to take a look at Iraq and its tectonic setting:
Iraq is part of the Zagros and Arabian sedimentary provinces, according to St. John et al. (1984) (Figure 1). The former is a folded belt, related to A-subduction; and the Arabian province is a foredeep, in which the ramp has buried grabens, but with little blockfaulting (St. John et al., 1984). Fields are present in both provinces (Figures 2, 3, and 4). Konert et al. (2001) consider the foredeep in front of the Zagros (Figures 5 and 6) as a part of a very widespread stable platform. Versfelt (2001) shows the Zagros ãForeland Basinä to flank the the Zagros mountain front from the northeast-trending Khleissia high in the north to Hormuz in the south (Figure 6). The Zagros sedimentary province includes the Kirkuk (Sirwan) embayment, Lurestan, Dezful Embayment (Khuzestan), and Fars, the last three being predominantly in Iran. The embayments are the most prolific oil-producing areas. The fields, generally spectacular anticlines, trend northwest, except north of Mosul, where the folded belt becomes more easterly (Figure 7). Outside the Zagros belt are north-trending fields (e.g., Rumaila) and northwest-trending fields (e.g., East Baghdad). The fields in Southern Iraq trending north seemingly are related to fields in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia with similar orientation, which parallels extensional fault trends. Maps of fields, cross-sections, and generalized stratigraphic columns/diagrams are shown in Figures 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, and 16.
http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/docum ... /index.htm

This paper provides a series of maps and schematics that lay out the geologic structure of Iraq: After study it is evident that the oil fields are found in close association with geologic structures and is likely not evidence of build-ups of meteorite hydrocarbons which would likely not be so closely associated with internal geologic structures.

Figure 5. from the paper is a good schematic for outlining the geologic structure of Iraq:

http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/docum ... ges/05.htm

So, while definite answers regarding the amount of meteorite hydrocarbons is impossible, the best evidence suggests that most hydrocarbons in the Earth's crust are the result of internal Earth dynamics and not the result of meteorite bombardment.

User avatar
starbiter
Posts: 1445
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:11 am
Location: Antelope CA
Contact:

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread post by starbiter » Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:09 pm

Hello Anaconda: I refer to a close encounter with Venus when it was a comet. The eyewitnesses claimed oil fell from the sky in large volume. "My cup runneth over with oil". See Worlds in Collision. We're not talking no stinking meteorite here.

The sand covered the oil right after falling.

michael
I Ching #49 The Image
Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

www.EU-geology.com

http://www.michaelsteinbacher.com

Grey Cloud
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Wed Feb 24, 2010 4:36 pm

Hi Starbiter,
I just read Velikovsky's account of this oil business and I'm not convinced. The evidence cited all mentions rain (as opposed to a deluge) but, as I see it, given the short time span for the raining it could not produce the millions of gallons of oil in the any one of the world's oil fields. Maybe Anaconda could give us an average amount? I'm not saying that it didn't rain oil/bitumen just that I doubt it could have produced the amount of oil that is on the planet.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

User avatar
starbiter
Posts: 1445
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:11 am
Location: Antelope CA
Contact:

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread post by starbiter » Wed Feb 24, 2010 5:43 pm

Hello Grey Cloud: I made it perfectly clear that i was open to oil production in the deep earth. So the oil from Venus wasn't the ONLY source of oil on Earth, in my mind.

The three examples i gave, Oil Shale, Bituminous Coal, and the oil under the Middle Eastern Sands, seem problematic for deep earth production. Not impossible.

michael
I Ching #49 The Image
Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

www.EU-geology.com

http://www.michaelsteinbacher.com

User avatar
nick c
Moderator
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:12 pm
Location: connecticut

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread post by nick c » Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:55 pm

hi GC, starbiter, et al:
Based on accounts of rains of naphtha, bitumen, and burning pitch Velikovsky theorized that during past catastrophes liquid hydrocarbons were deposited on the Earth from an extraterrestrial source(s). He did not write anywhere that all the oil of Earth was deposited in the catastrophes. His theory works best with the abiotic theory than with the fossil theory, since by implication it must have been produced on planets not known to have any biology. However, he did not, to my knowledge, get into the abiotic/fossil debate probably because he already had enough battles to fight. If the abiotic theory is radical today it was even more so in 1950, only receiving support from a small group of Soviet geologists.

p288 Earth In Upheaval:
This destroys the main argument the geologists have raised against the theory of the exogenous origin of some deposits of oil...

highlight added
It is clear from that quote that he was specifying that only some unspecified portion of the Earth's oil was of extraterrestrial origin.

