Earth - Tornados, Hurricanes, Typhoons....

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Earth - Tornados, Hurricanes, Typhoons....

Unread postby StefanR » Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:26 am

Gravity Waves Make Tornados

Did you know that there's a new breakfast food that helps meteorologists predict severe storms? Down South they call it "GrITs."
GrITs stands for Gravity wave Interactions with Tornadoes. "It's a computer model I developed to study how atmospheric gravity waves interact with severe storms," says research meteorologist Tim Coleman of the National Space Science and Technology Center in Huntsville, Alabama.

According to Coleman, wave-storm interactions are very important. If a gravity wave hits a rotating thunderstorm, it can sometimes spin that storm up into a tornado.

What is an atmospheric gravity wave? Coleman explains: "They are similar to waves on the surface of the ocean, but they roll through the air instead of the water. Gravity is what keeps them going. If you push water up and then it plops back down, it creates waves. It's the same with air."

"You can see gravity waves everywhere," he continues. "When I drove in to work this morning, I saw some waves in the clouds. I even think about wave dynamics on the water when I go fishing now."

Gravity waves get started when an impulse disturbs the atmosphere. An impulse could be, for instance, a wind shear, a thunderstorm updraft, or a sudden change in the jet stream. Gravity waves go billowing out from these disturbances like ripples around a rock thrown in a pond.

When a gravity wave bears down on a rotating thunderstorm, it compresses the storm. This, in turn, causes the storm to spin faster. To understand why, Coleman describes an ice skater spinning with her arms held straight out. "Her spin increases when she pulls her arms inward." Ditto for spinning storms: When they are compressed by gravity waves, they spin faster to conserve angular momentum.

"There is also wind shear in a gravity wave, and the storm can take that wind shear and tilt it and make even more spin. All of these factors may increase storm rotation, making it more powerful and more likely to produce a tornado."

"We've also seen at least one case of a tornado already on the ground (in Birmingham, Alabama, on April 8, 1998) which may have become more intense as it interacted with a gravity wave."

Editor's note: The gravity waves of this story should not be confused with the gravitational waves of astrophysics. One is an ordinary wave of water or air; the other is a ripple in the fabric of spacetime itself.
Last edited by nick c on Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: title changed/merged threads
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.
User avatar
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:31 pm
Location: Amsterdam

Re: Addendum: Waterspouts, landspouts and dust devils (part II)

Unread postby StefanR » Tue Apr 01, 2008 2:51 am

These mystifying clouds are called Polar Mesospheric Clouds, or PMCs, when they are viewed from space and referred to as "night-shining" clouds or Noctilucent Clouds, when viewed by observers on Earth. The clouds form in an upper layer of the Earth’s atmosphere called the mesosphere during the Northern Hemisphere’s summer season which began in mid-May and extends through the end of August and are being seen by AIM’s instruments more frequently as the season progresses. They are also seen in the high latitudes during the summer months in the Southern Hemisphere.

On June 11, 2007 the cameras on the AIM satellite returned some of the first data documenting noctilucent clouds over the Arctic regions of Europe and North America. This new data reveals the global extent and structure of these mysterious clouds, to a degree that was previously unattainable. White and light blue represent noctilucent cloud structures. Black indicates areas where no data is available. Credit: Cloud Imaging and Particle Size Experiment data processing team at the University of Colorado Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.
User avatar
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:31 pm
Location: Amsterdam

The Charge Sheath Vortex

Unread postby lizzie » Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:58 pm

The Charge Sheath Vortex - A self organised structure for the Tornado

Re: The Charge Sheath Vortex

Unread postby MGmirkin » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:23 pm

lizzie wrote:The Charge Sheath Vortex - A self organised structure for the Tornado

Yes, this has been quoted a few times (by me and others) on the old "Thunderbolts Forum 1.0"

Still working on the static archive reconstruction... Will get there eventually. Have most of the extraneous stuff taken out by now. Really just need to work on the structure and get all the links working again from the old cached copies retrieved from Google. I'm hoping it won't be TOO much longer. But will take as long as it takes, using what time I've got free. ;o]

I somehow doubt I've saved more than 1/3 of hte old forum, despite the fact I did manage to grab quite a bit of it. Will have to salvage more as new (old) stuff comes to light... But, the "[Electrical?] Waterspouts, Landspouts and Dust Devils, Oh My!" thread will definitely be one of those resurrected in the static archive.

