Ceres!

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Solar » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:15 am

Sorry if this has been posted. Spring has sprung in my neck of the woods which means more time is spent outside than inside.

viscount aero wrote:The thing is that so much jumping to conclusions is happening while closeups of the region haven't even been released yet. There isn't enough visual data to know anything. So all of this assumption is erroneous.


Someone looking for "Plumes"?

A brief recapitulation of some things:

Recall Rosetta and the fact that “bright spots” can arise due to image processing:

Rosetta’s OSIRIS team have produced a colour image of Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko as it would be seen by the human eye. As anticipated, the comet turns out to be very grey indeed, with only slight, subtle colour variations seen across its surface. - Comet 67P/C-G in living colour


It is quite dark in outer space obviously. In order to reveal emissivity both brightness and contrast have to be manipulated as demonstrated here:

Active pit detected in Seth region of Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko. This is an OSIRIS narrow-angle camera image acquired on 28 August 2014 from a distance of 60 km. The image resolution is 1 m/pixel. Enhancing the contrast (right) reveals fine structures in the shadow of the pit, interpreted as jet-like features rising from the pit. Active pit


Note that these regions on Comet 67P are now referred to as “active pit” as opposed to the former “craters” with ‘ice’ lurking in their shadows. Any manipulated black and white image from space can have this effect after processing whether comet or moon. At the very bottom of the following page is a slider that allows the image to be zoomed. The Apollo 13 Saturn IVB impact crater can be found along with several other “bright spots”:

Apollo 13 SIVB Impact

Black and white image of planet Mercury

I think most images like these throughout history have mislead a lot of theorist. Current images of Ceres are having the same impact (water vapor, "outgassing", geologically active, "venting" etc). The nature of the activity that is being sought after (electrical effects) are more pronounced with the presence of “plumes” such as with Jupiters moon Io, or Saturn’s moon Enceladus, or the fairly recent activity on Mars.

These plumes are usually noticed or found by accident. They are not purposefully sought after and again take advantage of image processing to be revealed as exemplified by the earlier references. Unless the Dawn space craft is positioned so as reveal the possibility of plumes associated to the prominent bright spots of Ceres …

Fortunately, the association of bright spots with plumes is becoming one of those things on the list of things to look for and is already being (shall we say) 'typically assessed'. The **possibility** of ‘Plumes’ associated with the bright spots on Ceres does exist.
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby viscount aero » Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:24 pm

Solar wrote:Sorry if this has been posted. Spring has sprung in my neck of the woods which means more time is spent outside than inside.

viscount aero wrote:The thing is that so much jumping to conclusions is happening while closeups of the region haven't even been released yet. There isn't enough visual data to know anything. So all of this assumption is erroneous.


Someone looking for "Plumes"?

A brief recapitulation of some things:

Recall Rosetta and the fact that “bright spots” can arise due to image processing:

Rosetta’s OSIRIS team have produced a colour image of Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko as it would be seen by the human eye. As anticipated, the comet turns out to be very grey indeed, with only slight, subtle colour variations seen across its surface. - Comet 67P/C-G in living colour


It is quite dark in outer space obviously. In order to reveal emissivity both brightness and contrast have to be manipulated as demonstrated here:

Active pit detected in Seth region of Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko. This is an OSIRIS narrow-angle camera image acquired on 28 August 2014 from a distance of 60 km. The image resolution is 1 m/pixel. Enhancing the contrast (right) reveals fine structures in the shadow of the pit, interpreted as jet-like features rising from the pit. Active pit


Note that these regions on Comet 67P are now referred to as “active pit” as opposed to the former “craters” with ‘ice’ lurking in their shadows. Any manipulated black and white image from space can have this effect after processing whether comet or moon. At the very bottom of the following page is a slider that allows the image to be zoomed. The Apollo 13 Saturn IVB impact crater can be found along with several other “bright spots”:

Apollo 13 SIVB Impact

Black and white image of planet Mercury

I think most images like these throughout history have mislead a lot of theorist. Current images of Ceres are having the same impact (water vapor, "outgassing", geologically active, "venting" etc). The nature of the activity that is being sought after (electrical effects) are more pronounced with the presence of “plumes” such as with Jupiters moon Io, or Saturn’s moon Enceladus, or the fairly recent activity on Mars.

