Earth - Tornadoes, Hurricanes, Typhoons....

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Tornado Alley Field Mills

Unread postby Shelgeyr » Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:51 am

This will probably qualify this thread for being moved to "New Insights and Mad Ideas", but regardless - I was watching the MIT Physics YouTube video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43AeuDvWc0k , and got to wondering if a "Tornado Protection System" could be built - one that was either building-specific, or even neighborhood or region-specific shields - by running lots of vertical high-power DC current carrying wires either down the face of a building (option 1) or in a "curtain" strung between towers (option 2). That way, if (as I'm given to understand) tornados really are "charged sheath vortexes", then wouldn't it simply be a matter of determining the "handedness" of either cyclonic or anti-cyclonic tornadoes, and running current through the cables in the matching direction to cause them to repel?

Wouldn't that simply be a practical application of the "Biot–Savart" law?

Looking up at clouds, I always lose my sense of scale... Anyone know how tall your typical tornado might be? This isn't a rhetorical question, by the way, I actually have no idea.
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Re: Tornado Alley Field Mills

Unread postby dahlenaz » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:33 pm

webolife wrote:I would think a life-saving realtime application of the EU would certainly cause some stubborn SM heads to turn.


With reference to stopping tornados, it appears to have been practiced as it applies to waterspouts. In a book called "Electrostatic Experiments" G.W. Francis; Chaper 11 explains "that the Waterspout it too easily explained by electrical attraction to leave any doubt that its cause is a highly-charged state of the air, and we are confirmed in this conclusion by the means taken to disperse it, namely, by firing cannon and pointing sharp weapons at it." a woodcut image shows "the usual appearance of this terrific phenomenon: the sea beneath it is agitated, and rises up in a short column; the cloud above stretches downwards in the form of a funnel, sometimes remaining steady, but more frequently moving forward, and involving in destructive torrents of water every thing it touches, and so great is often its power,as to draw up fish and other objects: hence the frequent accounts we read of showers of frogs, fish, etc."

From the content of the book i get the impression that this was Franklin era knowledge and before. They were doing some amazing things back then. Their electrostatic experiments could teach us a lot about what is occurring in the electric universe. d...z

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Re: Tornado Alley Field Mills

Unread postby Shelgeyr » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:33 pm

I love the idea of maybe being able to stop or disrupt a torado or waterspout with essentially a harpoon attached to a grounded cable. My problem with this is "Why didn't the tornado that smashed into downtown Fort Worth several years ago (2000?) ground out against the steel skyscrapers? Did the spray-on fire retardants on the girders prevent this from happening?
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Re: Tornado Alley Field Mills

Unread postby dahlenaz » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:46 pm

Shelgeyr wrote:I love the idea of maybe being able to stop or disrupt a torado or waterspout with essentially a harpoon attached to a grounded cable. My problem with this is "Why didn't the tornado that smashed into downtown Fort Worth several years ago (2000?) ground out against the steel skyscrapers? Did the spray-on fire retardants on the girders prevent this from happening?


The book only mentions the application for waterspouts. The grouding reqirements necessary may be different,
if that is what was being done with the spouts. I do not have much insight on this, just stumbled onto the page
while looking for something else. d...z
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Re: Tornado Alley Field Mills

Unread postby mharratsc » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:21 pm

My idea of a 'grid system' was to actually install lightning arrestors with very low resistance path to water table, along the densest and most frequent paths of tornados in Tornado Alley.
I figured that- if there were enough lighthing arrestors- it might encourage arc discharges before the circuit got really sustained in a vortex.

My second idea was to have 'storm chasers', but instead of being armed with cameras, to be armed with a rocket launcher type array that could be deployed, drilled in, and fire a rocket remotely at a supercell, and see if that would dissipate the charge of the supercell down through the atmosphere in an arc 'circuit' before it started a sustained vortex.
They've done some pretty spiffy experiments with discharging small cloud formations with some rocket-fired ground wires. I doubt it would take a huge amount of work to make a mobile unit. The biggest challenges would be rocket thrust vs. length of wire/payload, and the ability to dig the other end of the conductor down far enough to make a really good circuit.
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Fire tornado

Unread postby Stra » Wed Aug 25, 2010 4:24 am

Fire tornado in Brazil:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09cYrUI7PDE

In the first ten or so seconds you can see the incredibly beautiful (and scary) filamentary structure. It's so obvious a five year old couldn't miss it!

