Electric Comets

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Comet Siding Spring Caused Chaos at Mars

Unread postby willendure » Fri Mar 18, 2016 3:20 am

D_Archer wrote:
willendure wrote:The question that comes to my mind is, if it has been a planet with a stronger magnetic field, would the interaction have been a more or less violent one?


With Earth the repulsion would be greater (due to strong mag field) which would in turn result in less "chaos" because the asteroid could not affect our atmosphere in the same was as Mars's atmosphere was now.


That was my initial thought, but I am not so sure. Yes, the earth's magnetosphere would not be put into such a chaotic state, I agree, as it is much stronger and would be able to withstand the influence of the comet.

I am wondering if such an interaction would be a more energetic and violent event. The comet interacting with Mars' weak field, is like a lorry driving through a pile of dried leaves on the road and scattering them. The comet interacting with Earth's much stronger field might be like two lorries colliding. The two stronger magnetic fields would be squashed up against each other, containing much more energy - would that then be released as a big current flow, perhaps resulting in mega lightning, or at least some kind of super aurora effect?
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Re: Comet Siding Spring Caused Chaos at Mars

Unread postby comingfrom » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:09 am

In my mind, I tossed a little magnet in the air, and it passed close by a big ball bearing, which someone else tossed (so it had its own momentum). Then I tossed my little magnet so that it passed by an even bigger, and magnetized, ball bearing.

My mind certainly expects a bigger reaction in the "Earth" toss, given similar distance. My magnet is going to steer more wildly. It might even get attracted and flare up in the atmosphere. Or it might be repulsed away, depending on the alignments of the fields.

As it turned out, the magnet just wobbled a bit, and a small spark came out of the magnetized ball bearing. The spectacle was hardly noticed by the inhabitants of the ball bearing. Unlike the inhabitants of the smaller ball bearing, who had a particularly nasty dust storm that year.

End of experiment.

~Paul
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Tailess "Manx" Comet

Unread postby Frantic » Sun May 01, 2016 8:32 am

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-space-comet-idUSKCN0XQ2HZ

http://www.wsj.com/video/scientists-find-mysterious-tailless-manx-comet/EF531DB7-5AA2-4CF0-B748-195C9BEA81DC.html

Since the EU does not use ice sublimation, what would be the explanation between this tailless comet and comets with tails?
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Re: Tailess "Manx" Comet

Unread postby Metryq » Mon May 02, 2016 2:42 am

Perhaps "S3" is discharging, though not enough to produce a visible tail. One of the basic concepts of EU is that everything is connected, while mainstream astrophysics views everything as isolated (e.g. the Sun's power is completely internal, or spectra from comets show water so they must be made of ice). This occurred to me while watching a documentary about sprites, which were described as rare and fleeting. Suppose they're happening all the time (as per the EU model), only we simply do not see it?

But C/2014 S3 was dark and virtually tailless

"Virtually" tailless? Does that mean it it had some sort of discharge? That's the problem with sketchy science "journalism" like this. It often seems to be written to sell an idea and discount anything suggesting some other possibility. There are the stock phrases, for one. All together now: "may offer clues into long-standing questions about the solar system's formation and evolution."

I'd have to research what else is known about S3 to get a better picture.
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Re: Tailess "Manx" Comet

Unread postby willendure » Mon May 02, 2016 2:05 pm

It could be that the composition of this comet is such that material is not so easily stripped from its surface by the solar "wind". Maybe its pretty much a solid lump of iron.
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Comet Erosion?

Unread postby perpetual motion » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:03 pm

https://phys.org/news/2016-09-descent-i ... .html#nRlv

I myself would not trust much of the mainstream information from this site.

And when did comets start to have erosion on the surface? Erosion on a comet, come on, they should
be able to imagine far more than that. Also, according to my eye sight, this particular one is
made up of lava, so much for their icy dirt balls.
Then also, how did a comet become lava?
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Re: Comet Erosion?

Unread postby comingfrom » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:42 pm

Thank you, pm.
I think you mean basalt, or igneous rock, which is lava cooled down.
Lava is molten rock.

It surprises me to see great boulders lying around on the surface.
I expected a layer of dust.
How much gravity does a comet have?

Erosion on comets would be caused electrically, the evacuated material forming the tail, or tails.
I imagine the process erodes the looser material around the boulders while they are still in the escarpment, freeing the boulders to gently fall down to the plain.

Paul
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Re: Comet Erosion?

Unread postby webolife » Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:55 pm

The erosive agent [from terrestrial analogs] that is evident in the comet photos is basically gravitational mass movement, forming the talus at the base of the sharp precipices. There does seem to be a coating of dust over everything, so the comet's electrical environment has done its work.
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Re: Comet Erosion?

Unread postby LaSuisse1 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:55 am

webolife wrote:The erosive agent [from terrestrial analogs] that is evident in the comet photos is basically gravitational mass movement, forming the talus at the base of the sharp precipices. There does seem to be a coating of dust over everything, so the comet's electrical environment has done its work.


What 'electrical' environment would this be? Please point me to the results from various instruments that would detect such things. It sounds like you are making things up here.
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Re: Comet Erosion?

Unread postby seasmith » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:52 am

LaSuisse1, There were three ion detectors on the Rosetta probe, if i recall correctly, and results are still be analyzed and dribbled (slowly) out.

eg:
Abstract
Context. On 20 January 2015 the Rosetta spacecraft was at a heliocentric distance of 2.5 AU, accompanying comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko on its journey toward the Sun. The Ion Composition Analyser (RPC-ICA), other instruments of the Rosetta Plasma Consortium, and the ROSINA instrument made observations relevant to the generation of plasma waves in the cometary environment.

http://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/abs/20 ... 01-16.html

On approach:
http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2015/pdf/2312.pdf

Study this and then google for testing results:
http://sci.esa.int/rosetta/35061-instru ... ongid=1647
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Re: Comet Erosion?

Unread postby webolife » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:32 am

LaSuisse1 wrote:
webolife wrote:The erosive agent [from terrestrial analogs] that is evident in the comet photos is basically gravitational mass movement, forming the talus at the base of the sharp precipices. There does seem to be a coating of dust over everything, so the comet's electrical environment has done its work.


What 'electrical' environment would this be? Please point me to the results from various instruments that would detect such things. It sounds like you are making things up here.


I agree :D
Sorry. I had read the same abstract that Seasmith linked above, his second link:
http://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2015/pdf/2312.pdf

So the local ionizaton of the comet is interacting with the solar "atmosphere" [ie. solar wind]...
My thinking was that this would be a likely cause of the light dusting evident in the surface photos.
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Re: Comet Erosion?

Unread postby GaryN » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:42 pm

Image
NavCam image taken on 10 July 2015 at 156.58 km far from the 67P nucleus. The spatial scale of the image is 15.81 m/pixel. The white arrow shows the outburst caused by the Aswan cliff collapse (in shadow here). Credit: ESA/Rosetta/NavCam – CC BY-SA IGO 3.0

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-03-rosetta-c ... e.html#jCp
So they think this is dust kicked off by the collapse of the Aswan cliff, and this is reflected sunlight? Nobody seems to know what the NavCam actually 'sees', but I suspect a Lyman Alpha emission of hydrogen, in which case this is probably produced in an electron beam, the beam also being responsible for the collapse, and if the NAC was seeing IR, then the white area identified as ice may have been a slightly warmer area heated by the beam.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Comet Erosion?

Unread postby LaSuisse1 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:05 pm

I'm sorry, but the above comments make no scientific sense whatsoever. It is well known that the solar wind is not reaching the comet nucleus as the outgassing increases. It cannot cause any erosion. The only 'plasma' that is found for many months close to the comet is of cometary origin. That is, from the sublimated ices, due to mainly photoionization. It is vastly outnumbered by cometary neutrals, such as H2O and CO2. In Oktober 2015 Rosetta travelled to 1500km in the sunward direction. It did not encounter the solar wind. It was missing from the sensors for around 10 months. So solar wind interaction cannot be called upon to explain anything at this time. And it certainly cannot explain the dust, which has been seen to be due to deposition from elsewhere on the comet due to outgassing. And the outburst of in the image certainly cannot be from lyman-alpha, it is sunlight from dust. The instruments would see such a thing over a period two years. The navcam only sees in optical light, and that image is highly stretched. And I have no idea what is meant by 'an electron beam'! Where did it come from, and how did it evade the instruments?
As for the ice patch; it is ice. It is spectroscopically resolved as ice. Not during this investigation, but in previous papers looking at the debris at the feet of cliffs. This is not a guess, or an assumption. It is ice.
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Re: Comet Erosion?

Unread postby comingfrom » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:07 pm

Thank you LaSuisse1.
So it is photon bombardment, that caused the cliff to collapse, and causes the outgassing, and ionization.
And maybe that also explains the formation and angles of the dust rays.
~Paul
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Re: Comet Erosion?

Unread postby LaSuisse1 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:41 pm

comingfrom wrote:Thank you LaSuisse1.
So it is photon bombardment, that caused the cliff to collapse, and causes the outgassing, and ionization.
And maybe that also explains the formation and angles of the dust rays.
~Paul


I have precisely no idea what you mean by photon bombardment! The cliff collapses due to thermal stress. Contraction and expansion over and over. Due to heat. The temperature swings are large, and immediate. It happens on Earth as well, but you do not get the huge swings in temperature as at a comet. When it collapses a load of dust is released, and ice may be exposed. Rosetta was in the way of one of these events in February 2016. First they detect the H2O, and then they detect the dust. This is normal, as the gas expands at ~600 m/s, and the dust at a much slower rate. So we know that the dust is dust, and not Lyman-a (although I think you meant the Balmer series as that is visible to our eyes. However, it requires neutral H, because the transition that causes it is due to the de-excitation of the electron from n>3 to n=2).
And we know that the H2O is H2O, as it is detected by MIRO in the sub-mm range, at ~557 GHz.

There is also no chance that the bright spots you mention are 'hot'. One of the links I left in the other thread shows temperature maps of where ice was detected. It is colder. Not surprisingly.
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