Electrically charged rocks?

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Electrically charged rocks?

Unread postby MattEU » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:53 am

The magma flow may be influenced by isoelectrical focusing...the magma plasm would be electrically charged and the area around the volcano would be electrically active. The total lava flow would stretch from inside the volcano to the earth, so you could have potential difference, even an anode or cathode?

The fine layers being created by the isoelectrical focusing process?

Lloyd - those links are quality, cheers for them. We just got to work out what,where and maybe one day when :)
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Re: Electrically charged rocks?

Unread postby webolife » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:23 pm

They would not have been the same kind of flows [lahar/ash, eg.] but the word "flow" is significant. In the case of the Grand Canyon, only a half dozen massive flows of waterborne sediment would have been required to deposit the entire sequence, that together with somewhat chaotic change of current direction. The Grand Canyon sequencing is not what one would expect to find from hundreds of millions of years of slow gradual deposition at the bottom of a quiet sea.
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Re: Electrically charged rocks?

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:02 pm

We just got to work out what,where and maybe one day when
- Matt
How about this?
What: Great Flood tsunamis and megalightning
Where: among the Saturn System planets in the Saturn System and in the Solar System
When: 4300 to 5000 years ago
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Re: Electrically charged rocks?

Unread postby ancientd » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:49 pm

thoughts lloyd on sedimentation
yes I also think that deposition must occur from Z pinch effects when a discharge rips up material and deposits it elsewhere and obviously there is some wind driven stuff which after all is electrically mastered as probably are Tsunamis particularly as they apparently have been observed with gigantic glows flashing along the top. However what I am talking about here are very tight bands or layers deep down in the earths structures. Could we imagine electric currents within the earth ( which wal thornhill certainly believes is the case ) surfacing under say the effect of a mass coronal discharge and then turning the heated earth ( electrically into a plasma ) molten or otherwise. Then does the various polarities attached to different compounds naturally seperate into layers with different conductance, a la isoelectric focusing of compounds in gel. Although doubtless deposits from electric maschining by Berkeland currents does occur one would think it more randomised. For instance giant sand dumps as in the Sahara or other deserts. Sand by the way needs a solid explanation. Sand deposits in the middle of nowhere even if moved by wind were not manufactured by observed processes. Anyone game enough to explain sand. Must of been a huge electric discahrege ?????
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Re: Electrically charged rocks?

Unread postby nick c » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:16 pm

ancientd wrote:For instance giant sand dumps as in the Sahara or other deserts. Sand by the way needs a solid explanation. Sand deposits in the middle of nowhere even if moved by wind were not manufactured by observed processes. Anyone game enough to explain sand. Must of been a huge electric discahrege ?????

Some of the sand resulted from a lowering of the water table. The Sahara also shows evidence of enormous electrical discharges.
See Thornhill, in "Sahara's Abrupt Desertification I" and "II." There is an interesting discussion of the origin of the desert glass:
http://www.kronia.com/thoth/ThoIII10.txt

From the same article a description of deposition by electrical discharge:
The interplanetary discharge model has material electrically excavated from one body
(the anode) and accelerated toward another body (the cathode) in
the form of a self-contained plasmoid, rather like ball-
lightning. The matter trapped therein will suffer extremely
complex interactions. One effect is the melting, vapourization
and ionization of matter nearest the axis of the arc.
Electromagnetic sorting of ions by mass is then possible,
yielding some regions of high purity. Other regions will not be
heated to the same extent so that the final result may be a
chaotic and violent mixing of solids, liquids and gases to form
the matter that finally lands on the cathode or remains in space
as meteors, asteroids and comets.


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Re: Electrically charged rocks?

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:49 pm

Then does the various polarities attached to different compounds naturally seperate into layers with different conductance, a la isoelectric focusing of compounds in gel.

* Ancient D, sounds plausible offhand. Since you seem to be somewhat knowledgeable about electrophoresis etc, would you like to find or give a brief explanation of the process and how it might occur after tsunamis or a Great Flood along with electric discharging etc and maybe point to examples of particular rock strata that might be produced by that process?
* Does Nick's quote of Thornhill sound like what you mean: "Electromagnetic sorting of ions by mass is then possible, yielding some regions of high purity"?
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Re: Electrically charged rocks?

Unread postby moses » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:25 am

From the same article in ThoIII:
The stratification found in the lunar soil indicates many
episodes of deposition to form the regolith.


Thus the above quote in ThoIII by nick is about the Moon.
I now think that many episodes of deposition are not
necessary to form many layers.

Wal wrote:
In March this year, I wrote:
... When I look at exposed strata on Earth, with the sharp
physical and colour (often implying chemical) differences we see,
I am more disposed to the extraterrestrial origin theory. That is
particularly the case when a distinctive sequence appears
globally. When we find stratification on the Moon and smaller,
tectonically inert and unweathered objects we should be highly
sceptical of geological models of their formation. ...


So Wal sees much extraterrestial origin for earth sediments,
but he does not mention laminar flows. I think once one considers
sediments being extraterrestial laminar flows then a new
picture of the past emerges.
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Re: Electrically charged rocks?

Unread postby webolife » Wed Jun 24, 2009 9:12 am

A global effect, such as worldwide occurence of strata, indicates a global cause, which certainly points to an astronomical mechanism... one of the interesting evidences for this is the hundreds of so-called "impact" craters associated with the various layers of the "geologic column", and also by the way with massive extinctions... take away the presumed epochs of time connected with that imaginary stratum map, and you have a catastrophic event of literally astronomical proportions... time the global migration of people and the worldwide occurence of great flood stories, and you have the catastrophic "prehistory" of human kind.
Add to this the EDM theory for cratering, and the prevalence of the "plasma man" in rock art, and here we are at the EU!
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Re: Electrically charged rocks?

Unread postby mharratsc » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:53 pm

Oh hey, I have a question- pardon my lack of knowledge of geology and large scale electrical physics first tho! :oops:

I know (from info here at Thunderbolts) that space plasmas form into double-layers and that the physical composition of the layers are usually different. Most likely that jives with isoelectric focusing, in some fashion?

On this line of thought- if we surmise that isoelectric focusing might account for the creation of rock strata, might we be able to validate this notion by looking at the strata in question and see if the conductivity of these layers might follow the rules of double-layers in a plasma?

I mean- we don't *know* for certain that these layers of rock solidified and hardened on the surface without a doubt, right? Is it possible that some of these layers were created underground in a manner somewhat like a double-layer forming in gas plasmas? We know that some layers form almost globally, while others seem to be regional (if not smaller than even that).

I dunno- in the light of so much info of how electricity can make even solids do weird things, I think it's a bit of a presumption to always attribute layering and etc to the effects of water. Perhaps we just see the layering explosed near water so often, it just came to be something of a universal assumption?

Just throwing out an idea here, so feel free to shoot a hole in it- I don't mind being wrong about something as long as I learn something from it :)

Mike H.
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Re: Electrically charged rocks?

Unread postby moses » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:47 pm

mharratsc wrote:Oh hey, I have a question- pardon my lack of knowledge of geology and large scale electrical physics first tho! :oops:

I know (from info here at Thunderbolts) that space plasmas form into double-layers and that the physical composition of the layers are usually different. Most likely that jives with isoelectric focusing, in some fashion?

On this line of thought- if we surmise that isoelectric focusing might account for the creation of rock strata, might we be able to validate this notion by looking at the strata in question and see if the conductivity of these layers might follow the rules of double-layers in a plasma?

I mean- we don't *know* for certain that these layers of rock solidified and hardened on the surface without a doubt, right? Is it possible that some of these layers were created underground in a manner somewhat like a double-layer forming in gas plasmas? We know that some layers form almost globally, while others seem to be regional (if not smaller than even that).

I dunno- in the light of so much info of how electricity can make even solids do weird things, I think it's a bit of a presumption to always attribute layering and etc to the effects of water. Perhaps we just see the layering explosed near water so often, it just came to be something of a universal assumption?

Just throwing out an idea here, so feel free to shoot a hole in it- I don't mind being wrong about something as long as I learn something from it :)

Mike H.

I think it is more a question of flow rather than water.
Are you suggesting that the area between sediment layers
was once a double layer ? So that a large volume of
rocks became plasmatised and separated into cells of
different composition with double layers between these
layered cells ? I just feel that flow must have been
involved.
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Re: Electrically charged rocks?

Unread postby ancientd » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:15 am

re lloyd on isoelectric focussing. Ill get back to you on a good explanation of electrophoresis and iso electric focusing but simplistically it is the migration of compounds depending on their electrical conductance or if you like their behaviour when subject ed to a potential difference between a cathode and anode in a medium which accelerates these qualities ( waffling a bit here ) But as regarding mass this is not a sorting by this means which of course does occur in a centrifuge . guess this may well happen as well with a bit of imagination .But of course you also must be aware that these layers are also concretized presumably by the same processes . I would imagine some sort of initial plasticity from heating electrical cuurents and then a return from chaos and re stabilizing of some harmonic.IE Cooler temps. But this is all in my imaginationWho was it that was saying these seperate layers may be able to be measured for iso electric potential. I wish I was a research scientist with mega amounts of funding to check some of this stuff. By the way Wal is quite big on the currents within the Earth and presumably other bodies playing a large part in discharging to the surface I quote "like thunder and lightning but beneath the ground"As to what is the cause of this Sun,planets ,galactic events ???? But we do know what we see today is nothing compared to past events . Ill returnon an accurate description of isoelectric focusing as Ive been out of it for years . Better get my facts right. all the best
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Re: Electrically charged rocks?

Unread postby ancientd » Thu Jun 25, 2009 6:30 am

also to Nickc. I am totally unconvinced that sand is created by the action of waves. Although it is usually assosciated around beaches and the action of waves does erode cliffs, rolls rocks and breaks them down......nowhere do you see the material around for the sea to break down silcon ( sand ) rocks into fine particles. Sand is usually of a similar size and compositon along a wide area with enclosures of locally broken down rock merely as an addendum. Many beaches are also constructed of very similar size pebbles. Now mega tsunamis could of washed in these deposits in a scouring of a bay but where did the material come from in the first palce. The glsses in the Sahara are interesting perhaps as examples of electrical cosmogenic discharges but this is not to explain the billions of tons of sand dumped on old Egyptian ruins . They even complained about it in the Papyrus Ishmar ??? spelling "??? "When will the sand cease ?"Has anyone thought of the transmutation of nitrogen and oxygen into silicon under extreme electrical provocation such as in a Z pinch These elements are extremely close or related in the periodic tables . But here we get into more unknowns.
Any thoughts
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Re: Electrically charged rocks?

Unread postby nick c » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:06 pm

hi ancientd,
also to Nickc. I am totally unconvinced that sand is created by the action of waves. Although it is usually assosciated around beaches and the action of waves does erode cliffs, rolls rocks and breaks them down......nowhere do you see the material around for the sea to break down silcon ( sand ) rocks into fine particles.

I too am unconvinced. In my previous post, I did not state that the sand of the Sahara was the result of wave action. I wrote:
Some of the sand resulted from a lowering of the water table.


I don't exactly know where all of the sand in the Sahara came from, only that there was an enormous flood in Northern Africa and after the flood waters receded and the catastrophe was over the water table in North Africa was substantially lowered and the Sahara desert was created. This drying out would certainly contribute to the creation of the desert sands. I don't think that is the complete story though, as there is also evidence of powerful electric discharges.
See the section "Egypt and North Africa" in the article [url2=http://www.bearfabrique.org/Catastrophism/floods/mfloods.html]The Flood[/url2] by Charles Ginenthal

So, I was not stating the sand came from wave action although the erosive action of waves does create sand out of the surrounding material, I would not accept that as an explanation for desert sands.

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Sand and water

Unread postby MattEU » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:08 pm

I think there is so much visual evidence that sand is unlikely to have much to do with erosion of rocks etc that the real question is how was it formed. Also, is it still being formed?

As stated sand found appears to have nothing to do with the host rock around it, normally being a very different colour. On the island of Gozo there is Ramla Bay, a massive valley on a small island and the Bay has fine orange/red sand with white stones. Malta is a limestone island so where does all the orange/red sand come from and why only on this beach?

Leading to the question. Is the Bay there because of the sand or is the sand there because of the Bay?

Has anyone thought of the transmutation of nitrogen and oxygen into silicon under extreme electrical provocation such as in a Z pinch These elements are extremely close or related in the periodic tables.


Very interesting, didnt know that.

An idea is that maybe not all sand was produced in a Z pinch / catastrophe event. Maybe in some places it is being produced now, as part of the ongoing exchange/disharge with the EU. Dust and minerals are produced in a Plasma Discharge including rain clouds and "Black Holes". Water is likely to be produced either in the earth or on the boundaries of rock layers.

Sand seems to appear in certain areas or is found isolated with no reason for it to be there. The Great Sand Dunes National Park in Colorado and the Nebraska Sand Hills (over the Ogallala aquifer) are examples. One thing that seems to be associated with sand is water. But if water is also a sign of EU activity then it does not have to be erosion.
You have th oasis of the desert and of course the fossil water. Egypt has its Nile and certainly had a lot more water back in the day. Did a change in the earth start producing more sand in Egypt and ruined what was a fertile watery land?

Image

This image shows part of the earths global electric weather and where the land and the sea meets there is a large potential difference (I guess). Could this have created the sand in a catostrophe event when more energy was in the land/sea? Could it still be doing it? I suspect that in certain areas it is still going on. Otherwise beaches would have been washed away and the sand diluted around the world? Each beaches different EU level producing its own unique sand.

How do deserts expand, does the soil around them turn to sand or is more sand produced. Is it blown forward or does the earth produce the sand as part of the exchange?
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Re: Electrically charged rocks?

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun Jun 28, 2009 9:15 pm

* Nitrogen and Oxygen would not transmute to Silicon, normally. Instead, 2 Nitrogen atoms would, or one Oxygen and one Carbon would. N7:14 + N7:14 = Si14:28 or C6:12 + O8:16 = Si14:28. The O2 could combine chemically with the Silicon to make SiO2 once the two Nitrogens transmute to Silicon. Is that what you meant?
Image
* A year or more ago on the forum someone mentioned that it was found that the sand in the Sahara sandstorms is levitated considerably by electric fields. The scientists assumed that the charge came from sand grains rubbing against each other, but it's probably due to the Earth's normal electric charge. In this photo, do the sand formations resemble patterns of iron filings on paper over a magnet? If sand were simply wind-blown, like dust or powder, I doubt that there would be such patterns. Charge produces electric and magnetic fields. The fields seem to influence the resting positions of the sand grains and the sand seems to influence the fields in turn.
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