Nick

User avatar
GaryN
Posts: 2668
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:18 pm
Location: Sooke, BC, Canada

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread post by GaryN » Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:59 pm

Stellar, Metal-Free Way to Make Carbon Nanotubes
The finding is the surprising by-product of lab experiments designed by Joseph Nuth at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md. and his colleagues to address the astronomical question of how carbon gets recycled in the regions of space that spawn stars and planets. The work also could help researchers understand puzzling observations about some supernovas.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 214434.htm

I put this under planetary science, as I suspect that a variation on the Fischer-Tropsch synthesis method, mentioned in the article, might help us explain methane and abiotic oil. Seems like all the ingredients should be available in the earths crust, but what I thought even more interesting was that the US Navy had developed a method to get oil from seawater. If seawater was 'down below' in huge quantities, might there be another answer to oils origins? I'm out of my depth here, but I'm confident someone around here can join some dots, or not...
In 2009, the US Navy experimented with making jet fuel from seawater, using a variation of the Fischer–Tropsch process. To alleviate problems with global warming and potential oil shortages, Navy chemists tried to create fuel from seawater by splitting the molecules using electricity in order to extract the carbon dioxide. When combined with hydrogen using a cobalt-based catalyst this produces mostly methane gas, but by changing to an iron catalyst the process produced only 30 per cent methane with the rest being short-chain hydrocarbons.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer–Tropsch_process
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller

Anaconda
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread post by Anaconda » Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:48 pm

Hi starbiter:

In regards to the issues raised by Velikovsky in his book, let me say, I don't follow Velikovsky word for word and as I understand it, neither do the leaders of Electric Universe. Velikovsky is a jumping off point and his work is valuble for starting the discussion and has stood the test of time for being a pioneering voice.

My purpose here is not to discredit Velikovsky, rather, it's to demonstrate hydrocarbons are abiotic, and as the succeeding comments have shown, there is an 'electric' connection between hydrocarbons deep in the Earth and electromagnetic processes, indeed, it's my opinion that Abiotic Oil is formed through an electro-thermo-molecular bonding or chemical reaction process.

In regards to your comment:
The three examples I gave, Oil Shale, Bituminous Coal, and the oil under the Middle Eastern Sands, seem problematic for deep earth production. Not impossible.
With all due respect, all three items you mention are not problematic as expressions of abiotic hydrocarbon production.

Let's start with the "oil under the Middle Eastern Sands".

I won't rehash what I've already provided in response to your objection, but I will note there are basement (bedrock)tectonics that are associated with Ghawar, the largest oil field in the world, where fissures and cracks have been "reactivated" over time.

And, while the immediate proceeding linked documents didn't make an explicit reference to Abiotic Oil in association with Ghawar (although, they did describe the basement tectonics), the following two links do specifically state Abiotic Oil is the source for the Ghawar oil field in Saudi Arabia:

The Offshore magazine article: MIDDLE EAST GEOLOGY Why the Middle East fields may produce oil forever published Published: April 1, 1995:
The location and orientation of hydrocarbon fields appear to be controlled by and related to subduction and rifting activities. The formation of hydrocarbons are due to the chemical processes which take place, even today, within the subduction/rift zones, and deep into the basement... from the dissociation of carbonates (CaCO3 ), and the reduction of carbon dioxide (CO2 ) and water (H2O) that seeps into subduction zones, or deep into rifts and fractures.
* note, I disagree with the "subduction" zone hypothesis.

http://www.offshore-mag.com/index/artic ... rever.html

And, also, Stanley B. Keith in his presentation to the Houston Geological Society, "Cracks of the World: Global Strike-Slip Fault Systems and Giant Resource Accumulations", states Ghawar is Abiotic Oil:
For example, petroleum resources in the largest hydrothermal mineral deposit [Abiotic Oil] in the world, the Ghawar field of Saudi Arabia (Cantrell et al., 2002), may be related to deposition of‚ regional-scale hydrothermal dolomites in a north-northeast-trending dextral slip zone that is 175 miles long and 30 miles wide. This zone is but one element of the previously mentioned north-south segments in the global fracture system.
http://www.hgs.org/en/art/?34
Biographical Sketch

Stanley B. Keith has over 30 years of successful exploration experience in minerals and energy. Upon earning BS and MS degrees in geology from the University of Arizona, he became a field and research geologist focused on mineralogy, geologic mapping, stratigraphy, tectonics, and isotopic age dating. At Kennecott and the Arizona Geological Survey in the mid-1970s he recognized an empirical relationship between mineral deposits and magma series. He co-founded MagmaChem Exploration in 1983 for mineral exploration, working on numerous exploration and research projects for both mineral and energy exploration companies. Currently he is a founding researcher with Sonoita Geoscience Research, an industry-supported consortium that applies hydrothermal and economic geological theory and techniques to petroleum exploration.
Note at the bottom of the biographical sketch it states Keith is "founding researcher with Sonoita Geoscience Research, an industry-supported consortium that applies hydrothermal and economic geological theory and techniques to petroleum exploration." The oil industry supports Abiotic Oil research -- not something the oil industry wants the general public to know about, but there it is.

In the proceeding comments there are several abstracts that Keith has authored and an Offshore magazine article that documents that the oil industry is now mapping the basement (bedrock) in the Gulf of Mexico for rifts, cracks, fissures, and crustal thickness, just as advised by Keith in the "Cracks of the World" presentation to the Houston Geological Society from which the above quote about Ghawar is taken.

In regards to oil shale and bituminous coal, these can also be demonstrated to be abiotic in origin, although neither is my principle concern -- abiotic formation of liquid oil is my principle concern -- However in future comments I will take up those items for discussion.

User avatar
starbiter
Posts: 1445
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:11 am
Location: Antelope CA
Contact:

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread post by starbiter » Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:34 pm

Hello Anaconda: I never suggested word for word acceptance of Dr. V. Skepticism is healthy.


This comment from your post got my attention.

[...]
Stanley B. Keith writes:
For example, petroleum resources in the largest hydrothermal mineral deposit [Abiotic Oil] in the world, the Ghawar field of Saudi Arabia (Cantrell et al., 2002), may be related to deposition of‚ regional-scale hydrothermal dolomites in a north-northeast-trending dextral slip zone that is 175 miles long and 30 miles wide. This zone is but one element of the previously mentioned north-south segments in the global fracture system.

Please notice the dolomite reference above. The reference to "hydrothermal dolomite" is interesting. The link below discusses the problem with hydrothermal dolomite. The link below could be bull shit, but it seems reasonable.


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_o ... 182d55f23f

On the other hand, Dolomite, and stuff similar to what comes out of exhaust pipes [hydrocarbons] is contained in the coma of comets, according to NASA. This fits Worlds in Collision like a glove.

Next we have Oil Sands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sands

A large portion of the oil on the planet is inside of sand deposits. This works with comet oil during an Earth Venus encounter.

I'm very comfortable with Abiotic Oil. Your arguments are compelling. What is your problem with comet oil?

I don't think we can expect an "oil expert" to come out and suggest that some oil deposits are the result of an encounter between Venus and Earth. That's not in the cards. So they will explain it in some other way. Any other way.

Fan of Abiotic Oil, michael
I Ching #49 The Image
Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

www.EU-geology.com

http://www.michaelsteinbacher.com

User avatar
starbiter
Posts: 1445
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:11 am
Location: Antelope CA
Contact:

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread post by starbiter » Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:19 pm

Hello again Anaconda: Concerning your comment on the acceptance of Worlds in Collision by the EU insiders, i think you have it wrong. I've spoken with many insiders. The majority i have spoken with are comfortable with the observations in "Worlds in Collision". The problem arises with "Ages in Chaos", "Peoples of the Sea" and "Ramses II and his Time. To reject the rest of his work because of problems with the chronology might be a mistake. The chronology issues will never be resolved. The chronology would not effect oil from a comet, or dune formation for that matter.

It's important to remember that i went looking for EU effects in the desert. After a year of observation and thought, i re-read WiC and the rocks fit the stories to a T. The dolomite is an example. What are the odds of finding a mineral in the coma of comets that doesn't have an accepted means of production on Earth. Problems like dolomite become opportunities. Then throw in massive amounts of oil with the dolomite. I couldn't make this stuff up.

This is the article about dolomite i refer to. plus one.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg1 ... tml?page=1

http://www.scitopics.com/Sedimentary_do ... oblem.html


Sorry for thread digression, but you asked.

michael
I Ching #49 The Image
Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

www.EU-geology.com

http://www.michaelsteinbacher.com

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests