Ceres!

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Steve Smith » Wed May 20, 2015 6:45 am

Latest from Dawn:

Crescent Ceres
Steve Smith
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 2:23 pm

Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Steve Smith » Thu May 21, 2015 6:44 pm

Steve Smith
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 2:23 pm

Re: Ceres!

Unread postby GaryN » Thu May 21, 2015 8:00 pm

In the first of those 2 images there seems to be a channel on the surface, running from about the 4 o'clock position of the 'lit' crater down to another less bright but still obvious feature at the bottom right of the image. Nice big well defined hex crater showing too.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
User avatar
GaryN
 
Posts: 2661
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:18 pm
Location: Sooke, BC, Canada

Re: Ceres!

Unread postby stevepidge » Fri May 22, 2015 5:14 am

I admit, these spots are weird. It is hard to get an idea truly how bright these spots are. Does the scattering suggest crystal formations? Artificial? Electrical or just a high albedo surface material.
stevepidge
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:54 am

Re: Ceres!

Unread postby folaht » Sat May 23, 2015 3:02 am

It's a giant concretion.

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Ceres-Mars-crater-ice-two-views.jpg

Just like the geodesic dome crater on mars.

Image
Since 1 % 1, 1 * 1 and 1 - 1 do not add up, we must conclude that 1 + 1 is 3.
folaht
 
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:38 am

Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Rossim » Sun May 24, 2015 11:19 am

I can't seem to find any info on why the NASA scientists can conclude that the bright spots are due to a reflection. I understand that they disappear when Ceres rotates out from the sun's light, but could it be rotating out of the sun's electrical influence? Also, the brightness doesn't seem to change, meaning the hypothetical reflective surface must be uniform. Why would there be a change in a tiny fraction of the surface in the center of a crater? It cannot be ice... perhaps a salt deposit?

An electrical interpretation would also explain the plumes of water/hydroxyl on Ceres... something a reflective surface does not do alone. I think we're observing the process which forms the bulls-eye pattern found everywhere on Ceres and other planetary bodies, proving that they are not caused by impacts as always assumed.
Rossim
 
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:46 am

Re: Ceres!

Unread postby D_Archer » Mon May 25, 2015 10:52 am

Rossim wrote:
but could it be rotating out of the sun's electrical influence?


Yes, that is possible. An EDM crater would be caused by the interaction with the solar wind. This must be a slow process. When the discharge fades it is likely that a new spot on the surface will appear, this can be a new crater next to it, creating a crater chain, or maybe a smaller discharge on the rim.

Regards,
Daniel
- Shoot Forth Thunder -
User avatar
D_Archer
 
Posts: 1255
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:01 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Ceres!

Unread postby D_Archer » Mon May 25, 2015 11:01 am

motamouth wrote:In the recent 'composite', that shows rotation, the brightness of the spots appears to be independent of the angle of rotation. Would this suggest that the spot material is intrinsically bright rather than just reflective?

Regards,
Eric.


Hi Eric,

Yes it would, simple reflection does not have such a high albedo. If it is EDM caused by the solar wind then where ions and electrons recombine light is produced.

Regards,
Daniel


ps. Not EU links, but very high albedo is not really as simple as saying ''it is ice:http://milesmathis.com/encel.pdf and http://milesmathis.com/encel2.pdf /
- Shoot Forth Thunder -
User avatar
D_Archer
 
Posts: 1255
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:01 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Ceres!

Unread postby GaryN » Thu May 28, 2015 7:41 pm

Crater chains now observable.
Dawn spirals closer to Ceres, returns a new view
Image
http://phys.org/news/2015-05-dawn-spira ... -view.html

So which process is responsible? For Mars we have:
Hypotheses regarding the formation of pit crater chains require development of a substantial subsurface void to accommodate collapse of the overlying material. Suggested mechanisms of formation include: collapsed lava tubes, dike swarms, collapsed magma chamber, substrate dissolution (analogous to terrestrial karst), fissuring beneath loose material, and dilational faulting.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
User avatar
GaryN
 
Posts: 2661
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:18 pm
Location: Sooke, BC, Canada

Re: Ceres!

