Hannukah: clearing the temple of a Greek statue of Zeus

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Hannukah: clearing the temple of a Greek statue of Zeus

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Tue Jan 01, 2019 11:17 pm

Most of us are well aware of the subjective nature of comparative mythology, but are willing to exercise a bit of temporary lenience toward it in order to find out if there is any merit in a particular argument. For instance, we may find that there are unexpected and startling themes of lightning and thunderbolts in myths world wide. But there are times when a comparative mythologist takes the most simple and straightforward facts of a matter and turns them on their head. Probably the most stunning example is this statement from Dr. Velikovsky:

The memory of these stupendous events survived for millennia and vestiges of the cult of Saturn persist even till today. One of these memorials is the feast of light, celebrated in mid-winter: Hannukah or Christmas, both stemming from the Roman Saturnalia.


For any one who is not aware of the origins of the Jewish holiday called Hanukkah, there is a secondary historical source which describes the events Hanukkah commemorates: the two books of Maccabees.

There are also hundreds of reference works, going back hundreds of years, which give brief summaries of the meaning of Hanukkah. At the very least, dozens of references are easily within walking distance for most people.

Any one who makes the minimum effort to read about it will see quite plainly that the Jewish people were not celebrating Saturnalia. They were celebrating the removal of a Greek idol of Zeus from their own temple, and gaining back their independence from the occupying Greek Empire.

Here are some key phrases to look up:
Antiochus IV Epiphanes
Hellenization
Maccabees
Romanization
Hannukah
idolatry
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Re: Hannukah: clearing the temple of a Greek statue of Zeus

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:11 pm

Yes, Velikovsky made many errors. Cardona said if he had debated with mythologists instead of astronomers, he would have lost handily. His Venus and Mars scenarios were off by maybe a thousand years and occurred well before Biblical and historical events, but at least his general idea was correct, and his Saturn scenario was much better.
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Re: Hannukah: clearing the temple of a Greek statue of Zeus

Unread postby nick c » Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:19 pm

V made some errors in chronology, so did Cardona.
And i do not put much stock in Cardona's chronology as it is basically a mainstream view.
My criticism of Cardona's analysis of Velikovsky and his sources is that he is throwing the baby out with the bath water. And i always had the impression that there was personal animus in Cardona's critiques of Velikovsky.
That being said, I value the work of both men.
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Re: Hannukah: clearing the temple of a Greek statue of Zeus

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Tue Jan 29, 2019 9:41 pm

by Lloyd » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:11 pm

Yes, Velikovsky made many errors. Cardona said if he had debated with mythologists instead of astronomers, he would have lost handily. His Venus and Mars scenarios were off by maybe a thousand years and occurred well before Biblical and historical events, but at least his general idea was correct, and his Saturn scenario was much better.
Lloyd


That conversation about D. Cordona was very enlightening. It provided a missing piece. I have noticed in interviews over the years that there is a lot of reliance on and deference to D. Cordona's books when questions about the dates come up. Thank you.

I originally thought that the Electric Universe held promise for offering several means of dating that would be based on real measurements and field work. But nothing has emerged as a proper method or metric yet.

...Not that historians will ever be objective (:
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Re: Hannukah: clearing the temple of a Greek statue of Zeus

Unread postby moses » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:46 pm

As far as datings go the Younger Dryas event or events at around 10,000 BC or so is firming strongly in my mind. This event was the mountain forming event and so a planetary interaction and not a comet or asteroid. This comes just after the ice ages and means that there was at least 6 or 7 thousand years of planetary chaotic orbits before the Sumerian civilization.

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Re: Hannukah: clearing the temple of a Greek statue of Zeus

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:09 pm

by moses » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:46 pm

As far as datings go the Younger Dryas event or events at around 10,000 BC or so is firming strongly in my mind. This event was the mountain forming event and so a planetary interaction and not a comet or asteroid. This comes just after the ice ages and means that there was at least 6 or 7 thousand years of planetary chaotic orbits before the Sumerian civilization.

Cheers,
Mo


So in this case, ice ages are the result of planetary movement farther from the sun than our present orbit allows.
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Re: Hannukah: clearing the temple of a Greek statue of Zeus

Unread postby moses » Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:58 pm

Hi Brigit Bara,
The ice ages would be the result of the Earth in a very elliptical orbit getting near Venus or perhaps closer to the Sun and then travelling out past the present orbit of Mars, maybe into the asteroid belt. Any further and it would likely be influenced greatly by Jupiter which would have upset the regular pattern seen in the ice core records.