~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law
User avatar
Posts: 1667
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Beaverton, Oregon, USA

A Cell Dynamical System Model for Thundercloud Electrificati

Unread postby StefanR » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:38 pm

This is quite a conclusion, I must say :shock: :shock: :!:

A Cell Dynamical System Model for Thundercloud Electrification

A cell dynamical system model is developed for thundercloud electrification by consideration of microscopic domain eddy dynamical processes in the atmospheric boundary layer (ABL). This non-deterministic model based on cellular automata computational technique enables formulation of simple scale invariant governing equations for cloud electrical parameters in terms of non-dimensional steady state mass and momentum fluxes in the ABL.

The exact mechanism for the electrification of thunderclouds and the spectacular lightning phenomenon is still in dispute (1). At present there exist two models with distinctly different conceptual basis for cloud electrification. The first model, originally proposed by Elster and Geitel in 1985 (2) postulates that relative fall speeds of precipitation particles give rise to charge separation with charges of one sign residing exclusively on larger precipitation particles. Heavier particles are postulated to carry negative charges thereby accounting for the negatively charged cloud-base. This model cannot account for the origin of the cloud charges conclusively and further, ignores totally the convection currents (turbulent eddies) inside the cloud.

The second model, originally proposed by Grenet in 1947 and later in a refined form by Vonnegut in 1953(2) postulates that convection currents are solely responsible for charge separation and ignores completely the role of precipitation. According to this model, the naturally occurring vertical space charge distribution with negative excess at higher layers is redistributed by convection currents, i.e., the negative space charges from above cloud layers are brought down to cloud base in downdrafts and the positive space charges from below cloud base are transferred to cloud top regions by updrafts thereby giving rise to a positive dipole structure in the cloud.

The above two models for cloud electrification are both unrealistic since the elementary precipitation hypothesis invokes no convection while the convection hypothesis invokes no precipitation, though it is an observational fact that convection and precipitation are inseparable in clouds large enough to produce lightning. Further, both the models can account for only positive dipole cloud electrical structure while observations indicate a tripolar structure for cloud electrification, namely, in addition to the main positive dipole there is a small pocket of positive charges at cloud-base below the main negative charge center. Cloud electrification is intimately connected with the dynamics of cloud growth processes and therefore model formulations require a complete understanding of the microscopic domain cloud dynamical processes. In this paper a cell dynamical system model (3) for cloud growth and electrification is developed by consideration of microscopic domain eddy dynamical processes. The model enables formulation of scale invariant governing equations for the cloud charging processes. To begin with, a brief summary of latest developments in the modelling of dynamical systems, in particular, the concept of deterministic chaos is presented in the context of modelling the cloud electrification processes.


The cell dynamical system model for cloud electrification enables to formulate simple model concepts for cloud electrification processes. In summary, the vigorous counterflow characterizing the internal structure of atmospheric large eddy circulation transport the naturally occurring negative space charges from above cloud-top regions to the cloud base and simultaneously transport the naturally occurring positive space charges from below cloud-base to the cloud top regions and thereby account for the commonly observed positive dipole structure of the average thundercloud. The small pocket of positive charges observed at the cloud-base of intense mature thunderclouds may form as a result of generation, within the cloud, of a double vortex roll circulation such that a dominant downcurrent extending from the cloud top to the cloud-base brings down positively charged precipitation particles from cloud top to form a pocket of positive charge at cloud-base. Observations show that microbursts releasing heavy precipitation and / or heavy downdrafts occur in regions of the positive pocket of charge at cloud-base. Increase in ozone levels have also been reported underneath such pockets of positive charge probably by downward transport of ozone from stratospheric levels. In summary, the cell dynamical system model for cloud electrification leads to the following conclusions. (a) Negative charges from the ionospheric level and positive charges released by corona discharge at the planetary surface are the main sources for cloud electrification, (b) Small scale nested continuum of vortex roll circulations inside the cloud are mainly responsible for the transport of charges and later attachment to precipitation particle, (c) The small scale vortices with bi-directional flow structure inside the cloud trace out the quasiperiodic Penrose tiling pattern with self selfsimilar fractal geometry manifested as the distinctive cauliflower like surface granularity to the cumulus cloud generated by cloud water condensation and dissipation respectively in adjacent small scale up and downdrafts, (d) The observed visible structure of lightning discharge has fractal geometry consistent with the concept of bi-directional electric current flow in a selfsimilar fractal network of the quasiperiodic Penrose tiling pattern, (e) The observed inverse power-law form for peak received amplitude for electromagnetic signals radiated by lightning (30) in consistent with the observed inverse power-law form for the atmospheric eddy energy structure (20) (f). The observed log-normal frequency distribution of lightning current amplitude (30) is consistent since the cloud charging currents circulate at the eddy circulation speed W which inherently follows log-normal distribution from Eq.9 since Z, the scale ratio follows normal distribution because R = S r and Z = R / r, (g) The scale invariant characteristics of atmospheric eddy dynamical processes enables to formulate simple scale invariant governing equations in terms of the non-dimensional universal functions k and f for the vertical profile of cloud electrical parameters (22-23).

