Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

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Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread postby starbiter » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:28 am

sureshbansal342 wrote:Existence of fossil fuel theory is there because nobody has given serious intention in the formation of kerogen,bitumen and thus productive sedimentary source rocks . Earlier there was long discussion about true origin of hydrocarbons at AAPG blog and i asked them to prove the biogenic origin of kerogen and bitumen . they have not given any satisfactory reply . it seems to me current fossil fuel theory is standing in the air without legs . first portion of this theory is EMPTY . This was the longest discussion with 3290 comments . :D



http://www.eu-geology.com/?page_id=317 This is a good link.

Please stop using fossil fuel theory as a whipping boy. The theory sucks. Now let's move on.

I'm proposing catastrophic comet oil. Please do some reading.
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Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread postby sureshbansal342 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:24 am

starbiter wrote:
sureshbansal342 wrote:Existence of fossil fuel theory is there because nobody has given serious intention in the formation of kerogen,bitumen and thus productive sedimentary source rocks . Earlier there was long discussion about true origin of hydrocarbons at AAPG blog and i asked them to prove the biogenic origin of kerogen and bitumen . they have not given any satisfactory reply . it seems to me current fossil fuel theory is standing in the air without legs . first portion of this theory is EMPTY . This was the longest discussion with 3290 comments . :D



http://www.eu-geology.com/?page_id=317 This is a good link.

Please stop using fossil fuel theory as a whipping boy. The theory sucks. Now let's move on.

I'm proposing catastrophic comet oil. Please do some reading.
Why not from deep origin of earth or interior ??
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Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread postby sureshbansal342 » Fri Jul 17, 2015 5:35 am

starbiter wrote:
sureshbansal342 wrote:Existence of fossil fuel theory is there because nobody has given serious intention in the formation of kerogen,bitumen and thus productive sedimentary source rocks . Earlier there was long discussion about true origin of hydrocarbons at AAPG blog and i asked them to prove the biogenic origin of kerogen and bitumen . they have not given any satisfactory reply . it seems to me current fossil fuel theory is standing in the air without legs . first portion of this theory is EMPTY . This was the longest discussion with 3290 comments . :D



http://www.eu-geology.com/?page_id=317 This is a good link.

Please stop using fossil fuel theory as a whipping boy. The theory sucks. Now let's move on.

I'm proposing catastrophic comet oil. Please do some reading.

Can you please explain the kerogen and bitumen please ,according to you ??
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Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread postby Chromium6 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:35 pm

Could Volcanoes Power the World?

By Angus ChenFeb. 7, 2014 , 6:45 PM

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/02/ ... ower-world
-----
Making clean, high-quality fuels from low-quality oil

New insights into a promising approach

(more at link.... https://mitei.mit.edu/news/making-clean ... uality-oil )
http://mitei.mit.edu/system/files/fuel%20figure%202.jpg
http://mitei.mit.edu/system/files/fuel%20figure%203.jpg


These results from the computational fluid dynamics model show flows and mixing as oil is injected from above into SCW flowing down a pipe from left to right. (The sidewalls of the circular pipe are not shown.) Interaction between the two fluids causes the formation of two vortices—coherent swirls that spin in opposite directions, mixing the streams together. Those vortices—shown here as gray tubes—are initially separate structures, but they soon break down as the streams mix. The colored cross sections show concentrations of oil and SCW at five locations along the pipe. Blue indicates regions of cold oil, while red indicates regions of hot SCW. The intermediate colors where the red and blue meet are mixed layers with varying concentrations of oil and SCW. As evident in the cross sections, the two oppositely spinning vortices drive the oil downward toward the center of the pipe and the water upward along the sidewalls. Moving down the pipe, the layers between the oil and SCW become more and more diffuse as the two streams mix together.


To further clarify the chemical reactions and how they are affected by temperature, pressure, and SCW concentration, the researchers combined their experimental work with theoretical modeling and analysis. Based on those studies, they identified the whole series of chemical reactions by which hexyl sulfide breaks down and releases its sulfur in the presence of SCW. According to that “reaction mechanism,” the sulfur-bearing hexyl sulfide is first broken apart, forming a smaller molecule with the sulfur atom in a very reactive form. In the absence of water, that highly reactive sulfur-bearing molecule would join with others like itself to form a long chain and eventually become coke. But in the presence of water, it reacts with the water, and the products ultimately include lighter hydrocarbons that are readily converted into valuable light fuels. The sulfur combines with hydrogen atoms to form hydrogen sulfide, a gas that can easily be removed and dealt with using existing technology.

Green notes that some of those reactions came as a surprise. “People didn’t expect them,” he says. “But we were able to discover that they were occurring and how fast they proceed and how much energy is needed to start them.” By knowing those “energy barriers,” the researchers can determine the reaction rates under different operating conditions—critical information for the overall model of the process.

Those results define—for the first time—the key roles played by water in the SCW system. “We confirmed that the hydrogen atoms needed to convert the sulfur to hydrogen sulfide can be provided by water rather than by hydrogen gas, as in the conventional process,” says Green. “And our empirical data show that the new SCW method does make less coke than the conventional process, for reasons that we’re now trying to clarify.”
Mixing without stirring

The results described thus far elucidate reactions and reaction rates under different conditions. Knowing what those conditions are inside a practical reactor is a parallel challenge. When oil is injected into flowing SCW, interactions between the two flows determine how mixing and heating proceed, first at the macroscale and then down to the microscale at which chemical reactions occur. The trick is to encourage and control optimal mixing. Using a stirring device is impractical, given the extreme supercritical conditions. So the researchers must generate such mixing naturally. “We need to know what drives the speed and patterns of mixing so we can select equipment designs and operating conditions that will either support key features of mixing for a long time or let them decay faster,” says Ghoniem.

To understand the details of flows and mixing, the researchers are using three-dimensional computational fluid dynamics (CFD), a method of simulating fluid flows within a well-defined region. Such modeling involves equations that describe the flow, mixing, and energy transfer between streams of fluids. But with supercritical fluids, key parameters such as viscosity and density are in ranges not seen under normal (non-supercritical) conditions. Nevertheless, the researchers were able to use powerful computers to accurately solve their CFD model, accounting for the complex changes that occur as fluids move from normal to supercritical conditions. To their surprise, they found that supercritical flows do indeed behave differently. For example, they become turbulent earlier than do comparable flows under normal conditions.

In one practical implementation of their model, they simulated mixing between SCW and oil near a “tee” junction consisting of a horizontal pipe with a smaller pipe coming into it from the top. SCW flows through the horizontal pipe, and cold oil—here a sample hydrocarbon—is injected into it through a vertical pipe. The figure below shows how the SCW and oil mix as they flow down the pipe from left to right. (The walls of the circular pipe are not shown.) Initial interaction between the two streams causes the formation of two coherent swirls called vortices—rotating structures in the fluids shown in the figure as gray tubes. At first, the vortices are separate swirls that spin in opposite directions, mixing the oil and SCW together. Moving along the pipe, the vortices break down, and mixing rates decay.

The colored circles in the figure show mixing between the two fluids at five cross sections located along the pipe. Blue regions are rich in cold oil; red regions are rich in hot SCW; and regions shown in intermediate colors have varying concentrations of the two fluids. The oil enters the cross section at the top and water at the bottom. As the spinning vortices form, the oil is driven downward near the center of the pipe, and the water is driven upward along the walls. In the first cross section, the interface layer between the oil and SWC is thin and sharp. In subsequent cross sections, that layer expands and diffuses, showing the extent of the mixing.

The researchers conclude that most of the fluid mixing and associated heat transfer is due to the swirling action of the vortices. However, they note that the mixing rate and heating rate differ—and that both influence the chemistry that occurs in regions where the fluids are mixed. Given design and operating details—the kind of oil; pressures, speeds, and temperatures of the incoming flows; shape and size of the pipes; and so on—the CFD simulation can predict “how this natural mixing process will progress and how temperatures will change at different locations over time,” says Ghoniem.

Continuing research

The researchers are continuing to generate new knowledge that will help SCW processing become an economically viable commercial option. For example, they are clarifying the reactions whereby carbon-carbon bonds are broken in the heaviest fractions, including asphalt. They are quantifying the different rates at which various oils will diffuse and mix in SCW—an effect first discovered in their modeling analyses. They are taking a closer look at inexpensive catalysts that can help encourage the breakdown of large hydrocarbons and are stable enough to be regenerated and reused. And they are exploring the possibility of linking SCW processing with other environmentally friendly desulfurization and upgrading technologies to create a combined system that will make it practical to continue producing high-value fuels from all kinds of oil for decades to come.

This research was supported by Saudi Aramco, a Founding Member of the MIT Energy Initiative. Further information can be found in:

Y. Kida, C.A. Class, A.J. Concepcion, M.T. Timko, and W.H. Green. “Combining experiment and theory to elucidate the role of supercritical water in sulfide decomposition.” Physical Chemistry Chemical Physics, vol. 16, no. 20, pp. 9220–9228, 2014.

A. Raghavan and A.F. Ghoniem. “Simulation of supercritical water-hydrocarbon mixing in a cylindrical tee at intermediate Reynolds number: Formulation, numerical method and laminar mixing.” The Journal of Supercritical Fluids, vol. 92, pp. 31–46, 2014.

A. Raghavan and A.F. Ghoniem. “Simulation of supercritical water-hydrocarbon mixing in a cylindrical tee at intermediate Reynolds number: Impact of temperature difference between streams.” The Journal of Supercritical Fluids, vol. 95, pp. 325–338, 2014.

M.T. Timko, A.G. Ghoniem, and W.H. Green. “Upgrading and desulfurization of heavy oils by supercritical water. The Journal of Supercritical Fluids, vol. 96, pp. 114–123, 2015.
On the Windhexe: ''An engineer could not have invented this,'' Winsness says. ''As an engineer, you don't try anything that's theoretically impossible.''
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Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread postby sureshbansal342 » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:26 pm

Earlier there was wrong discussion between the followers of both theories biotic v/s abiotic that whether the commercial interesting hydrocarbons has been expelled from sedimentary source rocks or not ,while the correct discussion should be whether these expelled hydrocarbons from sedimentary source rocks are biotic or abiotic in origin . actually current fossil fuel theory is a big mistake only . Expulsion of hydrocarbons from sedimentary source rocks do not scientifically prove the biogenic origin of petroleum bcz these productive sedimentary source rocks essentially has been formed with the involvement of abiotic hydrocarbons ,once hugely present on the surface of the earth .
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Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread postby sureshbansal342 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:27 am

One should create a whatsapp group of followers of abiotic theory .
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Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread postby Chromium6 » Mon May 30, 2016 8:20 pm

I bet the offshore finds in the "Arctic circle" are related to the number of undersea volcanoes in the area:
http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/41663.pdf
---
Volcanic Rock-Hosted Natural Hydrocarbon Resources: A Review
Jiaqi Liu1, Pujun Wang1, Yan Zhang1, Weihua Bian1, Yulong Huang1, Huafeng Tang1 and Xiaoyu Chen2

[1] College of Earth Sciences, Jilin University, Changchun, China, Institute of Geology and Geophysics, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Beijing, China

[2] Institute of Geology and Geophysics, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Beijing, China
1. Introduction

Evolution and the hydrocarbon bearing capacity of basins are closely related to volcanic activity, and not only source rock maturity, but also hydrocarbon trapping are influenced by volcanism within a basin. Volcanic rocks act as important basin filling material in different types of basins, for instance, rift basins, epicontinental basins, basins in a trench-arc system, back-arc foreland basins, etc. [1]. Volcanic accumulation of oil and gas is a new global field of hydrocarbon exploration and has been proved in more than 300 basins in 20 countries and regions [2]. The Cenozoic volcanic rocks, especially Jurassic, Cretaceous and Tertiary, contribute about 70% of the total preservation globally [3-7].

Derivations of hydrocarbon in volcanic accumulation have organic as well as inorganic sources [8-10]. Volcanic rocks could act as a reservoir or cover within hydrocarbon traps, whose thermal effects could accelerate the maturity of source rocks or destroy preserved hydrocarbon [11-13]. Primary hydrocarbon accumulations could be reformed or destroyed during tectonic and volcanic processes, the preserved hydrocarbon remobilized to other traps or the ground surface [14]. Effective reservoirs
....
2. Volcanism impacts on the formation of oil and gas accumulation
2.1. Volcanic activity provides a catalyst for the evolution of organic matter

During the transformation from organic matter to hydrocarbon, the role of volcanic is mainly to supply a catalyst and thermal energy. Volcanogenic zeolite and olivine can be a catalyst in turning organic matter into hydrocarbon [29]. Hydrothermal liquid contains many transition metals, such as Ni, Co, Cu, Mn, Zn, Ti, V etc. [30]. The transition metals are catalysts for organic matter thermal degradation [31]. Studies have shown that some volcanic minerals undergo catalysis and hydrogenation which can produce more oil and gas source rocks at lower temperature and pressure. Jin [32] performed a catalysis and hydrogenation experiment on volcanic minerals and source rocks. He used zeolite as a catalyst collected from volcanic rocks, olivine as intermediates of accelerating hydrogen generation and type II and type III organic matter as source rocks. The experimental results show that the hydrogen production rate increased after olivine addition, while when adding zeolite and olivine hydrogen, the production rate still improved. This is due to olivine alteration occuring and reacting with water to produce hydrogen in the organic matter into hydrocarbon conversion process. The reaction is as follows:

6( Mg1.5Fe0.5) SiO4+ 13H2O→3Mg3SiO2O5(OH)4+ Fe3O4+ 7H2

The results show that after the source rocks interact with zeolite and olivine, the production rate of methane improved 2 to 3 times, which is related to the hydrogen increasing. The results also show that the better the organic matter or kerogen types, the higher the production rate of hydrogen and

....

3. Biogenic and abiogenic hydrocarbon related to volcanic reservoirs
3.1. Organic hydrocarbon generation

The origin of oil and gas has been a long debated theoretical issue. There are two opposing points of view: 1) the organic origin theory and 2) the inorganic origin theory. Organic origin theory considers oil and gas to come from biological processes. Inorganic origin theory explains the origin of oil and gas through inorganic synthesis and mantle degassing. The earliest organic origin theory was proposed by Lomonosov in 1763 [53]. He thought that fertile substances underground, such as oil shale, carbon, asphalt, petroleum and amber, originated in plants. The hydrocarbon formation theory of kerogen thermal degradation proposed by Tissot and Welte [54] and Hunt [55] are the representatives of the organic hydrocarbon generation theory.

The hydrocarbon formation theory of kerogen thermal degradation is based on the diagenesis of organic matter resulting from biopolymers into geopolymers, then kerogen. Kerogen is the main precursor material of oil compounds during the process of hydrocarbon generation, when thermal degradation plays a major role [54]. For sufficient hydrocarbon class and commercial oil gathering, sedimentary rocks must experience the hydrocarbon generation and temperature threshold. Mass hydrocarbons are formed at temperatures from 60 to 150°C by heated organic matter [55]. According to this theoretical model, the sedimentary organic matter maturity, especially for kerogen, becomes the key factor for evaluating hydrocarbon potential. When the threshold burial depth reaches, kerogen will be changed from immature to mature. Oil and gas generates by series of thermal degradation.

http://www.intechopen.com/books/updates ... s-a-review
On the Windhexe: ''An engineer could not have invented this,'' Winsness says. ''As an engineer, you don't try anything that's theoretically impossible.''
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Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread postby sureshbansal342 » Mon May 30, 2016 11:37 pm

Chromium6 wrote:I bet the offshore finds in the "Arctic circle" are related to the number of undersea volcanoes in the area:
http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs-wm/41663.pdf
---
Volcanic Rock-Hosted Natural Hydrocarbon Resources: A Review
Jiaqi Liu1, Pujun Wang1, Yan Zhang1, Weihua Bian1, Yulong Huang1, Huafeng Tang1 and Xiaoyu Chen2

[1] College of Earth Sciences, Jilin University, Changchun, China, Institute of Geology and Geophysics, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Beijing, China

[2] Institute of Geology and Geophysics, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Beijing, China
1. Introduction

Evolution and the hydrocarbon bearing capacity of basins are closely related to volcanic activity, and not only source rock maturity, but also hydrocarbon trapping are influenced by volcanism within a basin. Volcanic rocks act as important basin filling material in different types of basins, for instance, rift basins, epicontinental basins, basins in a trench-arc system, back-arc foreland basins, etc. [1]. Volcanic accumulation of oil and gas is a new global field of hydrocarbon exploration and has been proved in more than 300 basins in 20 countries and regions [2]. The Cenozoic volcanic rocks, especially Jurassic, Cretaceous and Tertiary, contribute about 70% of the total preservation globally [3-7].

Derivations of hydrocarbon in volcanic accumulation have organic as well as inorganic sources [8-10]. Volcanic rocks could act as a reservoir or cover within hydrocarbon traps, whose thermal effects could accelerate the maturity of source rocks or destroy preserved hydrocarbon [11-13]. Primary hydrocarbon accumulations could be reformed or destroyed during tectonic and volcanic processes, the preserved hydrocarbon remobilized to other traps or the ground surface [14]. Effective reservoirs
....
2. Volcanism impacts on the formation of oil and gas accumulation
2.1. Volcanic activity provides a catalyst for the evolution of organic matter

During the transformation from organic matter to hydrocarbon, the role of volcanic is mainly to supply a catalyst and thermal energy. Volcanogenic zeolite and olivine can be a catalyst in turning organic matter into hydrocarbon [29]. Hydrothermal liquid contains many transition metals, such as Ni, Co, Cu, Mn, Zn, Ti, V etc. [30]. The transition metals are catalysts for organic matter thermal degradation [31]. Studies have shown that some volcanic minerals undergo catalysis and hydrogenation which can produce more oil and gas source rocks at lower temperature and pressure. Jin [32] performed a catalysis and hydrogenation experiment on volcanic minerals and source rocks. He used zeolite as a catalyst collected from volcanic rocks, olivine as intermediates of accelerating hydrogen generation and type II and type III organic matter as source rocks. The experimental results show that the hydrogen production rate increased after olivine addition, while when adding zeolite and olivine hydrogen, the production rate still improved. This is due to olivine alteration occuring and reacting with water to produce hydrogen in the organic matter into hydrocarbon conversion process. The reaction is as follows:

6( Mg1.5Fe0.5) SiO4+ 13H2O→3Mg3SiO2O5(OH)4+ Fe3O4+ 7H2

The results show that after the source rocks interact with zeolite and olivine, the production rate of methane improved 2 to 3 times, which is related to the hydrogen increasing. The results also show that the better the organic matter or kerogen types, the higher the production rate of hydrogen and

....

3. Biogenic and abiogenic hydrocarbon related to volcanic reservoirs
3.1. Organic hydrocarbon generation

The origin of oil and gas has been a long debated theoretical issue. There are two opposing points of view: 1) the organic origin theory and 2) the inorganic origin theory. Organic origin theory considers oil and gas to come from biological processes. Inorganic origin theory explains the origin of oil and gas through inorganic synthesis and mantle degassing. The earliest organic origin theory was proposed by Lomonosov in 1763 [53]. He thought that fertile substances underground, such as oil shale, carbon, asphalt, petroleum and amber, originated in plants. The hydrocarbon formation theory of kerogen thermal degradation proposed by Tissot and Welte [54] and Hunt [55] are the representatives of the organic hydrocarbon generation theory.

The hydrocarbon formation theory of kerogen thermal degradation is based on the diagenesis of organic matter resulting from biopolymers into geopolymers, then kerogen. Kerogen is the main precursor material of oil compounds during the process of hydrocarbon generation, when thermal degradation plays a major role [54]. For sufficient hydrocarbon class and commercial oil gathering, sedimentary rocks must experience the hydrocarbon generation and temperature threshold. Mass hydrocarbons are formed at temperatures from 60 to 150°C by heated organic matter [55]. According to this theoretical model, the sedimentary organic matter maturity, especially for kerogen, becomes the key factor for evaluating hydrocarbon potential. When the threshold burial depth reaches, kerogen will be changed from immature to mature. Oil and gas generates by series of thermal degradation.

http://www.intechopen.com/books/updates ... s-a-review
Actually Current fossil fuel theory is a BIG MISTAKE of modern science and major obstacle to solve other mysteries . Bio mass is not the dominant source of global commercial oil and gas and just has contaminated or injected minute qty of fossil fuel to confuse us .
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Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread postby BobDodds » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:05 am

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Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread postby Chromium6 » Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:36 pm

News on SynGas:
---
(More at link below)

1,000-fold improved chemistry leads to 'artificial leaf' that makes syngas

Date:July 28, 2016Source:University of Illinois at ChicagoSummary:Researchers have engineered a potentially game-changing solar cell that cheaply and efficiently converts atmospheric carbon dioxide directly into usable hydrocarbon fuel, using only sunlight for energy.

Researchers at the University of Illinois at Chicago have engineered a potentially game-changing solar cell that cheaply and efficiently converts atmospheric carbon dioxide directly into usable hydrocarbon fuel, using only sunlight for energy.

The finding is reported in the July 29 issue of Science and was funded by the National Science Foundation and the U.S. Department of Energy. A provisional patent application has been filed.

Unlike conventional solar cells, which convert sunlight into electricity that must be stored in heavy batteries, the new device essentially does the work of plants, converting atmospheric carbon dioxide into fuel, solving two crucial problems at once. A solar farm of such "artificial leaves" could remove significant amounts of carbon from the atmosphere and produce energy-dense fuel efficiently.

"The new solar cell is not photovoltaic -- it's photosynthetic," says Amin Salehi-Khojin, assistant professor of mechanical and industrial engineering at UIC and senior author on the study.

"Instead of producing energy in an unsustainable one-way route from fossil fuels to greenhouse gas, we can now reverse the process and recycle atmospheric carbon into fuel using sunlight," he said.

While plants produce fuel in the form of sugar, the artificial leaf delivers syngas, or synthesis gas, a mixture of hydrogen gas and carbon monoxide. Syngas can be burned directly, or converted into diesel or other hydrocarbon fuels.

The ability to turn CO2 into fuel at a cost comparable to a gallon of gasoline would render fossil fuels obsolete.

Chemical reactions that convert CO2 into burnable forms of carbon are called reduction reactions, the opposite of oxidation or combustion. Engineers have been exploring different catalysts to drive CO2 reduction, but so far such reactions have been inefficient and rely on expensive precious metals such as silver, Salehi-Khojin said.

"What we needed was a new family of chemicals with extraordinary properties," he said.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 142921.htm
On the Windhexe: ''An engineer could not have invented this,'' Winsness says. ''As an engineer, you don't try anything that's theoretically impossible.''
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Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:12 am

Just what we need: starve plants (and animals) of CO2 and replace it with deadly carbon monoxide.
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Hydrocarbons on Mars?

Unread postby moonkoon » Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:59 am

Interesting blog post here suggesting that there may be visual evidence for the presence of hydrocarbons on Mars, which, depending on one's view, could support an abiotic origin for hydrocarbons or the presence of vegetation on Mars at some time in the past.

Below is a cropped section of this photo which shows the feature that the blog's author, Martin Hovland suggests may be a hydrocarbon seep.

Image

The seep appears to originate from the base of a slump failure scarp on the Herbes Mensa salt dome that occupies the central portion of the Hebes Chasma which in its turn lies just to the north of the mega-feature, Valles Marineris. The full view also shows other extensive dark patches which may also be due to the presence of hydrocarbons.