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Re: Hannukah: clearing the temple of a Greek statue of Zeus

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:28 pm

moses says,
"This event was the mountain forming event and so a planetary interaction and not a comet or asteroid."

Can you direct me to a place in the forum where you have stated your own ideas about the electrical mountain forming process?

In my rock club, I used to amuse myself every once in a while by pointing out very fresh and decidedly un-eroded features of the mountains and hills on our coasts. They would just look at me with great patience, and smile, and explain to me that these were 10s of millions of years old, as were the fossils in them. It was funny. I did not do that very often.
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Re: Hannukah: clearing the temple of a Greek statue of Zeus

Unread postby moses » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:07 pm

I wrote the following on Nov7 2015:
"Guys, I would like to consider how the Andes and Rockies were formed. I think the evidence is pretty clear that they were formed rapidly. But how.

Well I think along the lines that if something grabbed hold of North and South America and stopped them moving, then the Pacific Ocean would crash into the Americas. Also the Atlantic would get stretched and what was land would sink into the sea. And I think that there is evidence for both the stretching and the sinking.

So what could grab hold of the Americas. A planet could do this through electrical interaction. Which leads to the idea that this planet came at Earth and electrically interacted with South America near the equator and then went above the Earth and so interacted with North America and then the Arctic. After that there are options, perhaps either an orbit around Earth or just pass more or less straight past. Perhaps the Himalayas were formed and some sinking of land in the Pacific.

Then we have to think that this could have occurred when the last of the big creatures were wiped out. So at some stage of the Younger Dryas. "

I don't store where I wrote my articles, but I summarize in 'History of the Earth' but not much there about the above.

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Re: Hannukah: clearing the temple of a Greek statue of Zeus

Unread postby seasmith » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:37 pm

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Re: Hannukah: clearing the temple of a Greek statue of Zeus

Unread postby moses » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:06 pm

seasmith,
Are you suggesting that the Greenland hole was due to a comet or asteroid, or an electrical strike.
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Re: Hannukah: clearing the temple of a Greek statue of Zeus

Unread postby seasmith » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:39 pm

Beyond the grains in the sediment sample that we interpret to be possible ejecta, no ejecta layer associated with this structure has yet been identified. Despite the absence of such additional evidence, an impact origin for the structure beneath Hiawatha Glacier is the simplest interpretation of our observations, which we explicitly accept for the remainder of this discussion. This crater is potentially one of the 25 largest impact structures on Earth, and it is the only one of this size that still has a significant portion of its original surface topographic expression.

They further speculate a "highly fractionated" impactor of a "relatively rare iron-type";
but the lack of ejecta, abundance of 'shocked glasses', crater morphology (and not to mention that ghastly green color :mrgreen: ) all indicate electrical arcing to this arm-chair geo-logist.

Science Advances 14 Nov 2018
http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/11/eaar8173
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Re: Hannukah: clearing the temple of a Greek statue of Zeus

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:30 pm

by moses » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:07 pm
I think along the lines that if something grabbed hold of North and South America and stopped them moving, then the Pacific Ocean would crash into the Americas...A planet could do this through electrical interaction. Which leads to the idea that this planet came at Earth and electrically interacted with South America near the equator and then went above the Earth and so interacted with North America and then the Arctic.


I see, thank you. You have a model which assumes large scale crustal deformation, folds, uplift, etc. as a result of the movement of the continents and sea beds.

It struck me that your buckling mountain ranges may even agree with geological interpretations of the folding, faulting, uplift and erosion in Uniformitarian Geology -- except that the process was rapidly achieved through a planetary interaction.

Since we already have a moon where Lunar Distance is between 221,500 m and 252,700 m --which only governs the tides of the ocean by its gravitational force -- the other planet must have brushed even closer. Or perhaps one possibility in your model is that the capture of the moon was the cause.

Any way, I don't think I have ever heard anyone say directly to me that the mountain building period was 10,000 years ago. That was new! (:

I think that with large enough thunderbolts, mountains could be rapidly raised. There are mountains on many moons and planets, but not plate techtonics.
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Re: Hannukah: clearing the temple of a Greek statue of Zeus

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:38 pm

by seasmith » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:39 pm

"...but the lack of ejecta, abundance of 'shocked glasses', crater morphology (and not to mention that ghastly green color :mrgreen: ) all indicate electrical arcing to this arm-chair geo-logist."

That green in the topological chart of the newly discovered Greenland crater leaves you not knowing if your coming or going. Using the same colors for up and down is a favorite for temp charts too. (: Still, a nice clean electrical scar!
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