Ceres!

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Steve Smith » Sun Jun 21, 2015 11:17 am

This crater on Ceres looks a lot like Aristarchus on the Moon, except for the scale:

Ceres crater and crater chains
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby neilwilkes » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:56 am

Tycho is also similar, with the mass terracing on one side
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Steve Smith » Mon Jun 22, 2015 8:44 am

They aren't any closer in the mapping orbits:

Not much change

I altered this image:

Low light high contrast inverted
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby D_Archer » Mon Jun 22, 2015 12:34 pm

Steve Smith wrote:They aren't any closer in the mapping orbits:

Not much change

I altered this image:

Low light high contrast inverted


This was actually a prediction of mine on another forum after someone asked about the images always looking over exposed/saturated>
Author: D-Archer
Date: 11-Jun-15 11:00

If it is an electrical discharge you can not stop over saturation, it means light is produced and you will always see a bright unresolved feature.

What is possible is to get closer and closer and with underexposure maybe resolve the footprints of the discharges, the actual touchdown points on the surface... stressing maybe...

You can see the small white spots. The actual touchdown points would be even smaller on the surface.


You can see the points getting smaller in that last picture. I doubt the same would count for reflection, with reflection the "white area" should stay roughly the same size ( i think)...

Regards,
Daniel
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Ceres' blister and trenches

Unread postby dahlenaz » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:58 pm

Dawn has finally imaged from overhead the feature that previously drew attention
when against the horizon.. It appears to not be a remnant of multiple craters, as suggested
earlier.. Numerous craters are in the vacinity, even a real large one, but none seem to offer
a hint of overlap that can produce a remnant peak.

Image

There is however an interesting trench features seen nearby in two direction, one appears to
have a very bright area.. A relationship between trenches and blisters is seen on Mars at the
west end of Valles Marineris where several blisters are aligned...
http://media2.wptv.com/photo/2015/06/24/wptv_ceres_pyramid_1435149810699_20270437_ver1.0_640_480.png

Notice that there are at least four parallel trenches in the same general
orientation to this mount feature which may be a blister..

These features deserve our focus so hopefully this thread will remain a separate branch
of Ceres discussions. d..z

...
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Dotini » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:23 am

Somewhere in the discussion was an observation about craters appearing as though they were almost all aimed at the center of the body, and not coming in at random or tangential angles.

Could someone please direct me to the source of that?
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Re: Ceres' blister and trenches

Unread postby dahlenaz » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:03 am

In the previous post a feature near the mount-blister was thought to be a trench with
some bright surfaces,, but i think i will retract that though based on a closer view of
that long portion between the crater (center left in the image) and the
bright portion (lower-right)...

Look closely at the lines of the crater,, the lower right appears to be obscured by a general
softness that begins at the upper portion of the brightened feature at lower right..
See this marked-up image for guidence.
http://para-az.com/ceres/softened-edges-mu.jpg

Image

Some input would be appreciated.

To my eye it looks like a plume of some sort extending between the two features. d..z

...
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Re: Ceres' blister and trenches

Unread postby dahlenaz » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:25 am

Another view of the adjoined features (WHICH IS A FLIPPED IMAGE)
causes the softened aspects of the image
to shift and become split to either side of the connecting ground features between
the two ends of what first appeared to be a trench..

Image
Larger Image: http://para-az.com/ceres/softened-edges-2mu.jpg

If these images are untouched and accurate representation of what the
camera is seeing, then, might the shifted softened areas indicate the
presence of a plume emerging from the lower left aspect
of the combined feature?

I did read somewhere that some early Ceres images were stretched
causing circularity... Whether such alteration can cause what is seen
as a softened area is beyond my knowledge...

It is time to go to the original images,, since these second-hand images may be misleading.

Original image seems to show obscured ground features.
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/spaceimages/index.php?search=dawn&category=

d..z

...
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Re: Ceres' blister and trenches

Unread postby dahlenaz » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:20 pm

For the sake of context the following original image is available
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/spaceimages/details.php?id=PIA19556

It shows a dramatic regional difference surrounding the features mentioned above.

But watch out for JPL's image flipping when going from index-images to
their associated "more info" image. An example being Dawn RC3 image22.

In it, the lower right is a heavily creater-chained area but in the "more info" image
that region is flipped to the lower left.

I can't imagine why this is done but once we get past the confusion of orientation
we might see that something is happening on this body which seems to be creating
selective-featuring that appears to be build-up in one region, where crater-chaining
is occurring , in contrast to a distant region where very large craters
are heavily populating the surface.. and between them is the area with a blister-like mount..

Around that mount appears to be two depressions, unlike normal craters..

I am reminded of Genesis where it is written that "the Earth was without form and void".
This would be an expected configuration for a body formed in an environment where material
is not confined by gravity or pressure,, where expansion and cooling allow for varied structural
characteristics,, not like what might be expected of a solid accreated body, forced together..

It is for this void-posessing body that the following suggestion is generated about viewing the
area around the blister-mount,, if it is indead a mount... Might the surface collapse or rise
as the material is excavated or ejected..

In an experiment by Billy Yelverton with water-saturated soil and an electric discharge to that
surface,, gas from heating cause the surface to rise and fall and as it became desicated took
on the appearance of a mount with a moat surrounding it..

This process may not be applicable here on Ceres but the oddly shaped depressions adjacent
to the mount seems very different than the craters of a distant region near the horizon of the
image mentioned above... d..z

...
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Steve Smith » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:28 am

More bright dust

As I mentioned previously, I think at least some of these features are similar to the Reiner-Gamma formation on the Moon.
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Ceres' Plume near blister-mount and trenches

Unread postby dahlenaz » Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:42 am

This False-3D image shows clearly that material is being lofted above the ground and appears
to be obscuring some features to the upper left of the bright feature..
Within the lower feature there appears to be bright material in flight..

The benifit of a false 3D image is more a personal thing to enhanse resolution
and give both my eyes an image of their own to be processed by my brain..

Someone at the Ceres-thread already mentioned plumes,, which was talk-down
due to the lack of shadows.. There won't be pronounced shadows
on a dimly lighted body.. d...z

Image

Larger Image
http://para-az.com/ceres/false3d-ofplume.jpg

...
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Re: Ceres' plume, blister-mount and trenches

Unread postby dahlenaz » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:36 pm

When looking at the features in the previous image, where there appears to be
material lofted above the surface toward a nearby crater and even what appears
to be something like material lofted over the foreground feature, which is definately
quite elevated with steep sides, I am drawn toward making a comparison between
the proximity of the crater and mound in the earlier image and not far from this active
pair.. What are the chances that two paired features would be in such close proximity
on a rotating body?

The activity of this second location looks to be a mound in the process of being
formed but the characteristics of the dark central area requires closer/different images
to verify if a crater is forming atop a mound,, which is common of anode blister formations,
such as has been suggested for many features on Mars,, even Olympus Mons, and produced
naturally here on earth at lightning arrestors..

We maybe can't yet apply a mechanism to this activity but the bright coating
of the surrounding area in proximity to the plumes or clouds of emerging material
seem to be a different aspect of the activity than the darker obscuring details
mentioned earlier. They appear to fly further from the active area..

Is there a single process which could lead to this sort of separation of material
to leave bright stream-like features down the slope and sending a darker material
onto the surrounding surfaces? d...z

...
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Re: Ceres' blister and trenches

Unread postby dahlenaz » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:11 am

The following link will bring you to the quote below which describes the sublimation-version
of a single process capable of causing the deposit of materials of two different types,
for what its worth, as applied to comet 67p.
I've rhed this same explanation in an article on Ceres, but have not yet found the link.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15172&start=645#p106525

Based on observations of the gas emerging from comets, they are known to be rich in ices. As they move closer to the Sun along their orbits, their surfaces are warmed and the ices sublimate into gas, which streams away from the nucleus, dragging along dust particles embedded in the ice to form the coma and tail.


Would something comparable occur in an electric process, so as to preserve the distinctness of
such different substances, and cause such close deposition of a snow-like (in brightness) substance
right at the event's perimeter? d..z

...
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Re: Ceres' plume, near mount blister

Unread postby dahlenaz » Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:32 pm

The image below reveals that something was obscuring a portion of the left crater feature when
an earlier image was taken, as shown in previous posts. That something appeared to extend from
the brightened area of an adjacent feature which now appears to be crater with an accumulation
of bright material at a 4:00 orientation in this image.

Notice the orientation of the crater-pairs to their associated accumulations of bright material,
it seems very similar.

The bright area of the left crater-pair appeared to be quit elevated, when seen from the
previous angle..

This image seems to further advance the suggestion that material was being lofted above
the surface and toward the far crater while brighter material appears to be
mounding at the near edge,, very similar to what is seen at mount-blister. d..z

Orignial article:
http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia//images/image-detail.html?id=PIA19586

Image

Larger cropped Image
http://para-az.com/ceres/crater-pair.jpg

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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Steve Smith » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:08 am

Dotini, I don't remember it being in this discussion, but I wrote about it awhile ago:

Martian Electric Augers
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