HOT! CONFIRMED! Photonuclear reactions by lightning

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HOT! CONFIRMED! Photonuclear reactions by lightning

Unread postby FS3 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:01 pm

What have we been stating -- e.g. in the case of Venus -- regarding the possible surface reaction of N towards C by means of Fe as catalysator? Japanese scientists have now found the proof what lightnings can achieve in Earth's atmosphere.

For the first time, scientists have witnessed lightning triggering nuclear reactions in the atmosphere, confirming a hypothesis dating back almost a century...

Generating radioactive isotopes in thunderstorms

Lightning, particularly the very energetic -ray flashes, can theoretically generate radioactive isotopes through the interaction of relativistic electrons with atoms and molecules in the air. Some weak observational evidence for this was recently claimed. Teruaki Enoto and collaborators report observations of a coastal thunderstorm in Japan on 6 February 2017, in which they see a clear signature of positron annihilation associated with -ray flashes, combined with -rays arising in the de-excitation of nuclei excited by neutron capture...

Image

See the above arxiv-Link in the headline or look here for the paper:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature24630

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Re: HOT! CONFIRMED! Photonuclear reactions by lightning

Unread postby Webbman » Wed Nov 29, 2017 4:36 am

its no surprise that lightning produces light spectra in different wavelengths including gamma. How exactly did they measure the 0.511mev on the lightning bolts?

seems like they just detected the gamma rays and filled in the blanks to get their money or whatever.
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Re: HOT! CONFIRMED! Photonuclear reactions by lightning

Unread postby FS3 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:26 am

Webbman wrote:its no surprise that lightning produces light spectra in different wavelengths including gamma. How exactly did they measure the 0.511mev on the lightning bolts?

seems like they just detected the gamma rays and filled in the blanks to get their money or whatever.


They took the data from 4 stations at a power plant during a thunderstorm in February this year. Those four detectors were located 0.5–1.7 km away from the place of the discharges, and they simultaneously recorded an intense radiation lasting for ∼200 ms which was analysed, along with the sub-second decaying radiation:

From the pre-paper at arxiv:

Page 2:
...The subsequent initial burst quickly subsided with an exponential decay constant of 40–60 ms, followed by a prolonged line emission at ∼0.511 MeV, lasting for a minute. The observed decay timescale and spectral cutoff [see figures at pg.17, 18, 19] at ∼10 MeV of the initial emission are well explained with deexcitation gamma rays from the nuclei excited by neutron capture...



Image

Figure 3: from Page 17
Count-rate histories during the annihilation signal. a, b, The gradient coloured maps show the detected counts in a unit time and energy (counts/s MeV) on the two-dimensional histograms of time (abscissa, 1-s binning) and energy (ordinate) for the detectors A (panel a) and D (b). The horizontal white dashed-line indicates 0.511 MeV. The dominant backgrounds above and below 3 MeV are cosmic-ray induced components and radiation from environmental radioactive nuclei, respectively.



Image

Figure 4: from Pages 18/19
Gamma-ray spectra during the prolonged annihilation signal. Panels a and b are for the detectors A and D, respectively. The background is subtracted from the same time span of Fig. 2. The detector response is inclusive. The error bars are in ±1σ. See the panels c and d in Fig. 3 for the event-accumulating time regions for the detectors A and D, respectively. Red lines show the best-fitting empirical models consisting of a Gaussian line profile plus a power-law continuum, the latter of which represents the Compton scattering component from the former (see also Methods “Positrons and annihilation” for a physically-based model).

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Re: HOT! CONFIRMED! Photonuclear reactions by lightning

Unread postby Webbman » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:25 pm

did you ever think that an electron simply shape changes into a gamma emission and that no mythical positron is required?

wouldn't that be the simplest explanation?
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Re: HOT! CONFIRMED! Photonuclear reactions by lightning

Unread postby FS3 » Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:01 am

Webbman wrote:did you ever think that an electron simply shape changes into a gamma emission and that no mythical positron is required?

wouldn't that be the simplest explanation?


The simpliest explanation ist that what Wal suggested in the case of Venus:

Transmutation of N2 to CO by exchange of the Protons from the N:
C ←(-) N (+)→ O

The nuclear energy difference between the N and CO2-mlecule is minimal…

At Venus it seems that the Fe from the surface acts as intermediate as the CO interacts in the hot environment with water vapour and becomes CO2. Similar as it is used in steel industrie's coke plants for extracting Hydrogen from Water. That H dissipates into the Venus atmosphere and gets "lost" in space.

B.t.w., that's why there's so many Deuterium in the Venusian atmosphere.

Louis Kervran explained this about 100 years ago.

I just linked that paper to demonstrate that there finally is now "scientific proof" of what has been clear for us all the time.
:lol: :ugeek:

The analysis of what really happens is another point. Me too thinks that the positron-explanition isn't the final word.

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Re: HOT! CONFIRMED! Photonuclear reactions by lightning

Unread postby CharlesChandler » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:14 pm

Webbman wrote:It's no surprise that lightning produces light spectra in different wavelengths including gamma.

Actually, this needs explaining. The only things that can vibrate fast enough to produce gamma rays are the protons within the nuclei of atoms. So gamma rays are evidence of nuclear reactions (fission and/or fusion), where the loss or gain of a proton disrupts the balance between the electric & strong nuclear forces within the nuclei, resulting in extremely rapid oscillations. Normally, electric currents, in solid conductors or in discharge channels through gases such as the atmosphere, don't generate gamma rays. There are a variety of types of emission mechanisms in lightning, including electron uptake, Bremsstrahlung and synchrotron radiation, etc. But none of those are gamma rays. So something has to initiate nuclear events, before there will be gamma rays to initiate other nuclear events, such as the chain reactions described in the cited paper.

The likeliest candidate for the first nuclear event is relativistic electrons slamming into stationary atomic nuclei at the ends of the stepped leaders. This will instantaneously create the temperatures and pressures necessary for nuclear events. Concentrations of fusion by-products, such as greater CNO abundances, as well as free neutrons (which decay within 15 minutes outside of an atomic nucleus), have been detected, here on Earth as well as after arc discharges on the surface of the Sun.

No need for positrons. ;)
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