webolife:
webolife wrote:
Well, what do ya know????? I'm out of arguments.
The diamond-buckyball-meteoritic hydrocarbon connection kinda pushed me over, I think.
I still hold out for the possibility that a source of CaCO3 may be biotic, as fossil reef... let's make that a question.
I stick with my coal view for now...
I appreciate your reconderation of the evidence. It takes objective, scientific discipline to reconsider an opinion, particularly of a firmly held view.
Let's further explore the meteorite evidence:
Meteorites that contain hydrocarbons are also called carbonaceous chondrites:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonaceous_chondrite
The hydrocarbons contained in these meteorites consist of aliphatic and aromatic hydrocarbons (distinctions based on molecular structure).
These meteorites also contain fullerines ("buckyballs") and, further, of interest, the minerals olivine and serpentintite.
They [carbonaceous condrites] are composed mainly of silicates, oxides and sulfides, while the minerals olivine and serpentinite are characteristic.
The fact these meteorites contain olivine and serpentinite is important.
Why?
Because olivine and serpentinite have been identified as base materials for the formation of petroleum:
http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/docum ... /keith.htm
Peridotites, Serpentinization, and Hydrocarbons
Stanley B. Keith and Monte M. Swan
MagmaChem, L.L.C, Sonoita, AZ
Serpentinization of peridotites by oceanic or metamorphic sourced brines under strongly reduced conditions and temperatures of 200-500 C produces hydrocarbon-rich, chloride and/or bicarbonate metal-bearing brines. Serpentinization is common on the ocean floor along fracture zones (Lost City), beneath conventional petroleum in rifts due to sedimentary burial (Gulf of Mexico) or thrust loading (Roan Trough), and at the top of flat subducting oceanic crust (Eocene beneath UT, CO, WY). Peridotites exhibit high-gravity, low-magnetic signatures. Serpentinized peridotites exhibit high-magnetic, low-gravity signatures. Volume expansion during serpentinization of up to 8X causes diapiric doming and induces expulsion of hydrocarbon-stable brines. There are 2 major types of peridotites: 1) magnesian dunitic peridotite with low V/Ni, high Au-Mg-Cu-Cr-Na/K, up to1400 ppm C (lithosphere source 51-130 km), 2) quartz alkalic aluminum-spinel peridotite with high V/Ni, high S-Mo-Ti-Al-Mn-Fe-U-K/Na up to 800 ppm C (athenosphere source 360-420 km). If hydrogen-stable (mainly thermogenic methane) peridotite-sourced brines rise into shelf carbonate sequence, they may form magnesian or quartz alkalic hydrothermal dolomite (HTD) and thermogenic gas. If the brines breech the hydrosphere they may produce "white smokers" (tuffa vent mounds/pinnacle reefs) along faults and enrich shales with exhalative metal and hydrocarbon. Petroleum condensate typically forms in reservoirs between the HTD zone and seep sites at the top of the lithosphere. Type I kerogen in black shale vents from Mg peridotite-sourced brines whereas Type II kerogen in black shale vents from quartz alkalic peridotite-sourced brines. Correspondingly hydrocarbon chemistry divides oil and gas into 2 major types: 1) magnesian sweet, low-sulfur paraffinic-naphtheric, 2) quartz alkalic sour, high-sulfur aromatic asphaltic. Geochemical markers that tie oil and gas to specific peridotite hydrothermal sources include nano-particle native metals and diamonds, and V-Ni porphyrins.
The above abstract is important because it explains the chemical process of hydrocarbon formation, even providing an abiotic explanation for the two types of kerogen and for low sulphur ("sweet" oil) and high sulphur ("sour" oil) petroleum. And, also identifies olivine and serpentintite as being central actors in the hydrocarbon formation process -- as peridotite contains olivine:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peridotite
A peridotite is a dense, coarse-grained igneous rock, consisting mostly of the minerals olivine and pyroxene. Peridotite is ultramafic, as the rock contains less than 45% silica. It is high in magnesium, reflecting the high proportions of magnesium-rich olivine, with appreciable iron. Peridotite is derived from the Earth's mantle, either as solid blocks and fragments, or as crystals accumulated from magmas that formed in the mantle.
And, the mineral olivine is constituted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivine
The mineral olivine (when gem-quality also called peridot) is a magnesium iron silicate with the formula (Mg,Fe)2SiO4. It is one of the most common minerals on Earth, and has also been identified in meteorites and on the Moon, Mars, and comet Wild 2.
And the following passage explains why serpentintite is important as it provides hydrogen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpentinite
Serpentinite is a rock composed of one or more serpentine group minerals. Minerals in this group are formed by serpentinization, a hydration and metamorphic transformation of ultramafic rock from the Earth's mantle. The alteration is particularly important at the sea floor at tectonic plate boundaries.
