'Welease Wosetta!'

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby D_Archer » Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:46 am

viscount aero wrote:
flyingcloud wrote:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150602153530.htm

A close-up of Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko by NASA's ultraviolet instrument surprised scientists by revealing that electrons close to the comet's surface -- not photons from the sun as had been believed -- cause the rapid breakup of water and carbon dioxide molecules spewing from the surface.


I'll revisit this because it raises another point about radiolysis at the surface: That they don't see photons at the surface 100% obliterates their dirty snowball theory even though many other things already do. This is yet another thing that renders their mainstream theory falsified.

But wait... they hold onto their mainstream theory using this part of the sentence: "...electrons...not photons from the sun as had been believed -- cause the rapid breakup of water and carbon dioxide molecules spewing from the surface."

Read it again and catch how they keep the dirty snowball theory in play by stating "...electrons......cause the rapid breakup of water and carbon dioxide molecules spewing from the surface." Even though this finding really does seriously nullify dirty snowball theory, it clearly doesn't for them. For them, the water must be "broken up" and "spewing" versus radiolsys where the water is being created at the surface--not broken up or spewing (with "spewing" implying the melting of subsurface ice which has already long been found to not exist anywhere).


I still have a problem with this "water", i do not think they actually detected it, they assume water was present before the interaction.

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby querious » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:54 am

querious wrote:
dodeca wrote:So activity in the dark side now....can a "standard model" person explain this to me?

To play devil's advocate, it depends on if dust sitting in front of the dark area is just being illuminated from above. Hopefully it IS actual jetting from the dark side, but this is very inconclusive, especially considering how diffuse it appears.



This is great. It is unmistakable now that there are jets clearly coming from the shadowed portion of the comet.
Last edited by querious on Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby viscount aero » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:08 am

D_Archer wrote:
viscount aero wrote:
flyingcloud wrote:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150602153530.htm

A close-up of Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko by NASA's ultraviolet instrument surprised scientists by revealing that electrons close to the comet's surface -- not photons from the sun as had been believed -- cause the rapid breakup of water and carbon dioxide molecules spewing from the surface.


I'll revisit this because it raises another point about radiolysis at the surface: That they don't see photons at the surface 100% obliterates their dirty snowball theory even though many other things already do. This is yet another thing that renders their mainstream theory falsified.

But wait... they hold onto their mainstream theory using this part of the sentence: "...electrons...not photons from the sun as had been believed -- cause the rapid breakup of water and carbon dioxide molecules spewing from the surface."

Read it again and catch how they keep the dirty snowball theory in play by stating "...electrons......cause the rapid breakup of water and carbon dioxide molecules spewing from the surface." Even though this finding really does seriously nullify dirty snowball theory, it clearly doesn't for them. For them, the water must be "broken up" and "spewing" versus radiolsys where the water is being created at the surface--not broken up or spewing (with "spewing" implying the melting of subsurface ice which has already long been found to not exist anywhere).


I still have a problem with this "water", i do not think they actually detected it, they assume water was present before the interaction.

Regards,
Daniel


They allege through the decades to detect water vapor.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Steve Smith » Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:56 am

An unexpected discovery:

NASA Instrument on Rosetta Makes Comet Atmosphere Discovery

Data collected by NASA's Alice instrument aboard the European Space Agency's Rosetta spacecraft reveal that electrons close to the surface of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko -- not photons from the sun, as had been believed -- cause the rapid breakup of water and carbon dioxide molecules spewing from the comet's surface.

"The discovery we're reporting is quite unexpected," said Alan Stern, principal investigator for the Alice instrument at the Southwest Research Institute (SwRI) in Boulder, Colorado. "It shows us the value of going to comets to observe them up close, since this discovery simply could not have been made from Earth or Earth orbit with any existing or planned observatory. And, it is fundamentally transforming our knowledge of comets."
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby dodeca » Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:13 am

Wow, they can make up whatever they like:

The OSIRIS team think that the comet can store the incoming heat for some time beneath its surface, resulting in sustained activity from these regions even after nightfall.

“While the dust covering the comet’s surface cools rapidly after sunset, deeper layers remain warm for a longer period of time,” says OSIRIS scientist Xian Shi from the MPS, who is studying the sunset jets.

