Ceres!

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Metryq » Sun Feb 08, 2015 5:19 am

viscount aero wrote:To my knowledge, nobody is necessarily anti-math in the EU community.

+1

Math, yes. Numerology, no.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Xuxalina Rihhia » Sun Feb 08, 2015 3:40 pm

Here's another picture made up of six stacked and realigned images.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby willendure » Wed Feb 18, 2015 7:50 am

Getting closer...

Image

Personally, I think the flickering white spot which "reflects more sunlight than its surroundings", is some stranded aliens with a mirror signalling SOS, as we were taught in boy scouts. They stopped to chip off some ice when their water supplies were running low and couldn't take off again due to a fault with the ole' flying saucer.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby willendure » Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:28 am

Look at the crater centre bottom of the left hand image. Its still a little hard to see clearly, but that does look fairly hexagon shaped to me.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby paladin17 » Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:54 am

I'm doing a little literature review on what's known about Ceres up until the Dawn arrival.
What I've found mostly is a prevalent idea of a "subsurface ice mantle", or even "subsurface ocean". What kind of evidence there is on this subject:
1) Herschel telescope have detected water there;
2) those bright spots - they could be simply holes leading to this icy body underneath;
3) comparatively small amount and degree of cratering - supposedly because craters can "relax" over time into more smooth terrain due to a softer icy body below the surface (in contrast to hard rocks like on Vesta);
4) absence of a related asteroid family (there should have been plenty of Ceres-family asteroids, like there are lots of Vesta- or Pallas-family ones, yet there seemingly are none) - some people state that this is because the "snow line" is at 3 AU (which is farther out from the Sun than Ceres' orbit), so the pieces of ice that might have been removed from Ceres simply evaporated in a dirty-snowball fashion, thus no family was formed.

I think the EU version of this would be like: there is no subsurface ice mantle (why would there be any?). And in particular:
1) this is a "starwater" mechanism (cometary-like water production from solar wind);
2) those are simply the discharge centers (maybe due to the lower electron affinity, or some specific geometry of the terrain etc.);
3) probably due to the history of the object; I'm not sure whether we should consider it as being born from a rocky planet (like in the cometary case, or for other asteroids), since it is quite big; it could have been born out of one of the giants, though;
4) I'm not sure; probably goes in pair with 3) - since not a big amount of material was removed during a history of the body's formation, so there are not many related objects. The catastrophic epoch kind of spared our main-belt beauty. Also orbital stability considerations should be taken into account: maybe Ceres simply was too large for its offspring to actually leave etc.

What's your thoughts on this, anyone?
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Rossim » Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:31 am

paladin17 wrote:What's your thoughts on this, anyone?


I agree with most of what you said. Mainstream sites frequently used "flickering" to describe the white spots so I'm hoping there's evidence of an actual discharge. In the most recent images, the upper spot of the right view looks a bit more three dimensional than the others, which appear to be the craters themselves.

What observations of Ceres do you think would differentiate the EU view from the standard model?
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Xuxalina Rihhia » Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:15 pm

Here is one of the latest pics of Ceres; apparently one bright spot has now been revealed to be two. I wonder if they might be elecrical discharge arcs. The twin "arcs" in the crater sure look like electrical arcs by now.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Rossim » Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:44 pm

Who woulda thought that observations of Ceres might end up being the holy grail for electrical machining theory?
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby viscount aero » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:51 am

Rossim wrote:Who woulda thought that observations of Ceres might end up being the holy grail for electrical machining theory?


Perhaps yes. I'd like to see the near orbit, hi-def images once Dawn goes into orbit. This may prove very interesting beyond expectations. The little planets seem extremely interesting worlds. Very complex.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby willendure » Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:58 am

Xuxalina Rihhia wrote:Here is one of the latest pics of Ceres; apparently one bright spot has now been revealed to be two. I wonder if they might be elecrical discharge arcs. The twin "arcs" in the crater sure look like electrical arcs by now.


A Hexagonal crater (I think a different one to the last one I pointed out) just below and to the right of the crater with the bright spots. Its very clearly visible in that shot.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby viscount aero » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:00 am

willendure wrote:
Xuxalina Rihhia wrote:Here is one of the latest pics of Ceres; apparently one bright spot has now been revealed to be two. I wonder if they might be elecrical discharge arcs. The twin "arcs" in the crater sure look like electrical arcs by now.


A Hexagonal crater (I think a different one to the last one I pointed out) just below and to the right of the crater with the bright spots. Its very clearly visible in that shot.


Yes I see it. Very cool. How could an impact have made that? [rhetorical question]
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby willendure » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:10 am

viscount aero wrote:
willendure wrote:
Xuxalina Rihhia wrote:Here is one of the latest pics of Ceres; apparently one bright spot has now been revealed to be two. I wonder if they might be elecrical discharge arcs. The twin "arcs" in the crater sure look like electrical arcs by now.


A Hexagonal crater (I think a different one to the last one I pointed out) just below and to the right of the crater with the bright spots. Its very clearly visible in that shot.


Yes I see it. Very cool. How could an impact have made that? [rhetorical question]


Apparently, due to cracks in the surface that pre-date the impact. Since a weakness exists along those fault lines, the crater rim tends to end up there instead of being round like we would expect from an impact. Amazingly, the fault lines just ended up dividing the surface into convenient hexagonal zones all ready to be impacted into hexagonal craters. Who would have thought it?

I also notice a much bigger hexagonal or possibly pentagonal crater in some of the images, it appears to be older as is has other craters "on top" of it.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby willendure » Thu Feb 26, 2015 2:12 am

Image

Pentagon shaped crater bottom middle of the image.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby D_Archer » Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:15 am

The electrical interactions make the crater, it widens over time, always discharging/eroding at the rim.

So we do not need any interacting bolide to create crater features at all (my conclusion).

Regards,
Daniel
- Shoot Forth Thunder -
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Metryq » Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:30 am

It was a frangible, hollow point meteor that made the hexagon pattern.
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