These plumes are usually noticed or found by accident. They are not purposefully sought after and again take advantage of image processing to be revealed as exemplified by the earlier references. Unless the Dawn space craft is positioned so as reveal the possibility of plumes associated to the prominent bright spots of Ceres …

Fortunately, the association of bright spots with plumes is becoming one of those things on the list of things to look for and is already being (shall we say) 'typically assessed'. The **possibility** of ‘Plumes’ associated with the bright spots on Ceres does exist.


So far I haven't seen any such plumes on Ceres. There is no evidence for anything yet proposed from EU to mainstream to explain Ceres' anomalous bright spots unless it is from simple overexposure of the image to enhance detail.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Solar » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:17 pm

viscount aero wrote:So far I haven't seen any such plumes on Ceres.


Early analysis of pictures taken as Dawn approached Ceres shows a pair of bright spots inside a crater.
The angle of the reflection changes as the mini-planet rotates and the spots are visible even when the crater’s rim would block the spacecraft’s view of the crater floor. That suggests that whatever is reflecting rises relatively high above Ceres’ surface, scientists said at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston this week.

“We believe we could be seeing outgassing, but we need higher resolution (images) to confirm this,” said Andreas Nathues, with the Max Planck Institute for Solar System and the lead researcher for Dawn’s framing camera. - Ceres' Mystery Bright Spots May be Ice Plumes


There is still a ways to go yet but based on the above; effort will be made to check this. What better mystery than to discover an inexplicably ‘geologically active dwarf planet between Mars and Jupiter made of rock/ice outgassing water vapor due to tidal forces’ or another celestial body like Io with a “volcano” of some sort.

‘Water was detected’ for Ceres Jan 2014:

Herschel is a European Space Agency (ESA) mission with important NASA contributions. Data from the infrared observatory suggest that plumes of water vapor shoot up from Ceres when portions of its icy surface warm slightly.

The results come at the right time for NASA's Dawn mission, which is on its way to Ceres now after spending more than a year orbiting the large asteroid Vesta. Dawn is scheduled to arrive at Ceres in the spring of 2015, where it will take the closest look ever at its surface.

"We've got a spacecraft on the way to Ceres, so we don't have to wait long before getting more context on this intriguing result, right from the source itself,"
Water Detected on Dwarf Planet Ceres


They suspect plumes as possible explanation for the earlier detected "water".
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
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Why is Ceres there, with Vesta and Pallas?

Unread postby dahlenaz » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:43 pm

As much as the characteristics of Ceres seem important there is a much greater mystery
which should be brought into a discussion amoung catastrophist, especially if an event
is said to have occured which involved interaction between planets,, particularly Mars
and Jupiter. If there is any hint of a fatal war of the gods and the loss or destruction of
one of the characters it would be logical that evidence be found where the battle took place.

Ceres should be regarded as a unique survivor of some event and like an ex-moon along with Vesta
be examined for clues of having received damage from that event.. The celestial drama
of inter-planetary chaos would seem incomplete if it proceeded without an explanation
for the debris right where there is supposed to be a planet, between Mars and Jupiter.

Tom Van Flandern addressed this in his book sharing the subject of Missing Planets along with
other matters and i would hope we find details there-in which complement the Ceres thread..

d..z

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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby viscount aero » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:43 pm

Solar wrote:
viscount aero wrote:So far I haven't seen any such plumes on Ceres.


Early analysis of pictures taken as Dawn approached Ceres shows a pair of bright spots inside a crater.
The angle of the reflection changes as the mini-planet rotates and the spots are visible even when the crater’s rim would block the spacecraft’s view of the crater floor. That suggests that whatever is reflecting rises relatively high above Ceres’ surface, scientists said at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston this week.

“We believe we could be seeing outgassing, but we need higher resolution (images) to confirm this,” said Andreas Nathues, with the Max Planck Institute for Solar System and the lead researcher for Dawn’s framing camera. - Ceres' Mystery Bright Spots May be Ice Plumes


There is still a ways to go yet but based on the above; effort will be made to check this. What better mystery than to discover an inexplicably ‘geologically active dwarf planet between Mars and Jupiter made of rock/ice outgassing water vapor due to tidal forces’ or another celestial body like Io with a “volcano” of some sort.

‘Water was detected’ for Ceres Jan 2014:

Herschel is a European Space Agency (ESA) mission with important NASA contributions. Data from the infrared observatory suggest that plumes of water vapor shoot up from Ceres when portions of its icy surface warm slightly.

The results come at the right time for NASA's Dawn mission, which is on its way to Ceres now after spending more than a year orbiting the large asteroid Vesta. Dawn is scheduled to arrive at Ceres in the spring of 2015, where it will take the closest look ever at its surface.

"We've got a spacecraft on the way to Ceres, so we don't have to wait long before getting more context on this intriguing result, right from the source itself,"
Water Detected on Dwarf Planet Ceres


They suspect plumes as possible explanation for the earlier detected "water".


Thanks for that info, Solar.

We still need to see hi-rez closeups of the surface. The photos are still inadequate to explain anything.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Solar » Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:02 am

viscount aero wrote:We still need to see hi-rez closeups of the surface. The photos are still inadequate to explain anything.


Agreed. Especially images of the horizon over the suspected area accented by sunlight.

I’ve read this thread between raking up the few remaining leaves from last fall and see that member Dotini has already pointed out the speculations on plumes (here). Not to stir a hornet’s nest but there is a caveat to note that has long been in public view:

Then he focused on the bright feature. It is located in the floor of a crater 80 kilometers in diameter. From its behavior as the globe rotates, he said, the bright feature appears to lie in a depression. The images that have been released to the public from the rotation animation do not show all of the photos of the bright feature, so the next point concerns images that I can't show you. "What is amazing," he said, "is that you can see the feature while the rim is still in front of the line of sight. Therefore we believe at the moment that this could be some kind of outgassing. But we need higher resolution data to confirm this." What he is saying is that as Ceres' globe rotates and the 80-kilometer crater's rim rotates into view, that rim should block our ability to see the bright feature on the floor of the crater. However, the bright feature is already visibly bright as the crater begins to rotate into view. Therefore, it must be vertically above the rim of the crater: it must be some kind of plume. "During the day," Nathues went on, "the feature evolves: it brightens. At dusk it gets fainter; at late dusk it disappears completely. We see this for cometary activity." - LPSC 2015: First results from Dawn at Ceres: provisional place names and possible plumes


That was 3/19/2015.

Wikipedia has sourced the above information thus:

It was also revealed that the brightest spot was sitting in the middle of an 80 km crater, with its dimmer companion located towards this crater's eastern rim. In images not released to the public, these bright spots could already be seen when the crater rim should still be in the line of sight. This would mean that they are located above the craters, suggesting some kind of outgassing. Moreover, the spots brighten during the day and get fainter at dusk. – Wikipedia


As you say the photos the public are allowed to see are inadequate to explain anything. It’s the other unreleased image(s) that appear to be suggestive of plumes. I have no idea if all images have been subsequently released but assume that, like Rosetta, they are taking care to solidify what the evidences suggest before (hopefully) allowing for a more informative release.
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Dotini » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:22 pm

Active pit detected in Seth region of Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko. This is an OSIRIS narrow-angle camera image acquired on 28 August 2014 from a distance of 60 km. The image resolution is 1 m/pixel. Enhancing the contrast (right) reveals fine structures in the shadow of the pit, interpreted as jet-like features rising from the pit.
http://www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Images ... Active_pit


...the bright feature. It is located in the floor of a crater 80 kilometers in diameter. From its behavior as the globe rotates, he said, the bright feature appears to lie in a depression.