Notice that each of the above minerals are identified as coming from the mantle with serpentinite found at tectonic plate boundaries ("cracks of the world").
As the "Peridotites, Serpentinization, and Hydrocarbons", abstract states, dolomite acts as a feedstock and potentially as a catalyst for the hydrogen & carbon chemical affinity and electro-thermal molecular bonding.
And, there is no need to invoke "fossil reefs" as dolomite has carbon as part of its molecular composition:
http://www.theimage.com/mineral/dolomite/index.htm
Name: Dolomite; Class: Carbonates; Chemistry: CaMg(CO3)2 Calcium Magnesium Carbonate
Dolomite has also been identified as a mantle mineral:
Envronment: sedimentary rocks, metamorphic rocks, in hypothermal veins, and hydrothermal replacements
Note: It's questionable as to whether dolomite is a sedimentary mineral, as no active deposition has ever been observed & measured by geophysicists.
Dolomite is found in association with 80% of hydrocarbon deposits in North America.
Also, carbonates have been observed & measured to volcanically erupt at the Earth's surface:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 133823.htm
Why Is The Earth’s Mantle Conductive? ScienceDaily (Dec. 4, 2008) — Researchers from INSU-CNRS, working with chemists at a CNRS research unit, have explained that the high conductivity of the Earth’s upper mantle is due to molten carbonates. They demonstrated the very high conductivity of this form of carbon. Appearing in the 28 November issue of Science, their work has revealed the high carbon content of the interior of the upper mantle. This composition can be directly linked to the quantity of carbon dioxide produced by 80% of volcanoes.
Geologists have long claimed that significant amounts of carbon have been present in the Earth’s mantle for thousands of years. Up until now, there was very little direct proof of this hypothesis, and samples from the surface of the mantle contained only very small quantities of carbon. Also, for the last thirty years, scientists have been unable to explain the conductivity of the mantle, which is crossed by natural electrical currents at depths of 70 to 350 km, even though olivine, one of the main mineral components of the upper mantle, is completely isolating.
To explain these phenomena, researchers from the Institut des Sciences de la Terre d'Orléans (ISTO, CNRS / Université de Tours / Université d'Orléans) looked into liquid carbonates, one of the most stable forms of carbon within the mantle, along with graphite and diamond. The Masai volcano is Tanzania is the only place in the world where these carbonates can be observed. Elsewhere, the carbonates are dissolved in basalts and emitted into the atmosphere in gaseous form, as CO2.
Based on lab measurements at CNRS’s CEMHTI, the researchers established the high conductivity of molten carbonates. Their conductivity is 1000 times higher than that of basalt, which was previously thought to be the only potential conductor in the mantle. Fabrice Gaillard and his team have shown that the conductivity of the Earth’s mantle is a result of the presence of small amounts of molten carbonates between chunks of solid rock.
The ScienceDaily article is well worth reading and worthy of extended quotes as it ties up not just hydrocarbon formation in terms of carbon requirements, but also discusses electrical conductivity of the mantle & crust which supplies the electrical energy discussed in this thread for hydrocarbon formation, and as posited by the Electric Universe paradigm.
Finally, it should be noted that "rare earth minerals" are found in association with hydrocarbons as the above "peridotite" abstract suggests and as this other Keith & Swan abstract discusses:
http://www.searchanddiscovery.com/docum ... /keith.htm
Geochemistry of hydrocarbons, experimental work, and mass-balance calculations have identified the fluids that produce HTD as hot, strongly-reduced, hydrocarbon-rich chloride and/or bicarbonate brines containing elements exotic to basins such as Mg, Fe, Ni, V, Se, Co, and Zn. Indeed, many oil field brines may represent the original hydrothermal carrier fluid for reservoir hydrocarbons.
The above abstract is, again, well worth reviewing as it ties together the previous discussion of the various chemical pathways and physical explanations for the formation of Abiotic Oil.
And here is an abstract that discusses "rare earth metals" in hydrocarbons and that these metals have been identified as "mantle" elements, rare in the crust, but more plentiful in the mantle:
http://www.searchanddiscovery.net/abstr ... ivanov.htm
New data have been obtained from 59 rare, rare-earth and other elements in crude oil from the West Siberian and the giant Romashkino deposit of the Tatarstan Republic. ICP-MS analyses made with high resolution mass-spectrometer ELEMENT 2. The principle geochemical anomalies in these samples include limitedly low content of most elements, except for the elements V, Ni, Cr, Ca, Sr, Na, Rb, Cs. For the West-Siberian oils marked a PGE (platinoid) presence in substantial quantities, especially of palladium.
As can be reviewed, hydrocarbon deposits are consistent with deep origin, as the above abstract reports oil having "rare earth" minerals.