Ceres!

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby viscount aero » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:49 am

nick c wrote:The Dawn probe should be arriving at Ceres in a few days. This is going to be very interesting.
Something that has been kind of hinted at in this discussion but not directly addressed is - why is Ceres not a cold, dead, inactive mini world?
This same question has been asked about moons of the giant planets, but mainstream attributes their activity to tidal forces. There is no large planetary body near Ceres, so why is it active if it has been in this distant position (from the Sun) for billions of years.


:idea: :shock:

Great point! This is another "anomaly" that cannot be explained away. To my knowledge they found evidence years ago for active plume activity on Ceres. Where are the Jovian planetary tidal forces causing it?
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Rossim » Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:59 am

Bomb20 wrote:and I wonder if the celestial body is emitting gas and the latter becomes ionized under the influence of electric currents and is causing a glow discharge.

I think we should keep in mind all electric opportunities and not only the most spectacular.


What you described is the mainstream (and refuted) model of cometary phenomena, in which hidden ices sublimate and that gas becomes ionized via photodissociation. You substitute photodissociation with "influence of electric currents" which is just as vague. I believe it's a discharge in the center of the crater and electrostatic sculpting of its rim.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Metryq » Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:51 pm

nick c wrote:This same question has been asked about moons of the giant planets, but mainstream attributes their activity to tidal forces. There is no large planetary body near Ceres, so why is it active if it has been in this distant position (from the Sun) for billions of years.

Dark Matter tidal kneading! And those hexagonal craters are merely an image artifact from low data rate error correction reducing the resolution of the images! Yeah, that's it. The craters are really round, but the low poly-count images make them look hexagonal.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby viscount aero » Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:10 pm

Metryq wrote:
nick c wrote:This same question has been asked about moons of the giant planets, but mainstream attributes their activity to tidal forces. There is no large planetary body near Ceres, so why is it active if it has been in this distant position (from the Sun) for billions of years.

Dark Matter tidal kneading! And those hexagonal craters are merely an image artifact from low data rate error correction reducing the resolution of the images! Yeah, that's it. The craters are really round, but the low poly-count images make them look hexagonal.

"tidal kneading" is what Michio Kaku says explains Enceladus.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Metryq » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:07 pm

On a sci-fi forum some of the members are predicting that the bright spots are "cryovolcanoes." Has there been a single instance of a confirmed "cryovolcano," or it this merely a popular band-aid, like black holes?
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby viscount aero » Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:08 pm

Metryq wrote:On a sci-fi forum some of the members are predicting that the bright spots are "cryovolcanoes." Has there been a single instance of a confirmed "cryovolcano," or it this merely a popular band-aid, like black holes?


It's the latter.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Bomb20 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:56 am

What you described is the mainstream (and refuted) model of cometary phenomena, in which hidden ices sublimate and that gas becomes ionized via photodissociation. You substitute photodissociation with "influence of electric currents" which is just as vague. I believe it's a discharge in the center of the crater and electrostatic sculpting of its rim.


Rossim, please, don´t put opinions and ideas under my belt which I did not suggest or do not share. You totally misinterpreted my post. I repeat: I think we should keep in mind all electric opportunities and not only the most spectacular. This includes also your equally vague and nebulous „believe“ in electrostatic sculpting of crater rims.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Metryq » Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:34 am

viscount aero wrote:
Metryq wrote:On a sci-fi forum some of the members are predicting that the bright spots are "cryovolcanoes." Has there been a single instance of a confirmed "cryovolcano," or it this merely a popular band-aid, like black holes?


It's the latter.

While looking up "cryovolcano" on Wikipedia—a standard bearer for mainstream ideas, I know—I found this:

The energy required to melt ices and produce cryovolcanoes usually comes from tidal friction. It has also been suggested that translucent deposits of frozen materials could create a sub-surface greenhouse effect that would accumulate the required heat.

A subsurface greenhouse effect? That's a new one on me. At least it affords a "roof" to prevent the circulation of air, like an actual greenhouse. Does that idea sound a little bit odd to anyone else?

EDIT:

While poking around the Web, I've been finding (so far) that all alleged "cyrovolcanoes" are near polar regions. Coincidence? The heat is always attributed to tidal kneading, or sunlight.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby viscount aero » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:15 am

Metryq wrote:
viscount aero wrote:
Metryq wrote:On a sci-fi forum some of the members are predicting that the bright spots are "cryovolcanoes." Has there been a single instance of a confirmed "cryovolcano," or it this merely a popular band-aid, like black holes?


It's the latter.

While looking up "cryovolcano" on Wikipedia—a standard bearer for mainstream ideas, I know—I found this:

The energy required to melt ices and produce cryovolcanoes usually comes from tidal friction. It has also been suggested that translucent deposits of frozen materials could create a sub-surface greenhouse effect that would accumulate the required heat.

A subsurface greenhouse effect? That's a new one on me. At least it affords a "roof" to prevent the circulation of air, like an actual greenhouse. Does that idea sound a little bit odd to anyone else?

EDIT:

While poking around the Web, I've been finding (so far) that all alleged "cyrovolcanoes" are near polar regions. Coincidence? The heat is always attributed to tidal kneading, or sunlight.


"Cryovolcanoes" are a deus ex machina akin to an "anti-gravity machine" used in sci-fi movies.

The establishment has a list of deus ex machina in order to help fill in the big gaps:

• big bang
• inflation
• expansion and acceleration
• gravitational collapse
• singularity
• crustal fracturing upon impact
• icy dirtball
• seeding of Earth's oceans
• subsurface ice sublimation
• tidal kneading
• hot gases
• nebular collapse
• core accretion
• cryovolcanoes


There are more but these stand out for me :ugeek:
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby viscount aero » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:18 am

Here is the first arrival press conference:

Dawn Ceres Arrival
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJr-pctUYdw
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby viscount aero » Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:56 am

FWD the above video to 26:00 and begin listening.

They mention Ceres' "primordial ocean" (that it was a water planet in the past but is now dry). They equate Ceres with how Enceladus used to be as well. Questions are asked about how could a liquid ocean exist at that distance and the panel replies with "salt" :shock:

To this, a trend that I'm seeing between guesstimating any given celestial body's material composition lies in density readings. Ceres has been determined, like Comet 67P, to be very "light" in density. Whenever this light density reading is surmised the scientists default to water ice "mantles." This is where the entire "dirty snowball" idea keeps its place in science because no other conclusion is taken seriously. Listen to the above JPL press conference and this ethos appears throughout the testimony. What is revealed is that they think of Ceres in the same way they do about Rosetta/67P data (volatiles, water ice)--that Ceres is a rocky world with an "ice mantle." Sublimation is mentioned. It's as if they're talking about a comet. They also allude to these primordial objects as being the "building blocks" that created "Earth's oceans." So they are singing the same song every time.

At 32:00 they begin talking about the bright spots visible in the dark. At 35:12 they say that the bright spots darken as they disappear into the night side.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby viscount aero » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:06 pm

In mentioning "differentiation" in context of ice mantles, it goes unexplained how a lighter material, water and ice, would differentiate below regolith and rock, a heavier material. Differentiation would not do this. It would bring all of the lighter material to the top. The press conference is, at times, fraught with conflicting ideas mentioned in the same sentences. Watch the whole thing if you have time. See if you can catch these.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Metryq » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:35 pm

Thanks, Viscount Aero. I've downloaded the video and will be watching it later.

The others on the sci-fi forum are staunchly defending the cryovolcano idea, pointing out that the cryovolcano on Enceladus is "well documented" by Voyager II. As I recall, volcanoes on Io were also "well documented" by one of the Voyagers, and later probes found them moving around—hard to imagine how a subsurface vent could do that. I imagine this "well documentation" also shows abundant water, but we know from dry comets that this can be deceptive.

If Dawn finds cryovolcanoes on Ceres—great. At least the idea won't be speculative anymore. But I want to see the actual vent, not just the plumes "that seeded Earth's oceans."
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby viscount aero » Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:53 pm

Metryq wrote:Thanks, Viscount Aero. I've downloaded the video and will be watching it later.

The others on the sci-fi forum are staunchly defending the cryovolcano idea, pointing out that the cryovolcano on Enceladus is "well documented" by Voyager II. As I recall, volcanoes on Io were also "well documented" by one of the Voyagers, and later probes found them moving around—hard to imagine how a subsurface vent could do that. I imagine this "well documentation" also shows abundant water, but we know from dry comets that this can be deceptive.

If Dawn finds cryovolcanoes on Ceres—great. At least the idea won't be speculative anymore. But I want to see the actual vent, not just the plumes "that seeded Earth's oceans."


Tell them on sci-fi that JPL doesn't think Ceres has cryovolancoes per the press conference. Start watching just before 25:00 and she denies they are such things because thus far there is no evidence for a "geologic' mountain "built up" (JPL's words not mine) :lol: To add, that also falsifies such things on Enceladus. There are no volcanic "mountains" on either body. It's funny how the establishment will invent a theory (cryovulcanism) then debunk aspects of the theory within their own beliefs about what is "allowed" in the fantasy they imagine.

They debunked their own fantasy of "seeding Earth's oceans" for 67P, too, noting the wrong flavor of water detected. Yet they keep the "seeding" theory intact because 67P is only "1 comet" and the other millions of them may have indeed "seeded the oceans." That is the same song and dance we're now hearing about Ceres. JPL thinks all of these rocky bodies in the asteroid and "Kuiper Belt" are all responsible for carrying water everywhere.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby mattwood » Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:46 am

The Ceres images have me on the edge of my seat.
I'm watching the animation of the planetary rotation and I see that the lights seem to continue well into the termination before vanishing - so good-bye reflecting ice/metal theory?!
Still, I've been waiting for some substantial mention from the Thunderbolts team about this whole thing but have seen nothing.
I know that it would be foolish to jump the gun on what these bright spots are - and I wouldn't want (or expect) rampant speculation from the team - but if this phenom is electrical discharge, actual visual spark erosion taking place inside of a crater... and the orbiter images it in action... it would be an understatement to think this could be a big push forward for the EU theory... it could be public / scientific confirmation of charge in space.
Is there any word on whether the Thunderbolts team will publish their take on this before long?
I would hope something is in the pipeline NOW.
If there is ample evidence of electrical discharge - ALL of the mainstream will be scrambling for explanations - I hope the TB team is in the process of building a "Welcome to the Electric Universe" video door mat.
Everyone and their brother might be coming over for a visit in the next few days/weeks.

Brand new member, first post here at the forums.
What an exciting time.
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