Martin Hovland (et al.) who has previously been cited by Chromium6 on pg. 62 of this thread also has an interesting theory on the possible hydrothermal origin of salt (the mineral version is called halite) deposits. This contrasts with current ideas about their origin, i.e. that they are created by the evaporation of surface brines which are subsequently buried by other transported sediments or volcanic deposits. Hydrothermal activity is currently thought to be responsible for the active ocean floor vents known as 'black smokers' which produce metal rich sulphides and it is thought that previous hydrothermal activity produced the sulphide metal ore deposits that are the source of most non-ferrous metals.

If hydrothermal activity is indeed the source of the the halite and given the strong association of much hydrocarbon with salt, then from my unorthodox perspective :-), it doesn't require a great mental leap to imagine that natural hydrocarbons may also have a hydrothermal and therefore abiotic origin. There is plenty of carbonate...

P.S. Be sure to check out Martin's blog linked above, it has much more info and compelling graphics than this brief outline.
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Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread postby Chromium6 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:48 pm

Exploring vast 'submerged America,' marine scientists discover 500 bubbling methane vents
Portable observatories and new marine vehicles: The hinge of historic change in deep sea exploration


Date:
October 20, 2016
Source:
National Ocean Exploration Forum
Summary:
Five hundred vents newly discovered off the US West Coast, each bubbling methane from Earth's belly, top a long list of revelations about "submerged America" being celebrated by leading marine explorers. The discoveries double to about 1,000 the number of such vents now known to exist along the continental margins of the USA. This fizzing methane is a powerful greenhouse gas if it escapes into the atmosphere; a clean burning fuel if safely captured.


FULL STORY
This mysterious purple orb -- likened to a disco ball -- may prove to be a new-to-science ocean animal.
Credit: Ocean Exploration Trust

Five hundred vents newly discovered off the US West Coast, each bubbling methane from Earth's belly, top a long list of revelations about "submerged America" being celebrated by leading marine explorers meeting in New York.

"It appears that the entire coast off Washington, Oregon and California is a giant methane seep," says RMS Titanic discoverer Robert Ballard, who found the new-to-science vents on summer expeditions by his ship, Nautilus.

The discoveries double to about 1,000 the number of such vents now known to exist along the continental margins of the USA. This fizzing methane (video: http://bit.ly/2egtF7F) is a powerful greenhouse gas if it escapes into the atmosphere; a clean burning fuel if safely captured.

"This is an area ripe for discovery," says Dr. Nicole Raineault, Director of Science Operations with Dr. Ballard's Ocean Exploration Trust. "We do not know how many seeps exist, even in US waters, how long they have been active, how persistent they are, what activated them or how much methane, if any, makes it into the atmosphere."

Further research and measuring will help fill important knowledge gaps, including how hydrocarbons behave at depth underwater and within the geological structure of the ocean floor.

Expeditions this year include also NOAA's Deepwater Exploration of the Marianas Trench -- a 59-day voyage with 22 dives into the planet's deepest known canyons in the Pacific Ocean near Guam.

NOAA explorers added three new hydrothermal vents to the world's inventory and a new high-temperature "black smoker" vent field composed of chimneys up to 30 meters tall -- the height of a nine-story building.

Also revealed: a tiny spot volcano (the first ever discovered in US waters), a new mud volcano, thick gardens of deep-sea corals and sponges, a rare high-density community of basket stars and crinoids (a living fossil), and historic wreckage from World War II. (Photo, video log: http://bit.ly/2cTjp0a)

Bizarre purple animals

Scores of spectacular, rare and sometimes baffling unknown species encountered on this year's first-ever voyages to new deep ocean areas include several purple animals such as:

A bizarre purple "mud monster": the "acorn worm." Photo: http://bit.ly/2dytSnW, video: http://bit.ly/2d6FQ6a, credit: NOAA
Swimming purple sea cucumber, reminiscent of a flying Mary Poppins. Photo: http://bit.ly/2dQdURC, video: http://bit.ly/2d6FQ6a, credit: NOAA
A mysterious purple orb, likened by one scientist to a disco ball, that may prove to be new to science. Photo: http://bit.ly/2dBQDoC, video: http://bit.ly/2cXM5Ho, credit: Ocean Exploration Trust
A rare purple Vampire Squid, (Vampyroteuthis infernalis), a deep-sea creature nicknamed for its deep color and red eyes (not because it feeds on blood). Photo: http://bit.ly/2dlk2mo video: http://bit.ly/2ctAimv, credit: Ocean Exploration Trust
Stubby "googly-eyed" purple animal looking like a cross between an octopus and a squid. Photo: http://bit.ly/2d8UWHn, video: http://bit.ly/2cYoQ13 Credit: Ocean Exploration Trust

Beyond being spectacularly photogenic, such animals help scientists better understand the web of life that sustains all species, including humans.

As well, understanding how "extremophile" lifeforms survive in such conditions (piezophiles, for example, thrive in high pressure; pyschrophiles, aka cryophiles, live in water as cold as ?20 °C, as in pockets of very salty brine surrounded by sea ice), is usefully relevant to food and pharmaceutical preservation technologies, medical technology, nanotechnology and energy science.

Ocean exploration undergoing historic transformation

Dr. Ballard and about 100 other leading figures in marine science meet Oct. 20-21 to compare thoughts on the future of marine exploration at the 2016 National Ocean Exploration Forum, "Beyond the Ships: 2020-2025," hosted in New York by The Rockefeller University in partnership with Monmouth University. The Forum is also supported by the Monmouth-Rockefeller Marine Science and Policy Initiative, NOAA, the Schmidt Ocean Institute, and James A. Austin, Jr.

Ocean exploration has arrived at a historic hinge, Forum organizers say, with profound transformation underway thanks to new technologies, led by increasingly affordable "roboats" -- autonomous or remotely controlled vehicles that dive into the ocean or ply the surface laden with sensors collecting information from instruments suspended beneath them.

ROV SuBastian, for example, is a new eco-friendly 3,100 kg (6,500 pound) deep-sea research platform for the Schmidt Ocean Institute's R/V Falkor, equipped with ultra high-resolution 4K cameras, mechanical arms that move seven ways and can sample to depths of 4,500 meters (2.8 miles), with a lighting system equivalent to the lamps of 150 car high-beams. (SuBastian sea trials video: http://bit.ly/2dn17as; High-res photos, b-roll: http://bit.ly/2dMBeQs).

Says Wendy Schmidt, co-founder of Schmidt Ocean Institute: "With ROV SuBastian we will help make life on the ocean floor real to people who will never visit the sea, so they, too, can begin to appreciate the importance of ocean health and make the connection between life in the deep sea and life on land."

"You don't have to be a scientist at sea to recognize the importance of the marine environment, and we are only at the beginning of our understanding. We never anticipated discovering the world's deepest living fish, the ghostfish (video: http://bit.ly/2cNNvSo), back in 2014, and are excited about the life we will discover next."

ROV SuBastian will have that opportunity this December during its first science cruise, in the Mariana Back-Arc in the western Pacific. (Cruise details: http://bit.ly/2dXOMvA. All dives will be live-streamed on Schmidt Ocean Institute's YouTube page: http://bit.ly/2dB5Neg).

Contributing as well to the transformation: Modern communications and sampling techniques, including eDNA, big data analysis and other high-tech advances that automate and vastly accelerate the work, opening the way for experts and the public to reach, see, chart, sample and monitor formerly secret depths of the seas.

Building "curious" roboats

Innovations include portable observatories for underwater monitoring and a "curious exploration robot," programmed to focus on everything unfamiliar to its data bank brain (photo: http://bit.ly/2dXV9fz, video: http://bit.ly/2dq4eA3, credit WHOI).

According to innovator Yogesh Girdhar of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, in a recent test off the Panama coast, the suitcase-sized swimming robot discovered a startlingly enormous population of crabs.

Other engineers, meanwhile, are developing "game changing" unmanned undersea and surface vehicles tricked out with an array of sophisticated sensors to perform a suite of underwater tasks, enabled to run for months by recent improvements in battery technology. (See video, for example, of Boeing's 51-foot Echo Voyager: http://bit.ly/2crlznh).

Such "roboats" can be programmed to conduct deep sea exploration or searches using a lawn mower pattern, surfacing regularly to report data back to shore via satellite, or to patrol a coastal area, returning to port after one or two months to recharge and redeploy.

These technologies will enable today's generation to "explore more of Planet Earth than all previous generations combined," predicts Dr. Ballard, whose celebrated career will be recognized at the Forum with the Monmouth University Urban Coast Institute's Champion of the Ocean award.

The technologies will not only help discover and monitor new mineral and living resources, they could help secure interests vital to the world's economy or identify the best paths for communications cables that span the ocean floor -- the veins of the Internet.

Ships transitioning to multi-vessel research hives

Until recently, ocean exploration has involved ships operated like fishing vessels, dipping sensors and hauling up data.

Forum participants such as John Kreider of Oceaneering International envision such ships in future serving as hives from which flotillas and squadrons of autonomous underwater, surface and aerial vehicles are launched -- robots guided by experts on board or remotely, such as from a distant university campus via "telepresence," returning with images and data orders of magnitude larger than ever before.

Thanks to modern communication technologies, schoolchildren, their teachers and indeed any interested members of the public can, and do, now follow expeditions online in real time.

Among the many compelling interests and pursuits of marine scientists and historians in the public, private and military sectors:

The changing Arctic environment, including the impact on sea ice edge formation of waves on newly opened water, and by new intrusions of warm water from the neighboring Atlantic and Pacific oceans, which also disrupts Arctic Ocean water column stratification
The discovery of rare earth and other minerals, caches of methane and new oil deposits, and new species of marine plants and animals, some of which have already led to new pharmaceuticals with high expectations of many valuable discoveries to come
Better understanding the food chain -- monitoring the distribution and abundance of marine life, finding species new-to-science, and detecting invasive or endangered species.
eDNA (environmental DNA) techniques, a water sample can now be used to discern what species recently passed through, based on the DNA left behind in metabolic wastes, skin cells, and damaged tissues (the subject of a paper by NOAA-funded ocean explorer Shirley Pomponi. And, thanks to new acoustic techniques, marine biologists can also discern biodiversity levels on coral reefs just by listening (the subject of a paper prepared for the Forum by Jennifer L. Miksis-Olds of the University of New Hampshire and Bruce Martin, Dalhousie University, available at http://bit.ly/2dwUxzA)
Finding historic wrecks of aircraft and ships, such as the recent discovery 2,800 feet underwater of the WWII era aircraft carrier USS Independence (photo: http://bit.ly/2d4leYD), a Bikini Atoll nuclear test target last seen when it was scuttled off San Francisco's shores 65 years ago. Other major recent finds include the USS Conestoga, found at 200 feet depth near San Francisco, ending a 95-year military mystery about the fate of her 56-man crew; Sir John Franklin's ships Terror and Erebus, lost while searching for the Northwest Passage; whaling ships from the 1870s found crushed off the coast of Alaska; and the skeletons of 2,000 year old mariners in waters off Greece
Identifying the location and state of sunken nuclear materials and waste, and 20th century weaponry, including chemical nerve gas and large explosives disposed of post-war at sea. Scientists say that to this day explosions of discarded world war munitions off the coast of Europe cause occasional tremors -- some equal to a magnitude 2 earthquake on the Richter scale
Locating new ocean bottom formations, testing novel oceanographic devices, and characterizing sources of sound in a changing ocean. The result: a better chance of finding or hiding a submarine or avoiding a sea mine.

Says scientist James (Jamie) A. Austin, Jr. of the University of Texas, "the slow, time consuming and expensive way we've done ocean exploration forever -- one ship doing one task at a time -- is giving way to autonomous systems that net massive hauls of data, with advances in big data analysis enabling scientists to make sense of it rapidly."

Dr. Austin envisions installations on the seafloor -- measuring tremors or helping scientists estimate the rate at which Earth swallows carbon into its mantle through plate tectonics, for example -- with data delivered by a device periodically flying up and down to the surface.

Gurgle Earth

Simply mapping the ocean floor is an important goal. While satellites have fully charted the seafloor in low resolution, only 10% is mapped in detail.

At an estimated cost of $2.9 billion -- or about $9 per square kilometer ($23 per square mile) -- a "Gurgle Earth" map of the deep oceans could be completed at high resolution using swath like, multi-beam sonar.

The hazard of uncharted oceanic mountains, trenches, volcanoes and other features was dramatically underscored in 2005 when a nuclear attack submarine, the USS San Francisco, struck a seamount in the Pacific at high speed, killing one crew member and injuring 97.

Over 50% of US territory lies beneath the ocean surface and such mapping could also expand American territorial and resource claims.

With documentation of the continental shelf, America's Exclusive Economic Zone, 11.3 million square km in size today, could extend a further 2.2 million square km -- a 20% enlargement, representing an underwater area larger than Alaska. (See http://bit.ly/2cTU7lG).

World's foremost ocean discoveries

According to Dr. Ballard, key marine discoveries to date include:

In the Galapagos Rift, hydrothermal vents, "which may well explain the origin of life on Earth"
On the East Pacific Rise, other black smokers "which explained the chemistry of the world's oceans and their poly-metallic sulfide deposits of copper, lead, silver, and gold"
On the Mid-Atlantic Ridge, a Lost City of carbonate chimneys towering 60 meters, "which revealed the depth of seawater circulation into the earth"
Along the continental margins of the world massive methane seeps, "that were not included in our modelling of global change"
In the Black Sea, highly preserved wooden ships, "which showed that the deep sea is the largest museum on earth," and
Near Newfoundland, the RMS Titanic, "which created a massive interest in the history of the human race hidden beneath the sea."

(more at link)
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 103858.htm
On the Windhexe: ''An engineer could not have invented this,'' Winsness says. ''As an engineer, you don't try anything that's theoretically impossible.''
Chromium6
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:48 pm

Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread postby moonkoon » Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:58 pm

From the report posted by Chromium6,

"It appears that the entire coast off Washington, Oregon and California is a giant methane seep," ... a Lost City of carbonate chimneys towering 60 meters


They don't mention it in the article but the carbonate chimneys that were discovered are directly related to the methane seeps in that the methane is the actual source of the carbon in the carbonate.

The carbonate chimneys are probably what is known in the trade as Methane Derived Authigenic Carbonates or MDAC's for short. Authigenic is the term used to describe sediments that are generated in situ as opposed to being transported from elsewhere. The carbonate is precipitated when the methane reacts with the hydrothermal milieu which includes both chemical and metabolic/biological activity.

... The precipitation of authigenic carbonates at fluid seepage sites is a common phenomenon that can be triggered by the activity of a consortium of archaea and bacteria that oxidize methane close to the seafloor ... or that can occur due to chemical reactions (i.e. without microbial mediation). Such carbonate deposits reveal different morphologies depending on combined internal (seepage-related) and external (setting-related) factors.
http://folk.uio.no/hensven/Mazzini_etal_MarGeol_06.pdf

Being associated with methane, the carbonate features are widely distributed and occur in a variety of forms. The carbonates can be formed in both shallow and deep water and can manifest as both surface (chimneys) and subsurface features such as nodules or column/cone shaped features which go by the rather unwieldy name of Positive High Amplitude Anomalies (PHAA's), a term which refers to their seismic characteristics, they are more consolidated than the background sludge.

... The carbonate morphologies include thin (∼1 cm) platy carbonate crusts, blocky and massive carbonate ridges up to several metres in size, and irregularly shaped carbonate deposits consisting of interconnected tubular and uneven intervals displaying high porosity. ...
http://folk.uio.no/hensven/Mazzini_etal_MarGeol_06.pdf

This carbonate formation is the opposite of the process needed to convert carbonate to methane or other hydrocarbon. Methane to carbonate is an oxidation reaction whereas converting carbonate to methane is a reduction or de-oxidation reaction. In chemical lingo it is called a redox reaction. Depending on energy and catalytic conditions, and ability to remove product, the reaction can be pushed in the opposite direction.

So there may be both chemical and/or biological pathways available via hydrothermal/catalytic (with generous amounts of finely divided metals in the vicinity the potential for catalytic activity is good) or biological activity that convert carbonate to methane/hydrocarbon. And although the presence of hydrocarbon is attributed to "cooking" of organic matter, the possibility that this reverse reaction may occur can't in my opinion be summarily dismissed at present.

... The geologists also noticed that their [carbonate] rock samples smelled like diesel. They hypothesize that hot hydrothermal fluids migrating upward through the thick sediments of the Pescadero Basin 'cook' organic matter in the sediment, converting it into petroleum-like hydrocarbons -- a process that has been observed at several other vents in the Pacific. Hydrocarbons may provide nutrition for the unusual microbes that thrive at these vents. ...
http://www.mbari.org/mbari-researchers- ... fic-ocean/

The possibility of direct conversion of methane to heavier molecular weight hydrocarbons also needs to be considered. Bitumen etc. deposits are sometimes observed in the carbonate tubes.

This says nothing about the origin of the carbon in the geological column or whether the carbon in source rocks is a product of methane or vice versa, but it suggests to me at least that the idea of surface derived and subsequent burial of biological carbon needs to be kept under review.

It could also be that the methane (and its carbon component) is the product of some as yet unknown process operating in the upper portion of the mantle (perhaps the region which has access to water). Also one can't rule out possibility that the methane generation process includes some type of mantle metabolic activity as some lifeforms may be present even in high temperature/pressure environments.

P.S. I will discuss the possibility that PHAA's may be responsible for some 'erosion' morphologys on another more relevant thread
moonkoon
 
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Re: Hydrocarbons in the Deep Earth?

Unread postby Chromium6 » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:44 pm

Hydrogen Production by Supercritical Water Gasification of Biomass with Homogenous and Heterogeneous Catalyst
2014

Abstract

Biomass gasification in supercritical water is a clean and efficient way to convert biomass to hydrogen-rich gaseous products. Appropriate catalyst can lower the reaction temperature to guarantee the technological and economic feasibility. This paper selects Ca(OH)2, Na2CO3, K2CO3, NaOH, KOH, LiOH, and ZnCl2 as typical homogeneous catalysts and three kinds of Raney-Ni, dolomite, and olivine as typical heterogeneous catalysts. The catalyst effects are investigated in the process of biomass gasification in supercritical water with the temperature of 400°C, pressure of  MPa, and residence time of 20 min. The experimental results show that Raney-Ni has the best hydrogen selectivity and hydrogen yield. The mixture of NaOH with Raney-Ni was investigated in order to research the synergistic effect of different catalysts. The experimental results show that Raney-Ni and NaOH have a synergistic effect in the biomass gasification in supercritical water.

http://www.hindawi.com/journals/acmp/2014/160565/
http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/a ... 160565.pdf
--------

Mechanisms and Geochemical Models of Core Formation
(Rubie and Jacobson. Bayerishces Geoinstitut, University of Bayreuth)

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1504/1504.05417.pdf
Has recent coverage of papers on the Earth's core.

Biomass Gasification in Supercritical Water. Experimental Progress Achieved with the Verena Pilot Plant

Boukis, 2007

http://www.ikft.kit.edu/downloads/boukis-pub6.pdf

---------

Deep Earth: Physics and Chemistry of the Lower Mantle and Core

(Hidenori Terasaki, Rebecca Fischer) April 2016

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitl ... 92474.html


Description

Deep Earth: Physics and Chemistry of the Lower Mantle and Core highlights recent advances and the latest views of the deep Earth from theoretical, experimental, and observational approaches and offers insight into future research directions on the deep Earth. In recent years, we have just reached a stage where we can perform measurements at the conditions of the center part of the Earth using state-of-the-art techniques, and many reports on the physical and chemical properties of the deep Earth have come out very recently. Novel theoretical models have been complementary to this breakthrough. These new inputs enable us to compare directly with results of precise geophysical and geochemical observations. This volume highlights the recent significant advancements in our understanding of the deep Earth that have occurred as a result, including contributions from mineral/rock physics, geophysics, and geochemistry that relate to the topics of:

I. Thermal structure of the lower mantle and core

II. Structure, anisotropy, and plasticity of deep Earth materials

III. Physical properties of the deep interior

IV. Chemistry and phase relations in the lower mantle and core

V. Volatiles in the deep Earth

The volume will be a valuable resource for researchers and students who study the Earth's interior. The topics of this volume are multidisciplinary, and therefore will be useful to students from a wide variety of fields in the Earth Sciences.
See More
Table of Contents
Contributors vii

Preface ix

Part I: Thermal Strucure of Deep Earth 1

1 Melting of Fe Alloys and the Thermal Structure of the Core
Rebecca A. Fischer 3

2 Temperature of the Lower Mantle and Core Based on Ab Initio Mineral Physics Data
Taku Tsuchiya, Kenji Kawai, Xianlong Wang, Hiroki Ichikawa, and Haruhiko Dekura 13

3 Heat Transfer in the Core and Mantle
Abby Kavner and Emma S. G. Rainey 31

4 Thermal State and Evolution of the Earth Core and Deep Mantle
Stéphane Labrosse 43

Part II: Structures, Anisotropy, and Plasticity of Deep Earth Materials 55

5 Crystal Structures of Core Materials
Razvan Caracas 57

6 Crystal Structures of Minerals in the Lower Mantle
June K. Wicks and Thomas S. Duffy 69

7 Deformation of Core and Lower Mantle Materials
Sébastien Merkel and Patrick Cordier 89

8 Using Mineral Analogs to Understand the Deep Earth
Simon A. T. Redfern 101

Part III: Physical Properties of Deep Interior 111

9 Ground Truth: Seismological Properties of the Core
George Helffrich 113

10 Physical Properties of the Inner Core
Daniele Antonangeli 121

11 Physical Properties of the Outer Core
Hidenori Terasaki 129

Part IV: Chemistry and Phase Relations of Deep Interior 143

12 The Composition of the Lower Mantle and Core
William F. McDonough 145

13 Metal -Silicate Partitioning of Siderophile Elements and Core-Mantle Segregation
Kevin Righter 161

14 Mechanisms and Geochemical Models of Core Formation
David C. Rubie and Seth A. Jacobson 181

15 Phase Diagrams and Thermodynamics of Core Materials
Andrew J. Campbell 191

16 Chemistry of Core -Mantle Boundary
John W. Hernlund 201

17 Phase Transition and Melting in the Deep Lower Mantle
Kei Hirose 209

18 Chemistry of the Lower Mantle
Daniel J. Frost and Robert Myhill 225

19 Phase Diagrams and Thermodynamics of Lower Mantle Materials
Susannah M. Dorfman 241

Part V: Volatiles in Deep Interior 253

20 Hydrogen in the Earth’s Core: Review of the Structural, Elastic, and Thermodynamic Properties of Iron-Hydrogen Alloys
Caitlin A. Murphy 255

21 Stability of Hydrous Minerals and Water Reservoirs in the Deep Earth Interior
Eiji Ohtani, Yohei Amaike, Seiji Kamada, Itaru Ohira, and Izumi Mashino 265

22 Carbon in the Core
Bin Chen and Jie Li 277

Chapter 1:
http://media.wiley.com/product_data/exc ... 474-20.pdf
On the Windhexe: ''An engineer could not have invented this,'' Winsness says. ''As an engineer, you don't try anything that's theoretically impossible.''
Chromium6
 
Posts: 525
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:48 pm

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