Can you experts comment on that? Is what we are looking at here an electromagnetic phenomenon?
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Re: Fire tornado

Unread postby StevenJay » Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:11 pm

Stra wrote:Fire tornado in Brazil:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09cYrUI7PDE

In the first ten or so seconds you can see the incredibly beautiful (and scary) filamentary structure. It's so obvious a five year old couldn't miss it!

Yes! Especially at the base. Awesome. :)
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Re: Fire tornado

Unread postby Nitai » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:02 pm

Image
Within a large charge cloud where the repulsion between the charges is cancelled out, the flow is held as a coherent stream by the attraction between forces moving in parallel. Any instability in velocity will cause greater magnetic fields in the faster region than the slower regions.
The faster region with the greater magnetic field will be pinched more, speeding up the flow, which increases the pinch and so on becoming longer and thinner. But the extension in length cannot be accommodated in a straight line. It can only force the stream to form a loop.

Image

I ran into this today by " chance ". :lol:

http://www.peter-thomson.co.uk/tornado/ ... rnado.html
an air current flowing over a hot ground surface, rises. As the air rises it starts to rotate, drawing air and dust in at ground level and carrying it upwards through the rotating column to discharge at the top. But note that a dust devil may rapidly become charged and turn into a charged sheath vortex.


Probably how this formed considering the a flaming ground could be considered a " hot surface ". :mrgreen:
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Re: Addendum: Waterspouts, landspouts and dust devils (part II)

Unread postby nick c » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:51 am

This thread is a compilation of the following threads:

2010 Brings First Tornado-Free February

Tornado Alley Field Mills

Fire tornado

Electrical Signatures Could Make Tornado [& Hurricane] Test

Plasma Inputs Equal Storm Fronts

Tornados and solar maximums?

Hurricane cyle linked to sunspot cycle

Addendum: Waterspouts, landspouts and dust devils (part II)
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Re: Earth - Tornados, Hurricanes, Typhoons....

Unread postby Goldminer » Thu Apr 14, 2011 3:33 am

Giant ocean whirlpools puzzle scientists:

Link

Image
Anton Yevseyev Pravda.Ru wrote: US scientists discovered two giant whirlpools in the Atlantic Ocean, off the coast of Guyana and Suriname. It became a sensational discovery because this part of the ocean has been studied thoroughly, and no one expected anything like that to appear in the area. More importantly, no one can understand where the whirlpools came from and what surprises they may bring to people.

According to Brazilian scientist Guilherme Castellane, the two funnels are approximately 400 kilometers in diameter. Until now, these were not known on Earth. The funnels reportedly exert a strong influence on climate changes that have been registered during the recent years.

"Funnels rotate clockwise. They are moving in the ocean like giant frisbees, two discs thrown into the air. Rotation occurs at a rate of one meter per second, the speed is sufficiently large compared to the speed of oceanic currents, on the border hoppers is a wave-step height of 40 cm," Castellane said.

Even during the dry months, when the movement of oceanic currents and the flow of the Amazon River practically comes to a standstill, the funnels do not disappear. Therefore, the nature of the funnels does not depend on the flow of water, which one of the world's biggest rivers brings into the ocean. The natural phenomenon, which creates the whirlpools, is unknown to modern science.

As a matter of fact, the phenomenon of giant whirlpools in the World Ocean is not new to science. In most cases, the craters, or rings, as scientists call them, are formed as a result of so-called vertical currents. The latter, in their turn, appear because of differences in water density which appear because of difference in temperatures of water layers. It is an open secret that cold water is thicker and heavier, so it goes down, underneath the masses of warm water, which is lighter. This is the reason why warm currents in the World Ocean always flow closer to the surface, whereas colder currents flow closer to the bottom.