Further the above described two-way charge transport mechanism from the ionosphere to the earth's surface occurs less vigorously in the fair weather regions of the globe and generates the fair weather atmospheric electric field (31). The vigorous turbulence scale counterflow of negative charges downwards and positive charges upwards extend upto the ionospheric levels and above (32) to form the 'double layers' in the auroral potential structure of the auroral curtains in the auroral oval. The beautiful shimmering curtains of auroras in the auroral oval are the visible manifestation of charge transport or energy exchange between the upper and lower atmosphere by the agency of the turbulent eddies or vortices and generates the fair weather atmospheric electric field and a corresponding horizontal component of the geomagnetic field. The structure of the charged counterflow as manifested in the visible aurorae is found to be a series of vortices between the double layers of opposite charges. High speed television cameras pointing upward at the bottom of the auroral curtain have captured images of such vortices and it has been confirmed that the auroral potential structure also accelerates positive ions upwards, indeed, such ions become at times a significant part of magnetospheric plasma (34). The mechanism of generation of the fair weather electric field and the cloud electric field is exactly the same. The direction of the electric field inside a thundercloud is the same as that of the fair weather electric field, but of a very high intensity because of vigorous charge separation by the intense small scale vertical mixing and confinement of charges within the vertical cloud volume by attachment to precipitation particles held aloft by the air currents. The thundercloud is therefore a steady state self-organized 'double layer' consisting of inherent small scale double layers and acts as an efficient generator of electrical power from the solar wind coupled ionospheric charge supply. The frequently reported horizontal travel path for lightning discharges maybe due to the adjacent positive and negative charge concentrations in the double layers of the small scale eddy circulations.


The cell dynamical system model enables formulation of simple scale invariant governing equations for cloud dynamical and electrical processes.
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.
User avatar
Posts: 1371
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:31 pm
Location: Amsterdam

Hurricane cyle linked to sunspot cycle

Unread postby squiz » Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:04 pm

A recent study suggests that hurricane intensity may be linked to the number of sunspots on the sun. Decrease in the number of sunspots may be related to increase in hurricane intensity.

Now I find this a little amusing, I found a grade 10 study on Weather anomalies and natural disasters.

His conclusions -

- Hurricanes correlate with sunspots in a rather unusual way: there are about two hurricane cycles in every sunspot cycle. The separation of hurricane data into two parts (years around the solar maximum and years around the solar minimum) produced a correlation of 0.49 (with the 1 year time lag) for the first set of data and an anti-correlation, -0.35, for the second set of data (also with the 1 year time lag).

So this kid confirmed the link a few years ago, Man that is sweet. :D :D :D
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:05 am

Electrical Signatures Could Make Tornado [& Hurricane] Test

Unread postby mnemeth1 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:42 am ... -test.html

This is huge.

Tornado hunters may have a new, unlikely ally – electricity. Armed with only an antenna mounted on top of a vehicle and a simple receiver, researchers have been able to pick up low-frequency electromagnetic waves – a possible sign that a tornado is brewing. The frequency of the signal should even be able to tell them the ferocity of the storm.

I think as they dig deeper, it will become apparent that there is a connection between space and the Earth.

At least this is a good sign they are pointed in the right direction finally.
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Electrical storm signatures could make tornado test

Unread postby MGmirkin » Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:44 pm

About time they started figuring this out! Lord knows, we've had the suspicion for a while...

(A Electromagnetic Basis for the Initiation of a Tornado.)

(Stabilization of a High-Voltage Discharge by a Vortex.)

(Electric Currents Accompanying Tornado Activity)

(On the geo-electromagnetic aspects of tornado initiation)

(Electrical Discharges and Intense Vortices)

(On Possibility of Electromagnetic Nature of Atmospheric Intensive Vortices Generation)

(An Electric Force Facilitator in Descending TVS Tornadogenesis)

(Electric field and Lorentz force contribution to atmospheric vortex phenomena)

(Electrical Theory of Tornadoes)

Seems there's a fair bit of prior art on the subject... ;)

~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law
User avatar
Posts: 1667
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Beaverton, Oregon, USA

Plasma Inputs Equal Storm Fronts

Unread postby tolenio » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:03 pm


I have animated the "A Index" into a smoothed line graph and animated it move eastward. This was then overlaid to the WLLN lightening animations for the Pacific and North American loops.

The data source was for 30 days of A index data but I only used approximately 20 days of graphed data for this overlay. The overlay corresponds all the way to Western Europe but is not included simply for ease of viewing.

The short loop can be seen here;

The movement of the plasma eastwards becomes obvious with eddies following the path of lest resistance (phi) when the air warmed by the plasma sheers off wjem ot omteracts wotj colder air into eddies shearing some plasma off with it.

The upper atmosphere is then heated by plasma and the plasma makes the atmosphere more dense, as it moves eastward. This results in warm fronts, and high barometric pressure fronts, and weather fronts. moving eastward.

UV band engergy heats directly causing average seasonal temperatures. The add on of plasma leaking into the magnetoshere adds additional heat energery moving eastward and results in above average seasonal temperatures.

The reason for the plasma to move towards the euator is due to polarity. Solar wind polarity of the same polarity leaking into magnetosphereic cracks, once inside, would be repulsed by the magnetosphere to the weaker magnetic field areas found at the equator. This is very evident in South America where there are many negatively charged lightening strikes..

That is my hypothesis.

The big idea to think about is the movement of polarized plasma that leaks inside a polarized magnetic field, not unlike solar plasma leaking inside the magnetosphere. Knock-on and knock-off effects must be taken into consideration.

"The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves." Gospel of Thomas
User avatar
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:17 am

Tornados and solar maximums?

Unread postby Drethon » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:44 am

I'm sure this has been discussed before but I was looking at a local weather blog discussing the worst tornado in Michigan history (4-3-1956). Michigan doesn't see very many tornadoes, some years you can count the total number on your hand, so seeing a large tornado is a rare event. If the information is correct,the list below shows the only tornadoes F-4 or larger reported in Michigan by the NWS Grand Rapids County Warning Area.

Notice all but once occur in April and by eyeballing the wiki sunspot graph ( it appears that all of the major tornadoes occurred during the highest point of the sunspot period.

April is when the earth has recently turned from the furthest point away from the sun and started moving to the second closest point to the sun in its orbit (I believe Winter is a closer point). Any ideas on why this would lead to higher occurrences in strong tornadoes?

04-03-1956 1845 EST Deaths: 17 Injuries: 340 F-Scale: F-5
Counties: Allegan,Ottawa, Kent, Montcalm

04-11-1965 1754 EST Deaths: 05 Injuries: 142 F-Scale: F-4
Counties: Ottawa, Kent

04-11-1965 2015 EST Deaths: 01 Injuries: 08 F-Scale: F-4
Counties: Clinton, Shiawassee

04-21-1967 2015 EST Deaths: 00 Injuries: 08 F-Scale: F-4
Counties: Clinton

04-02-1977 1432 EST Deaths: 00 Injuries: 10 F-Scale: F-4
County: Kalamazoo

04-02-1977 1506 EST Deaths: 01 Injuries: 44 F-Scale: F-4
County: Eaton

The other F-5 tornado was the Flint-Beecher Tornado which killed 116
and injured 785 in Genesee and Lapeer County, 06-08-1953
Posts: 152
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:20 am

Re: Tornados and solar maximums?

Unread postby redeye » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:33 am

the list below shows the only tornadoes F-4 or larger reported in Michigan by the NWS Grand Rapids County Warning Area

The Enhanced Fujita scale for tornados reflects the amount of damage they cause and is more acurately a measure of wind speed. If a large tornado crosses the desert and doesn't touch anything human it would be an EF1, if a much smaller tornado passes over a town and causes all sorts of mayhem it will register much higher on the scale.

I'm just trying to point out that the Fujita scale doesn't measure the specific intensity of a toranado and won't give an accurate picture of tornado intensity for a region over a period of time. I totally agree with your point about sunspot activity affecting the frequency of tornados though. The instances of cloud to ground lightning drop gradually as the tornado starts to build and reach the ground - the lightning then returns to normal as the tornado is spent and breaks up. I believe this shows that a tornado is basically an electrical artifact that is directly related to the potential gradient between the Surface of the earth and the tropopause.

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our mind."
Bob Marley
User avatar
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:56 am
Location: Dunfermline

Re: Tornados and solar maximums?

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:37 am

Hi Drethon,
Interesting. The April dates would put them just after the spring equinox, i.e. when the day and night are of equal length. Just a thought, don't know if it is of any relevance.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.
Grey Cloud
Posts: 2477
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:47 am
Location: NW UK

Electrical signatures could make tornado & hurricane test

Unread postby MGmirkin » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:07 am

Not to be outdone, hurricanes have now made the electrical "most wanted" list, in addition to tornadoes!

It seems that lightning activity in the central region of a hurricane is highly correlated with subsequent windspeed of the hurricane. If there's a giant jump in lightning activity, it seems the hurricane speeds up within about 30 hours... Here are a couple independent articles:

(Lightning Helps Predict Hurricane Fury) ... ane_Fury_2

MSNBC wrote:Initially packing winds of 90 miles per hour, Nargis caught forecasters by surprise when it suddenly intensified until winds reached 130 miles per hour just hours before landfall on May 2. New research is suggesting forecasters could have seen the danger coming, if only they had been watching the storm's lightning patterns carefully.

...Natalia Solorzano of Bard High School Early College in New York and a team of researchers found that with Nargis, large spikes in lightning activity occurred near the eye wall 36 hours before its deadly intensification.

They then go on to talk about "eyewall replacement"...

(Lightning Good Predictor of Hurricane Intensity?) ... _Intensity ... canes.html

National Geographic wrote:Lightning may help improve hurricane forecasts by signaling when the storms are about to reach peak intensity, according to a new study.


"The lightning and wind speeds are fairly well correlated, with the lightning peaking [about 30 hours] before the maximum wind," said Colin Price, a lightning researcher at Tel Aviv University in Israel.

"The lightning gives you a precursor to the development of the hurricane."


Price's team [found] a connection between increased lightning and higher wind speed in more than 95 percent of the storms. In more than 70 percent, lightning activity peaked about 30 hours before maximum winds.

Methinks they begin to see... But will they begin to understand?

~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law
User avatar
Posts: 1667
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Beaverton, Oregon, USA

Re: Electrical Signatures Could Make Tornado [& Hurricane] Test

Unread postby MGmirkin » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:32 am

And, it seems to make sense in light of NASA's own stories from 2005-2006:

(Electric Hurricanes) ... icanes.htm ... icane.html

(Science@NASA Feature Stories - Podcasts - Electric Hurricanes Episode)

~Michael Gmirkin
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law
User avatar
Posts: 1667
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:00 pm
Location: Beaverton, Oregon, USA

Re: Electrical Signatures Could Make Tornado [& Hurricane] Test

Unread postby mharratsc » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:59 pm

On a side note thereof-

Does anyone suppose that- if they raised a bunch of ginormous lightning arrestors across the western advance point of Tornado Alley- that they could alleviate some or most of the most dramatic effects of tornadoes forming in that area?

I think there is a high probability that, since that area of North America gets regularly swept by tornadoes, that the area in question is one of the most dramatic conduction points for subterranean electrical discharges. IF then, they made more conductive pathways for the charges to equalize, then tornadoe formation would be abated.

Don't you think?

It would be a pretty cheap experiment if you think about it- some radio towers and some really conductive cable is all.
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington
Posts: 1402
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:37 am
Location: Maplewood, MN


Return to Electric Universe - Planetary Science

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest