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Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Water Comets bombarding Earth

Unread postby Julian Braggins » Thu Sep 30, 2010 1:55 am

I found this on WUWT today in a link on a post there. Has this been posted on Thunderbolts before ?, as the original story goes back to 1997. The article goes on to document the opposition he has had to publication, despite new confirmation from new satellite instruments that he designed. Same old story it seems.

Water Comets bombarding Earth


"Here is the story of what happened to Louis Frank between the discovery of the small comets in 1986 and their confirmation in 1997. This story first appeared in The Washington Post on Sunday July 13, 1997".

"In the spring of 1986, I published my explanation of the black spots in a scientific journal: The Earth's atmosphere was being bombarded by house-sized, water-bearing objects traveling at 25,000 mph, one every three seconds or so. That's 20 a minute, 1,200 an hour, 28,800 a day, 864,000 a month and more than 10 million a year. Spelled out in this way, the numbers truly boggle the mind. These objects, which I call "small comets," disintegrate high above the Earth and deposit huge clouds of water vapor into the upper atmosphere. Over the history of this planet, the small comets may have dumped enough water to fill the oceans and may have even provided the organic ingredients necessary for life on Earth".

http://smallcomets.physics.uiowa.edu/wp.html

Wasn't this the accepted theory for how Earth got its water?
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Re: Water Comets bombarding Earth

Unread postby nick c » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:50 am

Hi Julian Braggins,
Wal Thornhill offers an alternative (Electric Universe) explanation:
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=9kee2918
I have an alternative explanation for the ionospheric holes. My proposal was posted on the Internet on 2nd June 1997, under the title, "Comments on Interplanetary Snowballs."

Frank noted two important characteristics of the ionospheric "holes." First, the rate of occurrence is qualitatively similar to that for radar meteors (that is, meteors whose presence can be detected by radar echoes from their ionized trail through the atmosphere). Second is that the movement of the holes showed the prograde motion characteristic of meteoritic debris. These observations provide a strong link between the holes and simple meteors. But there is another essential element to the puzzle – the connection between ionized meteor trails and electrical discharge activity in the ionosphere. The meteor trail acts as a giant lightning rod that connects the conducting ionosphere to the upper atmosphere. If the earth is an electrical body in an electrical solar system, it is the equivalent of a temporary short-circuit of a giant capacitor. The current flowing along the meteor trail gives rise to the unexplained brilliance and long-lasting glows of some meteors. It causes them to disintegrate like an exploding capacitor, high in the atmosphere. The Tunguska explosion was probably the most noteworthy example of the effect.

In an earlier news item I expressed my opinion that the Columbia shuttle disaster was a result of a rare ionospheric discharge to the spacecraft. I am not convinced by an experiment that fired foam plastic at a Shuttle wing. Experiments performed with a desired outcome can usually be made to “succeed.” There are many infamous examples, along with some yet to be recognized. Airline pilots expressed disquiet about the lightning jets discovered above storms. No one knows what effect it might have on an airliner. However, due to the diffuse nature of the discharge and because airliners don’t leave much of an ionized wake to act as a lightning rod, there is probably nothing to fear. Anyway, airliners do their best to avoid flying above electrical storms. It should be noted also that meteors and space shuttles entering the atmosphere from above and descending rapidly through many tens of kilometres could remove the need for a 10 km high storm below to offer a preferred electrical path through the atmosphere to the ground.

My hypothesis is a logical extension of my earlier explanation of red sprites, blue jets and elves. The recent discovery of giant lightning jets [see below] provides even stronger evidence for such a link.

One practically unknown characteristic of lightning is its ability to compress and accelerate atmospheric ions along the discharge channel from regions of high pressure to regions of lower pressure. In other words, it creates a roughly vertical jet of warmer air. These fountains can sometimes be seen from aircraft flying above electrical storms, protruding as filaments of cloud. Eric Crew, a colleague of the British electrical researcher, Dr. Charles Bruce, has suggested that such jets of warm, moist air into the stratosphere may be the cause of very large hailstones. The warm jet phenomenon has been reported at ground level: In July 1971 a retired general practitioner, Dr L.H. Worth, climbed to the rounded summit of the Puy Mary, 1770m, in central France. He could see a storm in the valley below him about 3km away and he heard the thunder. A few seconds later he felt a blast of hot air, so powerful that he had to lean against it, and this occurred three times in the next few seconds. That it was not an imaginary or hallucinatory experience is shown by the fact that people on the mountain near him rushed away for shelter.
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Re: Water Comets bombarding Earth

Unread postby Julian Braggins » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:50 am

Thanks Nick,
this would explain the water signature, and without further evidence of an incoming object well outside the atmosphere the claim will be noted 'unproven' 8-)
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Ice/Hail Formed Crater features

Unread postby dahlenaz » Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:42 am

I don't want to throw a monkey wrench into the works but you might not want to draw a final concluson on the absolute cause of craters until you take a look at what hail stones created on the ground in my area.

I would not say that this disqualifies the electric (EDM) theory but it sure could generate some food for argument of other causes.

http://para-az.com/hail211c.html

Image


3d...zp
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Re: Ice/Hail Formed Crater features

Unread postby flyingcloud » Sun Nov 07, 2010 6:54 am

find many bulls eyes?

any in solid rock
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Re: Ice/Hail Formed Crater features

Unread postby davesmith_au » Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:23 pm

Zane your diligence in exploring factors other than electric crater formation should be a message to us all. Well done for keeping your mind truly open.

The only observation I would make of the craters formed by the hail is that, from the images they appear to be more "bowl shaped" with no particularly flat-floored ones. My own opinion is that bowl-shaped craters are much more likely to be the result of some kind of physical impact than the many flat-floored craters often with central peaks, which we see on many planetary bodies. I have always been open to the idea that some of the craters we see are in fact from impacts, though I think the vast majority are electrical in nature.

Cheers, Dave.
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Re: Ice/Hail Formed Crater features

Unread postby dahlenaz » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:35 am

davesmith_au wrote:Zane your diligence in exploring factors other than electric crater formation should be a message to us all. Well done for keeping your mind truly open.

The only observation I would make of the craters formed by the hail is that, from the images they appear to be more "bowl shaped" with no particularly flat-floored ones. My own opinion is that bowl-shaped craters are much more likely to be the result of some kind of physical impact than the many flat-floored craters often with central peaks, which we see on many planetary bodies. I have always been open to the idea that some of the craters we see are in fact from impacts, though I think the vast majority are electrical in nature.

Cheers, Dave.



Look closely,, there are many with flat floors and there are crater chains of a particular variation but i did not look for bulls-eye craters, yet.
The importance of these images is to have something to draw a comparison to, for the single purpose of differentiation. The timing of this hail storm could not have been more perfect, just when some of my work was about to be highlighted by someone else. These features give reason to be far more careful in assignment of cause. To not make a thorough comparison would be foolish in the highest of degrees. This has resolved in my mind the need for a broader scope of experimentation before any difinative conclusions are assigned. 3d...zp
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Re: Ice/Hail Formed Crater features

Unread postby dahlenaz » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:43 am

flyingcloud wrote:find many bulls eyes?

any in solid rock


I did not look for bulls eye features, but still may be able.

Solid rock,,, ???????????? not likely,, but dents in hard objects, metal, wood and cactus plants were found. 3d..zp
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Re: Ice/Hail Formed Crater features

Unread postby flyingcloud » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:06 am

I am fairly certain that there is no denial that craters from impacts certainly occur.

Sorry for the solid rock comment.
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Re: Ice/Hail Formed Crater features

Unread postby dahlenaz » Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:59 am

flyingcloud wrote:I am fairly certain that there is no denial that craters from impacts certainly occur.

Sorry for the solid rock comment.


I must clarify something about the ground these features were found on. It was in some ways solidified dust, the crust formed as a talc material goes from wet to dry. I have to reflect back on the timing of the hail to any moistening of the surface from rain, i think the hail came suddenly with only slight rain preceeding it. The loosness of some areas in the images can be seen in certain images and those craters are more bowl shaped and less defined in appearance. Those on harder areas had flat floors and large diameters. A moistened surface would have more evenly dispersed the energy of the impact. A case that supports an impact to an inland lake as the casue for arizona's crater. 3dzp
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Re: Ice/Hail Formed Crater features

Unread postby mharratsc » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:52 am

Dahlenaz said:

A case that supports an impact to an inland lake as the casue for arizona's crater


So you're suggesting that a godawful big hailstone did a low velocity drop onto Arizona and created that crater by its sheer weight and low velocity, then melted away? o.O

Might I remind you that no impactor has ever been discovered for that crater..? Morphologically-speaking, there are more differences than similarities between say- Martian craters and the hailstone impacts you show above.

Things to look for in your hailstone craters: raised central peaks, terraced/sculpted sides, perfectly linear chains, lack of escavated debris in the vacinity.

One thing to also consider, is that I have also seen soil that looks very much like what you posted below, but the cause of the depressions were in fact... raindrops. :\
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Re: Ice/Hail Formed Crater features

Unread postby dahlenaz » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:27 pm

mharratsc wrote:Dahlenaz said:

A case that supports an impact to an inland lake as the casue for arizona's crater


So you're suggesting that a godawful big hailstone did a low velocity drop onto Arizona and created that crater by its sheer weight and low velocity, then melted away? o.O

Might I remind you that no impactor has ever been discovered for that crater..? Morphologically-speaking, there are more differences than similarities between say- Martian craters and the hailstone impacts you show above.

Things to look for in your hailstone craters: raised central peaks, terraced/sculpted sides, perfectly linear chains, lack of escavated debris in the vacinity.

One thing to also consider, is that I have also seen soil that looks very much like what you posted below, but the cause of the depressions were in fact... raindrops. :\



No not at all,,, d...z
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Re: Ice/Hail Formed Crater features

Unread postby dahlenaz » Wed Nov 17, 2010 10:56 am

Getting back to the questions above and attempting to add some clarity, the hail features to a moistened surface
point to the same mechanism that you see from the rain drops you mention, hydraulic related forces which magnify
and organize the forces associated with an impact. I'm not saying that all features on other worlds had their cause in a manner identical to how these hail features were formed but i am pointing to the outcome and whatever similarities are presented.
You mention the absence of a localized impactor at the Arizona sight, that would be expected if the actual mechanism was what i was suggesting in mentioning it again here. The area was a shallow inland lake and the forces of an exploding meteor should be considered for their effect on the body of water but more importantly the underlying surface. And we must not forget how heavily populated that area was and then became depopulated. I question the geologic clock in much of what is claimed in the western hemisphere.
The hail features provide nearly exact replicas- repeatedly- of features here and elsewhere, so a closer look at the combined forces associated with surface characteristics and an impactor need to be thoroughly considered. d...z
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Re: Ice/Hail Formed Crater features

Unread postby Drethon » Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:01 am

Until we see a crater actively being formed we can't fully prove or disprove either method of crater forming but each method better explains certain craters.

Take the following for example, why would two craters side by side not have one full crater and one partially covered crater. Can you find craters from a hale storm that match this formation?

Image

Just my $0.02
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Re: Ice/Hail Formed Crater features

Unread postby dahlenaz » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:06 pm

Drethon wrote:Until we see a crater actively being formed we can't fully prove or disprove either method of crater forming but each method better explains certain craters.

Take the following for example, why would two craters side by side not have one full crater and one partially covered crater.

>>> Can you find craters from a hale storm that match this formation?

>image sniped<

Just my $0.02


Yes, they can be seen in the image above and in others, and this is in an environment of atmospheric pressure and strong gravity and a hail storm that was like a machine gun attack.
There should be no surprise to find these features in a place abscent of those forces. d...z
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