Unread postby stevepidge » Fri May 29, 2015 7:31 am

GaryN wrote:Crater chains now observable.
Dawn spirals closer to Ceres, returns a new view
Image
http://phys.org/news/2015-05-dawn-spira ... -view.html

So which process is responsible? For Mars we have:
Hypotheses regarding the formation of pit crater chains require development of a substantial subsurface void to accommodate collapse of the overlying material. Suggested mechanisms of formation include: collapsed lava tubes, dike swarms, collapsed magma chamber, substrate dissolution (analogous to terrestrial karst), fissuring beneath loose material, and dilational faulting.


LOL, This reminds of the scene in Monty Python the Quest for the Holy Grail where the village idiots identify a witch by balancing her on scales with a duck. Hilarious these scientists.
stevepidge
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:54 am

Re: Ceres!

Unread postby D_Archer » Fri May 29, 2015 11:03 am

Ceres: An Electrically Scarred World | Space News:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvH8fiM3ZGo

Published on 27 May 2015
In April of 2015, the NASA Dawn Spacecraft began transmitting new, close-up images of the mysterious dwarf planet Ceres. The images to date have only deepened the mystery surrounding the puzzling bright spots on the planet’s surface. However, in addition to this ongoing puzzle, questions remain about Ceres that planetary scientists seem unready to ask. The surface of Ceres is massively cratered, with a variety of types of craters, including so-called bulls-eye craters (craters with central craters), craters with central peaks, and weird hexagonal craters, such as those seen on Mars, Mercury, and the Saturnian moon Mimas. Dawn’s exploration of Ceres is a startling reminder of just how inadequately the modern theory of planetary cratering explains what we actually see on planets and moons

---

And of course crater chains, the new close up reveals small crater chains and in earlier pictures you could see large crater chains at the north pole (large/small refer to crater size)

Regards,
Daniel
- Shoot Forth Thunder -
User avatar
D_Archer
 
Posts: 1255
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:01 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Metryq » Fri May 29, 2015 6:00 pm

D_Archer wrote:and weird hexagonal craters, such as those seen on Mars, Mercury, and the Saturnian moon Mimas.

Meanwhile the hexagonal clouds of Saturn's poles fail to ring any bells. "Hmmm, I've seen that shape somewhere else nearby..."

Stevepidge wrote:This reminds of the scene in Monty Python the Quest for the Holy Grail

"She turned you into a newt?"

"Well...I got better."
User avatar
Metryq
 
Posts: 513
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:31 am

Ceres crater chains

Unread postby bdw000 » Sat May 30, 2015 7:17 am

No big deal I know, but these look like some nice crater chains on Ceres:
[url]
http://io9.com/our-closest-view-yet-of- ... 1707716012[/url]
bdw000
 
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:06 pm

Re: Ceres!

Unread postby GaryN » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:58 pm

Rosetta team propose ending mission by landing on comet -
http://sen.com/news/rosetta-team-propos ... g-on-comet
I'd say the close-ups should be pretty good!
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
User avatar
GaryN
 
Posts: 2661
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:18 pm
Location: Sooke, BC, Canada

Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Metryq » Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:51 am

GaryN wrote:Rosetta team propose ending mission by landing on comet -
http://sen.com/news/rosetta-team-propos ... g-on-comet
I'd say the close-ups should be pretty good!

Un-freaking-believable! The article still calls 67P an "icy body."

The dogma did not bark in the night, that is the curious thing.
Actually, the curious thing is what this is doing in the Ceres thread...
User avatar
Metryq
 
Posts: 513
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:31 am

PreviousNext

Return to Electric Universe - Planetary Science

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests