Electric rain, snow, hail ....

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Hailstones

Unread postby keeha » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:00 pm

June16,09: Freak Beijing storm turns day into night
Today's extreme weather follows yesterday's hail storms across eastern China's Anhui province, which killed 14 people and injured more than 180, AFP reports.
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Re: Hailstones

Unread postby mharratsc » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:47 am

Ya know- that sort of matches an observation of mine recently regarding the weather.

I'm an avid radar mosaic watcher at weather.com. One of the things I've noticed recently is the 'spotiness' of thunderstorm activity across the midwestern US this past year. Usually you see spots of thunderstorm/tornado watch activity inside a long pressure wave/front rolling along, but this year it's been a little different. Now, you'll have widely dispersed cloud coverage without a strong noticeable front, but here and there along the moisture that's been roiling through the jet stream you'll see these spots of intense radar return.
Normally these spots are caused by denser clouds containing more moisture... but now I'm not so certain that that is all it is.

Mr. Thornhill had suggested that the 'shiny mountains' of Venus was caused by St. Elmo's Fire along the ridges of the mountains, and that plasma was a most excellent reflector of radar waves. Could it be that these 'spots of thunderstorms' are extremely large electrical pathways between the surface and lower atmosphere that are more highly ionized than normal, causing extreme radar reflection and causing these toroidal 'concretions' of solid water up in the clouds?

Is it possible to have a thundercloud of such electrical density that it would have secondary currents creating z-pinches forming these toroidal ice balls almost like the discharges on Mars create those hematite blueberries?

Mike H.
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Re: Hailstones

Unread postby Osmosis » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:04 pm

I wonder if a very tight radar beam, such as used on aircraft fire controls, could be used to probe storms :?:
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Re: Hailstones

Unread postby mharratsc » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:14 am

You made me think of something, Osmosis...

IF those thundercells were nothing more than 'rainclouds' (or even solid tubes of water for that matter) adjusting the power and the frequency of the radar beam in use would let you see inside that column or even through it. We've had radar that can paint a picture of submerged submarines below the surface of the water for over a decade (or so I read in... Popular Science! *cough*)

So- IF it were just water in suspension with some ionization and current running through it, tuning the emitter a bit would compensate for the physical matter in the space being scanned and you would be able to see mostly through it. BUT if it were predominantly a conducting plasma... I would think you would get nothing but reflection no matter what you did to the radar emission!
What corroboration for the EU argument to be able to see these giant atmospheric circuits all over the place, rain or shine, and start mapping the circuits of our planet! :)

Wow, Os knocked that one into deep left field and sure enough I caught it... o.O

Mike H.
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Re: Hailstones

Unread postby Osmosis » Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:20 am

Anybody have a spare radar? :D
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Plasma at the End of the Rainbow

Unread postby junglelord » Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:34 pm

AURORAS AND A RAINBOW AT NIGHT: At midnight on Dec. 23rd, Karl Johnston found himself climbing down a cliff on the banks of the Slave River, near Fort Smith in the Northwest Territories of Canada. He paused for breath, looked out over the rapids, and this is what he saw:

Image
Image


"A rainbow was cutting through the aurora borealis," he says.

A rainbow at night? "Moonlight was shining into the mist above the rapids--and that's what made the rainbow," he explains. Technically, it's called a fogbow. Fogbows are close cousins of rainbows and they are formed in essentially the same way: light bounces in and out of water droplets to produce a luminous arc.

Johnston's lunar fogbow formed above the rapids just as a solar wind stream was buffeting Earth's magnetic field, giving rise to auroras and a rare conjunction of Arctic night lights. It's enough to make you scale a cliff at midnight. More images:
#1
http://spaceweather.com/aurora/images20 ... 7sgc9q0b65
#2,
http://spaceweather.com/aurora/images20 ... t1415if504
#3.
http://spaceweather.com/aurora/images20 ... t1415if504
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Snow formed by Electricity

Unread postby TalonThorn » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:38 pm

Has this been mentioned before? This website is quite interesting in it's information about snowflakes, but the thing that struck me most is that they use electricity to make snowflakes in the lab. With the past discussions about storms being driven by electrical forces in part, this intrigued me. Thought I'd share it with those who may not know about the site.

http://www.its.caltech.edu/~atomic/snow ... igner1.htm
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Re: Snow formed by Electricity

Unread postby Osmosis » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:08 pm

Fascinating website. Note the (E-universal) hexagons! :o :o
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Re: Snow formed by Electricity

Unread postby The Great Dog » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:07 am

The Great Dog thinks all crystals are electrical and form in the same way. This TPOD was interesting:

Electric Caverns

Image

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Re: Snow formed by Electricity

Unread postby junglelord » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:44 am

Again and again, we see that to duplicate natures forms, from spiral galaxies to snowflakes, we NEED electricity...not gravity. Infact we have made many forms without gravity, but never without electricity....chew on that says The Junglelord.
If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.
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Re: Snow formed by Electricity

Unread postby nick c » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:02 am

An oldie but goodie!
From the forum thread [url2=http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=2170&sid=923394dd1b990cede36c369f32aacd28]Recovered Snowflakes[/url2], my favorite snowflake picture:
capped_column_snowflake_s.jpg
capped_column_snowflake_s.jpg (20.18 KiB) Viewed 9949 times


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Re: Snow formed by Electricity

Unread postby solrey » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:18 am

Kewl. That seems like an extension of prior research on Making Ice at Room Temperature.

Kang and co-workers trapped the water in a nanometre wide gap between the gold-plated tip of a scanning tunnelling microscope (STM) and a gold surface. Previously it had been predicted that water would freeze above its normal freezing point if an electric field of 109 volts per metre was applied. However, the Seoul team found that the water froze in a much weaker electric field of just 106 volts per metre.
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Re: Snow formed by Electricity

Unread postby bboyer » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:24 pm

nick c wrote:An oldie but goodie!
From the forum thread [url2=http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=2170&sid=923394dd1b990cede36c369f32aacd28]Recovered Snowflakes[/url2]

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Beat me to it. :P
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Re: Snow formed by Electricity

Unread postby Trouserman » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:54 pm

junglelord wrote:Again and again, we see that to duplicate natures forms, from spiral galaxies to snowflakes, we NEED electricity...not gravity. Infact we have made many forms without gravity, but never without electricity....chew on that says The Junglelord.


NEED electricity? Take a break from patting yourself on the back long enough to note that they also had success with simple free-fall grown snowflakes (which look more like natural flakes than the ones on electric needles).

Osmosis wrote:Fascinating website. Note the (E-universal) hexagons! :o :o


The hexagons can also be attributed simply to the hexagonal structure of the ice crystals.

That said, the electric force is fundamental to chemistry. What's presented at that site just doesn't support the importance of the kind of electrical environment you seem to mean to the formation of snowflakes.
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Re: Snow formed by Electricity

Unread postby mharratsc » Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:29 pm

If future experiments do find the correlation between atomic forces and gravity (perhaps dipolar charges in atomic structure akin to EM forces), then most likely any argument towards the one or the other will prove moot. When thermokinetic force is removed from water molecules, what governs their adhering to one another? It seems EM forces can cause them to take uncharacteristic shapes, as far as snowflakes go. Would gravity play a part? You wouldn't think so, but if atoms truly do have dipolar EM characteristics, it would certainly explain the fractal patterns, wouldn't it? And most likely, gravity is tied into that in some form as well (if I understand 1/10th of what Wal Thornhill was surmising in his article 'Electric Gravity'.)

Mind you- not a physicist or a chemist, so I may be talking out my backside. :oops: I'm just trying to tie different lines of thought together into something a bit more homogenous. :)

I would like to see if I can find more microscopic photos of snowflakes however, to see if there is a common hexagonal form found with all of them. Hexagons form in the cross-section of an electric current (as in the hexagonal craters found on solar bodies). How does that tie into typical flat little snowflakes I wonder?

Please pardon my very layman musings,

Mike H.
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