An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:03 pm

Webolife,
I was thinking of this from RM's post:
As ‘new’ plastic crust emerges at Mid Ocean Ridges (MOR) it solidifies and pushes the pre-existing oceanic plate away from the MOR.
I'm assuming it emerges from below and therefore moves vertically (upwards). I then struggle to see where the horizontal/lateral movement comes from. Why doesn't the 'new plastic crust' just extrude upwards? Surely the water would offer less resistance than the solid rock plates?

I wasn't thinking of mountains, just what happens at the locality of these ridges. I personally see mountains formed by the ground rippling, like a sheet when you are making the bed or a table-cloth.
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Re: An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Unread postby seasmith » Wed Feb 01, 2017 2:09 pm

Image

GC,
The hottest seafloor temperatures are fond at the mid-ocean ridges, while coolest temps are where the "convective flows" meet the continental edges.
So, according to Current Theory, the 'plastic crust' is carried along by the hot asthenosphere below it;
spreading away from where the magma is rising up between the ridges.

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/geology/tecmech.html

No body really knows for sure exactly how all this heat is constantly regenerated in the deep earth.
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Re: An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:29 pm

I don't know if I'm confusing two things here. I'm certainly confused, that is the only certainty. I remember watching a documentary some years ago about the creatures that live at these vents in the sea floor where magma was oozing out. These vents were only a matter of a few feet wide. Is this something completely different?

I think I'll stick to my ancient metaphysics, it's far simpler. :?
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Re: An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Unread postby webolife » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:09 pm

GC,
You're good at ancient metaphysics! Stick to that! Meanwhile keep asking questions. :)
Often I guess we assume that a person interested in this thread probably has some background or research behind them, so we give these short, less than explanatory answers as "reminders" perhaps of what they should already "know"...
So here's a more complete answer:
Seasmith provided you with a [not too comprehensive] illustration that RM would refer to as a cartoon of seafloor spreading. There are lots better "cartoons" than that, and Wikipedia has a pretty comprehensive write-up on "Mid-Ocean Ridge" that will help you. I'll paraphrase some main ideas here: What was known as the mid-ocean ridge or rift after it was encountered during the laying of transatlantic cables back in the 19th C. became understood more as a "spreading" zone in the late 1960s with the discovery of many bands of somewhat magnetic striping symmetrically along both sides of it. This has been given as evidence, further verified by GPS measurements [and other survey data] of continental movements away from it, eg. that the Americas are moving west and Europe and Africa are moving east with respect to the rift. (Wegener explained this in his original development of the theory in 1912; without sufficient survey data to confirm it, his idea was mostly dismissed.) Subsequently the ridge was found to extend globally, however without the symmetrically arranged coastlines running to the east and west of it as in the Atlantic. What has been understood and repeatedly confirmed for over a century is that the mid-ocean ridges are zones of extrusive and seismic activity. Look at the Island of Iceland, a continually erupting region where the Mid-Atlantic Ridge has done just what you said, extruding itself upward out of the ocean. The rift extends across the middle of the island where it may be plainly seen as just that, an opening in the earth's crust. See Wiki for more.