However, such movement of water may not always depend on the difference of temperatures of the water column. The difference in salinity can also be a reason. The mechanism here is the same. The density of saltier water is higher, this water is heavier and it moves closer to the bottom, pushing less saltier water up. This type of vertical fusion occurs frequently in the tropics because high temperatures lead to the evaporation of water from the surface. The salt does not evaporate with water, though. It stays in the ocean, which raises the level of salinity on the upper layer of water. This layer "drowns" and gives way to less saltier waters of the depth.

Such vertical movements of water create giant whirlpools. The whirlpools, tens and even hundreds of kilometers in diameter, may last for months and even years, scientists say. The vertical movement of waters is a slow process, though. Why do those whirlpools exist for such a long time? This is partially the effect of Earth's magnetic field. In addition, marine water contains many charged ions, Na and Cl for example. To crown it all, water molecules are dipoles that are charged both positively and negatively.

Any dipole starts spinning when moving in the magnetic field. An oceanic ring gathers millions of billions of molecules together. That is why the giant circle movement triggered by the vertical movement of water may last for months and years mechanically. Ions also give more power to the craters. Natrium and Chlorum are charged as well, and their movement in the magnetic field of the Earth also leads to the appearance of the circle movement.

It is not ruled out that the reason for the appearance of the whirlpools off the coast of South America is the same as in other parts of the World Ocean. Scientists are currently studying the influence of those giant funnels on the climate of Latin America and Africa. Such whirlpools show influence on the atmosphere and form cyclonical air mass. They can also affect the movement of air mass formed in other places. For the time being, scientists do not know how the newly discovered water craters can affect the climate of Central and South Americas.



repost of article with this picture:

Image

I don't know if this second picture has anything to do with the phenomena but electrical currents seem to be involved.
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F4 Tornado NASA

Unread postby tolenio » Tue May 17, 2011 4:17 am

Hi All,

Interesting photo released by NASA of the monster tornado track in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, on April 27th…

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2011/16may_groundtracks/
Image
Another sample of ASTER tornado data showing three nearly-parallel tracks of destruction.


Do not forget UCLA Plasma lab’s mapping of a magnetic field… Complete with a z-pinch...

http://plasma.physics.ucla.edu/pages/gallery.html
Image

What happens when you overlay the two...

Image

As I have indicated in the past the equatorial neural point appears to be the strongest plasma injection point, and that matches the placement of the monster Aster F4 tornado. The electromotive force of grounding plasma stirs the air and seeds the tornado.

This same planetary plasma mapping denotes the beginning of earth's Pacific Ring of Fire when appied on a planetary scale.

Equatorial z-pinch third neural point to right not depicted.
Image

I wonder if only in F4 monster tornadoes do you see seeding of the weaker polar counterparts?

Interesting correlation anyway.

Later,
Tom

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Re: F4 Tornado NASA

Unread postby Sparky » Wed May 18, 2011 10:37 am

Indeed, an Interesting correlation..well done!

Seems i have seen tornadoes dancing around one another...

What plasma correlation could be found there.?

Birkeland currents twisting?
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Re: F4 Tornado NASA

Unread postby tolenio » Wed May 18, 2011 11:09 am

Hello,

My personal opinion is that the equatorial third magnetic neural point, located near Thailand, just west of a Birkeland z-pinch allows plasma to enter the magnetosphere, forming plasmoids. These trapped plasmas drift eastwards and a charged plasmoid seeks charge equalization. This can only be achieved via grounding to negative earth.

If you look at a magnetic map of Alabama you will see a large areas of negative polarity (good grounding points) in the area of the recent F4 tornado.

Image

The elctromotive force of flowing current charge equalization does the rest.

Science 22 September 1967:
Vol. 157 no. 3795 pp. 1434-1436
DOI: 10.1126/science.157.3795.1434

Electric Currents Accompanying Tornado Activity
1. Marx Brook

Abstract

Measurements of the magnetic field and earth current in the vicinity of a tornado show large steplike deflections coincident with the touching down of the funnel. Calculations with a simple current model indicate that a minimum current of several hundred amperes must be postulated to account for the observed deflection in magnetic field. The existence of a steady current of 225 amperes for a period of about 10 minutes provides joule heat at the rate of approximately 1010 joules per second, and involves a total charge transfer of 135,000 coulombs. The calculations imply that a tornado is electrically equivalent to several hundred isolated thunderstorm cells active simultaneously.


The plasma injection point is here;

Image

By overlaying a magnetic field intensity map to a gravity anomaly map you can see how the plasma injection affects gravity in the area;

Image

I have read some theories that gravity waves are associated with tornadoes too.

If you overlay Sea Surface Tempurature anomalies you get this;

Image

This leads to el nino and la nina climate cycles based on solar cycle intensity and rate of solar plasma injection to the third equatorial magnetic neural point.

I suspect this third neural point shifts latitude based on polar magnetic intensity (squeezed in between poles) forming plasmoids at various latitudes. The plasmoids then move eastwards looking for a grounding point.

The UCLA plasma lab has mapped the magnetic field of such a z-pinch and it matches earth's equatorial plasma magnetics;

Image

Image

What happens at a planetary scale with solar plasma and the north/south/equatorial neural point is then simply scaled down and repeats as a tornado or earthquake (electromotive force, right hand rule) event as the trapped plasmoid seeks charge equalization.

All plasma events are 100% scalable.

Later,
Tom
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Re: F4 Tornado NASA

Unread postby CTJG 1986 » Wed May 18, 2011 11:34 am

Edit: Just saw your last post Tolenio, thanks for some very helpful information and what to me is a solid theory.

So what exactly is the official EU view of tornado's?

I'm assuming the simplistic suggestion that a tornado is a single dark-mode Birkeland current formed as an ionized channel between highly-energized plasma in the atmosphere and the Earth's surface dissipating large amounts of charge steadily for a brief period of time?

A small, weak tornado would be a single current flowing downwards from the atmosphere to Earth for a very brief time, with larger tornado's such as the F4 with multiple vortexes possibly indicating multi-directional current flow as equalization is sought, correct?

The two periphery twisters in that case could possibly have been the current going upwards from Earth to atmosphere while the main destructive vortex was the larger flow of energy coming downwards. The large amount of energy is being input into the Earth at the central vortex and spreading outward and the Earth compensates by forming the currents carrying away the excess charge again upwards into the atmosphere maintaining a brief cycle - activity possibly relative to underground Earth/telluric currents.

Of course each twister would have multiple filaments within it forming a single current. Excess charge from a smaller system(and larger ones as well) would be "cycled" through ground-to-cloud discharges/energy transfers and such around the periphery of the charged plasma/cloud formation, yes?

Every time I see a tornado a Birkeland current is the first thing I think of, especially in the formation process when a filamentary structure is often definable.

Could a more intense current generated through this terrestrial manner produce some of the type of EU "EDM" phenomena commonly attributed to interplanetary discharges? (the long valleys cut by a rotating vortex discharge and such)

Looking at some of the animations provided in EU video's of such rotating vortex discharges on Mars I couldn't help but think of a typical though much more highly charged tornado system being generated due to simple fluctuations in the natural energy grid of Mars due to non-interplanetary discharges.

But I got the distinct impression from those videos that all of those types of features are the result of interplanetary discharges, not natural interactions with the Solar Systems electrical environment/"Solar Wind" or such.

So I am just curious what the official EU view of those discharges (on Mars or anywhere else) is - are they byproducts of the interplanetary discharges causing loss of electrical equilibrium in the planet's environment spawning intense storms to dissipate energy and return to equilibrium or are they all direct interplanetary discharges themselves?

A little of both?
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Re: F4 Tornado NASA

Unread postby tolenio » Wed May 18, 2011 11:45 am

Hello,

I belive that the "Hour Glass Sea" of Mars, and the red spot of Jupiter are artifacts of third equatorial neural magnetic points similar to the one on Earth located near Thailand.

All created by solar plasma injections to the planet's third equatorial magnetic neural point.

It should be a common theme in planets and sun's.

To see it in a sun look to its heliosphere and IBEX data;

Image

This is where Phi comes into play. The path of least resistance taken by energy in a semi closed system. Does that sentence apply to a Birkland currents?

Tom
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