Image

http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/2015/06/08/sunset-jets/
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby D_Archer » Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:33 am

Steve Smith wrote:An unexpected discovery:

NASA Instrument on Rosetta Makes Comet Atmosphere Discovery

Data collected by NASA's Alice instrument aboard the European Space Agency's Rosetta spacecraft reveal that electrons close to the surface of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko -- not photons from the sun, as had been believed -- cause the rapid breakup of water and carbon dioxide molecules spewing from the comet's surface.

"The discovery we're reporting is quite unexpected," said Alan Stern, principal investigator for the Alice instrument at the Southwest Research Institute (SwRI) in Boulder, Colorado. "It shows us the value of going to comets to observe them up close, since this discovery simply could not have been made from Earth or Earth orbit with any existing or planned observatory. And, it is fundamentally transforming our knowledge of comets."


Steve,

What do you think about the assumed process of H20 disassociation via electrons? EU predicts interaction with solar wind electrons/ions at the surface and of course reaction with electrons is possible 1 km away from the surface. But water production from rock? OH is probable, where a solar wind H ion bonds with an O from the rock, after discharge. But actual water production on the surface?

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby viscount aero » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:48 am

dodeca wrote:Wow, they can make up whatever they like:

The OSIRIS team think that the comet can store the incoming heat for some time beneath its surface, resulting in sustained activity from these regions even after nightfall.

“While the dust covering the comet’s surface cools rapidly after sunset, deeper layers remain warm for a longer period of time,” says OSIRIS scientist Xian Shi from the MPS, who is studying the sunset jets.


They need to hold onto their theory as long as possible. Dirty snowball theory cannot be disproven for them. It must stay no matter what data is found.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Steve Smith » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:35 am

Daniel,

Water of crystallization is most likely a primary component of 67P.

I know that the Electric Universe viewpoint is that comets are bone dry and that the putative water vapor seen near some of them is really hydroxyly molecules formed in a process such as you (and others) suggest. This has always bothered me, even when I was writing papers in support of the idea. I'm not suggesting a new electric model of comets but a logical extrapolation from Electric Universe theories.

Since it is presumed that a significant volume of rock and dust was blasted-out of planetary and other rocky bodies in the past, then it seems reasonable to me that a large volume of water was included with the crustal material from Earth. Therefore, I don't have a problem with water on 67P. However, it is water of hydration, since liquid water, or even frozen water, has a hard time existing in a vacuum.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby viscount aero » Fri Jun 12, 2015 9:27 am

Steve Smith wrote:Daniel,

Water of crystallization is most likely a primary component of 67P.

I know that the Electric Universe viewpoint is that comets are bone dry and that the putative water vapor seen near some of them is really hydroxyly molecules formed in a process such as you (and others) suggest. This has always bothered me, even when I was writing papers in support of the idea. I'm not suggesting a new electric model of comets but a logical extrapolation from Electric Universe theories.

Since it is presumed that a significant volume of rock and dust was blasted-out of planetary and other rocky bodies in the past, then it seems reasonable to me that a large volume of water was included with the crustal material from Earth. Therefore, I don't have a problem with water on 67P. However, it is water of hydration, since liquid water, or even frozen water, has a hard time existing in a vacuum.


I think that is a viable theory and a strong one. Water of hydration, as you know, exists on Earth in great abundance.
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Philae Lander Found Finally?

Unread postby FS3 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 11:18 am

The quest to find Philae

Almost inside the boundary of the CONSERT-ellipse:
Image

By comparing older pics with newer images THIS looks promising;
Image

...‘Before’ and ‘after’ comparison images of a promising candidate located near the CONSERT ellipse as seen in images from the OSIRIS Narrow-Angle Camera. Each box covers roughly 20 x 20 m on Comet 67P/C-G.
The left-hand image shows the region as seen on 22 October (before the landing of Philae) from a distance of about 10 km from the centre of Comet 67P/C-G, while the centre and right-hand images shows the same region on 12 and 13 December from 20 km (after landing). The candidate is only seen in the two later images.
The illumination conditions are broadly similar in the three images and the same topography can be recognised in each case. The difference in distance at which the images were taken yields a difference in resolution and thus the December images have been resampled and interpolated to match the scale of the October image. As a result, the candidate covers more pixels calculated for a Philae-sized object seen by the OSIRIS narrow-angle camera from a distance of 18 km to the surface.
Credits: ESA/Rosetta/MPS for OSIRIS Team MPS/UPD/LAM/IAA/SSO/INTA/UPM/DASP/IDA ...


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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Frantic » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:23 pm

viscount aero wrote:
Steve Smith wrote:Daniel,

Water of crystallization is most likely a primary component of 67P.

I know that the Electric Universe viewpoint is that comets are bone dry and that the putative water vapor seen near some of them is really hydroxyly molecules formed in a process such as you (and others) suggest. This has always bothered me, even when I was writing papers in support of the idea. I'm not suggesting a new electric model of comets but a logical extrapolation from Electric Universe theories.

Since it is presumed that a significant volume of rock and dust was blasted-out of planetary and other rocky bodies in the past, then it seems reasonable to me that a large volume of water was included with the crustal material from Earth. Therefore, I don't have a problem with water on 67P. However, it is water of hydration, since liquid water, or even frozen water, has a hard time existing in a vacuum.


I think that is a viable theory and a strong one. Water of hydration, as you know, exists on Earth in great abundance.


Well that has been my assumption since we got the first pictures back in what...August? Viscount Aero, Seasmith, and myself have all pointed out this object is most likely a form of olivine which contains aquesous silica. Seasmith called it a breccia conglomerate. Viscount and myself went as far as calling it olivine. But apparently we are wrong, its just ice :)

I think the more important elements of the solar wind are the C,N,O. Without which it would seem impossible to explain the compounds found in the comets atmosphere.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby D_Archer » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:21 am

Steve Smith wrote:Daniel,

Water of crystallization is most likely a primary component of 67P.


Steve,

Thank you for that. I am reading up on that process > http://www.lethbridgecollege.net/elearningcafe/images/stories/pdf/chm075_hydration.pdf
---

So only thing left it to take an actual sample of the rock and bring it home.

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Daniel
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby viscount aero » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:28 am

Frantic wrote:Well that has been my assumption since we got the first pictures back in what...August? Viscount Aero, Seasmith, and myself have all pointed out this object is most likely a form of olivine which contains aquesous silica. Seasmith called it a breccia conglomerate. Viscount and myself went as far as calling it olivine. But apparently we are wrong, its just ice :)

I think the more important elements of the solar wind are the C,N,O. Without which it would seem impossible to explain the compounds found in the comets atmosphere.


Thanks for remembering that. I remember that now. My premise was based on the evidence from the Stardust mission where crystals were found to have been created in extremely high heat conditions. I forget off hand what the list of compounds were but they required the presence of water in order to form--which indicates olivine. This would make the comet a form of shattered debris perhaps flung off a destroyed world's mantle.

Comets are more than likely a form of dross or slag borne in fiery conditions then frozen in space. Slag is a waste product created in a blast furnace. Comets resemble slag. Moreover, slag is also used in the manufacture of certain cements. A coma may be a form of cement-like aggregate. That is my theory. The hydration of slags is written up in this paper, for example: http://sts.bwk.tue.nl/josbrouwers/publi ... rnal39.pdf and here: http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... t_of_Al2O3

If the comet body is a type of natural cement or slag then it would indeed explain why the Philae lander's tether systems were designed for entirely incorrect conditions. Any ices on the comet may be merely scant residue from the collapsing coma/atmosphere in frozen outer space (considering that a coma's physical dimensions can grow to be the size of Jupiter or the Sun).
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Frantic » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:24 am

Philae turned back on.

The messed up so bad, that even had it worked they would have still messed it up. Had the ice harpoons actually worked, it would have left the lander in a position where the sun would be burning its electronics out. Because it managed to bounce its way into a crevice by sheer luck, they may end up with better data than had the original plan worked.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby viscount aero » Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:55 pm

Frantic wrote:Philae turned back on.

The messed up so bad, that even had it worked they would have still messed it up. Had the ice harpoons actually worked, it would have left the lander in a position where the sun would be burning its electronics out. Because it managed to bounce its way into a crevice by sheer luck, they may end up with better data than had the original plan worked.


Yes it's true; it has re-awakened. This is good news: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-33126885
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