That's standard understanding; here's some webolife:
The magnetic striping has been given as evidence for magnetic field reversals in earth history, but there are other interpretations that I think are more obvious from the standpoint of a catastrophist. First it must be understood that while the ferrous crystals in basalts along the ridge are oriented largely in one [northish] direction or the other [southish], in a somewhat alternating fashion as you measure away from the ridge either to the east or west, there is a significant range of orientations that must be averaged out to come to the conclusion of "reversal". Since these "stripes" demark different flows in a reasonably symmetric manner "right" and "left" of the ridges, it is understood that the flows represent recurring eruptions over time that flowed away from the rift zone. In the gradualist view, the ferrous minerals aligned as the basalt hardened, as natural and synthetic magnets are known to do, freezing the crystals into their positions. Millenia or eons later new flows did the same with the "new" magnetic field vectors frozen in their "reversed" orientations. This happened dozens of times. Age dating the flows is somewhat problematic but in general it can be shown the flows further away from the rift are older than flows near the rift. That is a horizontal distribution of age which has more than one interpretation, but the simplest is that the ocean crust has moved [is moving] away from the ridge over time, as new material is being added at the rift. Now if those flows were as occasional and infrequent and that movement was as slow as observed today, then the stripes indicate a series of large scale shifts ["reversals"] in the earth's magnetic field. But what if it happened at a much greater rate in the past? Picture bands of lava pouring out into the inwashing seas that filled the separating continents. They begin to cool almost immediately but not evenly, so the ferrous orientations are not entirely set. Not long afterward more bands of lava flow out over and "behind" the previous bands. The crystal orientations of the new material now have the influence of the earth's magnetic field, but also the influence of the previously magnetized basalt flows. Naturally heads will orient toward tails and tails toward heads [NS and SN] causing the flows to appear "reversed" [very roughly of course]. In this scenario the magnetic striping doesn't have time to react to some age long shift in the earth's field, but still shows "reversal" due to the orientation of the magnetic material it is contacting. Since the rift zones are not in the center of the other ocean basins but toward a side, even extending in some places over onto continental crust [as in the San Andreas fault in California], that tends to play against the "expanding earth" hypothesis as I see it. More significantly the continental drift away from the spread centers put into play the bulldozing of the continents at their leading edges as they pushed against the Pacific Ocean crust, resulting in the lifting of the plateaus, and characteristic boundary ranges and island arcs and trenches. That this happened as a "single" worldwide phenomenon is evidenced I believe by the globally interconnected system of the mountains and ridge zones that we observe.
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Re: An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:44 pm

The plot thickens. Wow, thanks, it will take me a day or two to digest that.
Initial thoughts: The curse of catastrophism is here again - timescale: did it creep or did it leap? Also what if there is more than one cause?

I'd had a quick look at a couple of websites about sea floor spreading just before Seasmith posted. I don't really understand most of the terminology used. I can muddle through life with yin, yang and the four elements (I've got all their albums).
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Re: An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Unread postby webolife » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:06 pm

Catastrophism is a curse for you?
Yin, Yang, and the Four Elements... didn't they have a song in the 60's called, "Blow It My Way"?? :twisted:
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Re: An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Unread postby moses » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:44 pm

I think that the Atlantic ridge was formed at a different time and used different methods to the Pacific seaboard. The Atlantic ridge looks perfectly EDM, whilst the other seems certain to have formed at the same time as the Rockies. Thus some sort of sideways movement due to lifting or subsidence or a retardation of the American continent.

So the Atlantic ridge formed at the same time as a section of the 'geological column' as well as the forming of the asteroids. Whereas this eastern edge of the 'ring of fire' would have formed at the same time as the mountains when a planet interacted with Earth after the end of the Atlantic EDM (the Velikovsky period).

Cheers,
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Re: An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Unread postby kiwi » Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:26 pm

Hi GC 8-)

Surely the water would offer less resistance than the solid rock plates?


If the term "plastic" is thought the best description maybe it could extend to "hydro-phyllic" ... so a situation of electrical repulsion ala Gerald Pollack may be at play instead? :ugeek:
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Re: An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:07 pm

kiwi wrote:Hi GC 8-)

Surely the water would offer less resistance than the solid rock plates?


If the term "plastic" is thought the best description maybe it could extend to "hydro-phyllic" ... so a situation of electrical repulsion ala Gerald Pollack may be at play instead? :ugeek:

Is that available in English? :? ;) I'm more familiar with 'ithyphallic'.
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Re: An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Unread postby kiwi » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:32 pm

Is that available in English? :? ;)


Why yes! .. yes it is! :D :arrow:

Light as we know it may be an issue at ~3000m plus ... but?

snip ....This light-induced charge separation resembles the first steps of photosynthesis. Indeed, this light-induced action would seem relevant not only for photosynthetic processes, but also for all realms of nature involving water and interfaces......

http://faculty.washington.edu/ghp/resea ... r-science/


And this vid goes is a good intro to the mechanism(s) .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q33KyLkP_Rg&t=2082s

Cheers GC
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Re: An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Unread postby webolife » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:07 pm

Whoa, can we get a connection between Pollacks EZ water and and the thread topic?
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Re: An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Unread postby kiwi » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:38 pm

webolife wrote:Whoa, can we get a connection between Pollacks EZ water and and the thread topic?


Just another form of charge separation isnt it? .... and Its not Pollacks "anything" Web ... its a boundary interface scenario that preceeds Pollacks research by quite some years... Grey Cloud wondered why a denser material did not push on up and peak into a less dense medium ... and the stuff "fresh out the oven" seeping from the ocean floor may be closer to a psuedo-plastic material than "rock" as we know it? ... and there would be IR radiation available also radiating from beneath and out through the Ocean floor?
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Re: An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:50 pm

This ocean floor stuff is too deep for me.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
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Re: An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Unread postby Robertus Maximus » Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:35 am

webolife wrote:
Robertus Maximus wrote:Yet more evidence of continental crust found in the ocean basins- applying Occam’s razor which is more plausible- complex Plate Tectonic scenarios or simple subsidence?
http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14086

Reread that article, RM. It is about the finding of continental crust [specifically zircons] underlying lavas not on the seafloor but rather on the island of Mauritius; further that these formations are identifiable with Madagascar 700 km to the west; and that they show a link between Africa and India that confirms the two landmasses were once joined... drift, not subsidence.

The link between Madagascar and India is reconstructed with an imaginary land- Mauritia. Past reconstructions depend on such imaginary lands Pangaea, Pannotia, Rodinia etc. are testament to geologists’ imagination.

The fact remains, evidence of continental crust is found where there should be none. Continental material is considered to have been recycled through deep mantle convection- how likely is this? Continental crust was originally thought to ‘float’ over the denser oceanic crust and upper mantle, now ‘lost continents’ are being recycled in the mantle. Over the past 50 years evidence that would subduct the theory has been woven into its fabric. From simple beginnings the plate tectonic paradigm, in the light of new evidence, has grown increasingly complex as geologists continue to add more and more epicycles, error is better than confusion.
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Re: An Alternative to Plate and Expansion Tectonics

Unread postby webolife » Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:41 pm

RM,

Robertus Maximus wrote:The link between Madagascar and India is reconstructed with an imaginary land- Mauritia. Past reconstructions depend on such imaginary lands Pangaea, Pannotia, Rodinia etc. are testament to geologists’ imagination.


I think you are still misreading the information.
Mauritius is not imaginary, it is a volcanic island east of Madagascar. The discovery of zircons [intrusive igneous formations that form the core of continental masses] beneath the lava surface is an indicator that the island was previously connected to a continent. The further identification of its continental bedrocks with those of
Madagascar is a very strong indicator of the two islands having once been joined; and further evidence of similarities with the African continent and Indian subcontinent would have jump-started the continental drift theory if it hadn't already been formulated.

Robertus Maximus wrote:The fact remains, evidence of continental crust is found where there should be none. Continental material is considered to have been recycled through deep mantle convection- how likely is this? Continental crust was originally thought to ‘float’ over the denser oceanic crust and upper mantle, now ‘lost continents’ are being recycled in the mantle. Over the past 50 years evidence that would subduct the theory has been woven into its fabric. From simple beginnings the plate tectonic paradigm, in the light of new evidence, has grown increasingly complex as geologists continue to add more and more epicycles, error is better than confusion.


Quite contrarily, the finding of continental crust on Mauritius is exactly what one would expect. The rest of your paragraph is simply not founded. What "epicycles" are you referring to? What evidence against continental drift are you reading about, and who are the researchers presenting it? I have been studying the continental drift theory since the publication of magnetic striping at the mid-ocean rifts in 1970, and am not aware of any controverting evidence for the concept of seafloor spreading. Alternate theories galore, and I have one of my own, but what evidence can you cite?
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