During the day," Nathues went on, "the feature evolves: it brightens. At dusk it gets fainter; at late dusk it disappears completely. We see this for cometary activity."

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-la ... ceres.html


So the center of the #5 bright spot might be a jet-like feature arising from the center pit of the bullseye crater. And maybe the water detected is the result of an electrochemical reaction between materials in the jet and the solar wind.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Solar » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:56 pm

Dotini wrote:Active pit detected in Seth region of Comet 67P/Churyumov–Gerasimenko. This is an OSIRIS narrow-angle camera image acquired on 28 August 2014 from a distance of 60 km. The image resolution is 1 m/pixel. Enhancing the contrast (right) reveals fine structures in the shadow of the pit, interpreted as jet-like features rising from the pit.
http://www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Images ... Active_pit


...the bright feature. It is located in the floor of a crater 80 kilometers in diameter. From its behavior as the globe rotates, he said, the bright feature appears to lie in a depression.

During the day," Nathues went on, "the feature evolves: it brightens. At dusk it gets fainter; at late dusk it disappears completely. We see this for cometary activity."

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/emily-la ... ceres.html


So the center of the #5 bright spot might be a jet-like feature arising from the center pit of the bullseye crater. And maybe the water detected is the result of an electrochemical reaction between materials in the jet and the solar wind.


That is a good assessment of their very own assessments member Dotini. Thank you for the use of the words “maybe” and “might”; that’s the very same intrigue expressed as “…we don't have to wait long before getting more context on this intriguing result, right from the source itself" and driving the quest for better images.

It might be this: Active pit

Or the Cerenian spot(s) might be the sublimating remnants of something like this: Water Ice on Mars

Or... (its possible to walk an 'electric' country mile here)

Naught to do but wait.
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby dahlenaz » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:41 pm

While we wait for developments from ongoing space missions we most likely will find much to
roll into the explanation of Ceres, and its fragmented family, as we do what Celest suggested
in another related thread -where the suggestion is an upgrading -with ElectricU developments-
some of the details offered by Tom Van Flandern in his late 90's book.

Somewhat of a partial upgrade may come from a published paper from 1988 where Wal Thornhill
makes reference to T V Flandern's observations with this comment:

14. T. van Flandem has proposed the formation of comets,
meteorites, asteroids and tektites from the explosion of a
larger former planet in the Solar System [29] by some
unknown mechanism. He shows how many anomalies in the
characteristics of our solar system may be simply explained
by such an event. The stratification of chondritic types
within the asteroid belt certainly indicates at least four
separate events in that region of the Solar System. The
differences in composition of meteorites from those regions
may be diagnostic of the parent bodies.


There is also an image of Comet orbits which may give support
to the events suggested above.

Here is a link to his Wal's 1988 paper: [Link removed at user's request.]

d..z

...
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby dahlenaz » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:19 pm

Warning about previous post
The link in the previous post may not be a clean download,, it may not be safe. My system had difficulty
with it and it showed as 17Mb size for what should be a far smaller file.

Please use this link instead.. d..z

http://www.sis-group.org.uk/files/docs/ ... orites.pdf

...
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby D_Archer » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:01 am

Solar wrote:
viscount aero wrote:We still need to see hi-rez closeups of the surface. The photos are still inadequate to explain anything.


Agreed. Especially images of the horizon over the suspected area accented by sunlight.

I’ve read this thread between raking up the few remaining leaves from last fall and see that member Dotini has already pointed out the speculations on plumes (here). Not to stir a hornet’s nest but there is a caveat to note that has long been in public view:

Then he focused on the bright feature. It is located in the floor of a crater 80 kilometers in diameter. From its behavior as the globe rotates, he said, the bright feature appears to lie in a depression. The images that have been released to the public from the rotation animation do not show all of the photos of the bright feature, so the next point concerns images that I can't show you. "What is amazing," he said, "is that you can see the feature while the rim is still in front of the line of sight. Therefore we believe at the moment that this could be some kind of outgassing. But we need higher resolution data to confirm this." What he is saying is that as Ceres' globe rotates and the 80-kilometer crater's rim rotates into view, that rim should block our ability to see the bright feature on the floor of the crater. However, the bright feature is already visibly bright as the crater begins to rotate into view. Therefore, it must be vertically above the rim of the crater: it must be some kind of plume. "During the day," Nathues went on, "the feature evolves: it brightens. At dusk it gets fainter; at late dusk it disappears completely. We see this for cometary activity." - LPSC 2015: First results from Dawn at Ceres: provisional place names and possible plumes


That was 3/19/2015.

Wikipedia has sourced the above information thus:

It was also revealed that the brightest spot was sitting in the middle of an 80 km crater, with its dimmer companion located towards this crater's eastern rim. In images not released to the public, these bright spots could already be seen when the crater rim should still be in the line of sight. This would mean that they are located above the craters, suggesting some kind of outgassing. Moreover, the spots brighten during the day and get fainter at dusk. – Wikipedia


As you say the photos the public are allowed to see are inadequate to explain anything. It’s the other unreleased image(s) that appear to be suggestive of plumes. I have no idea if all images have been subsequently released but assume that, like Rosetta, they are taking care to solidify what the evidences suggest before (hopefully) allowing for a more informative release.



So the "plume" is visible above the rim and this would indicate > "We see this for cometary activity"

Cometary activity in EU means only 1 thing. Electrical interaction. This happens on asteroids and also on Ceres. Interaction with the solar wind, i think this is enough indication to surmise what the bright spot is. Also this talk about not enough data is bogus. Pictures they have are just not released to the public, hooray for transparency in Science, they would hide the best evidence for what the bright spot is, go figure.

Regards,
Daniel
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Metryq » Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:48 am

D_Archer wrote:Pictures they have are just not released to the public, hooray for transparency in Science

Gotta make sure the evidence fits the narrative. Must keep the funding secure.

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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby GaryN » Tue May 05, 2015 12:12 pm

I think the large image at the link below shows good evidence that the craters are electrical excavations, as the large one in the top-right quadrant, as well as having the rim craters also seems to have the scalloped edges, and in the image, it suggests to me that the bays are the outer edges of rim craters that have been worn away as the crater was being enlarged as a discharge rotated around the rim.
Cropped image of the crater:
Image
Full screen:
http://www.unmannedspaceflight.com/inde ... t&id=35647
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Steve Smith » Mon May 11, 2015 8:30 am

Nice anaglyphs of Ceres:

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/tiff/PIA19541.tif

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/tiff/PIA19539.tif

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/tiff/PIA19537.tif

Images of Ceres reveal that it is most like the other small moons that circle the gas giant planets. It is 950 kilometers in diameter, making it a near twin to Saturn's moon, Tethys. The surface of Tethys resembles Ceres:

http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/multimedia/i ... 189019.jpg

When Dawn starts its low altitude mapping mission, Ceres will look a lot like this.

Interestingly, the KBOs Sedna, Orcus, and Quaoar are similar in size. I speculate that all of these bodies were catastrophically altered at some time. Perhaps they reveal their violent electrical births from other objects -- the Sun? Gas giants? Something else not available to our thinking?

The Milky Way could be a wilderness of rocky bodies of every shape and size. If gas giants and stars give birth through electrical parturition, and the planet hunters claim hundreds of gas giant-like planets in extremis, revolving at distances closer than Mercury is to the Sun, those planets are most likely experiencing rapid modification. It isn't beyond reason to suggest that stars, especially multiple star systems, could also experience extreme duress because of an association with a more powerful, more violent companion.

It's speculated by some that rocky bodies are expelled from stars and gas giants because of an electrical imbalance that appears to be a common phenomenon in the galaxy. Maybe these moons, planets, and KBOs are not just local to the Solar System but can arrive from great distances, as well.
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Re: Ceres!

Unread postby Steve Smith » Mon May 11, 2015 12:56 pm

I'm intrigued by the crater in the upper right of PIA19537:

Ceres crater anomalies

Many polygonal formations, not to mention domed craters, hexagons and crater chains.
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