'Welease Wosetta!'

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Rossim » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:48 pm

viscount aero wrote:
Rossim wrote:Well you can't be so driven on the EU theory that you become biased yourself, or you start to rely on faith in a theory. Water ice HAS been detected in very small amounts on the surface of Tempel 1 so you can see how that can be interpreted as a tiny strand of confirmation of a water ice comet, though it can be better explained by hydroxyl forming water in the coma left some on the surface. The observations which Rosetta will make will be undeniable in confirming the electric comet ideas.


I see what you're saying but you can't separate faith from theory ever. This forum is biased to EU theory, not the Standard Model. But people are open to being corrected here in general. If EU cannot explain something then I will not defend it. Most of the cosmos is unexplainable. It is my view that the Universe will never be explainable. Only glimpses of things will ever be known. But I assure you the Standard Model is fake. Comets are not icy bodies in general. They're more like rocks than chunks of ice mixed with rock. The volatiles coming from the comets are more than likely due to interaction of the coma with the solar wind forming a hydrochemical reaction, ie, hydroxyls. Any pure water will be created in situ and not from it being shed or erupted from a comet's interior.


And I agree with you, but just saying the Standard Model is wrong doesn't do any good. So far, most of the observations which the Thunderbolts team makes are qualitative because it's difficult to accurately probe certain phenomena. We're fortunate enough that ESA launched Rosetta, it's the best opportunity for the EU paradigm to get some real light.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby viscount aero » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:48 pm

Oh yes I remember this mission now :geek: The robot lander has so-called "ice tethers" on it when it touches down on the "ice" :lol:
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby viscount aero » Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:51 pm

Rossim wrote:And I agree with you, but just saying the Standard Model is wrong doesn't do any good. So far, most of the observations which the Thunderbolts team makes are qualitative because it's difficult to accurately probe certain phenomena. We're fortunate enough that ESA launched Rosetta, it's the best opportunity for the EU paradigm to get some real light.

Ok then very good. But saying the Standard Model is right doesn't do any good either :lol:
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby paladin17 » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:25 am

OK, I've watched the "show" (see my previous reply).
The only two important things that were said (by the ESA president) were that the lander is to be sent on November 11, and that the instrument data is supposed to be open to the community. I don't know which one though. :D
The apparatus is said to have accomplished the maneuver successfully and is now on the comet's orbit.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby GaryN » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:24 am

Hope they get a good look down the throat of that big hole at one end sometime.
http://rosetta.esa.int/images/Comet_on_ ... t_2014.jpg
Quite the mountain peaks, so there must have been tectonics and upthrusting? :D
http://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/imag ... lwidth.png
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby 4realScience » Wed Aug 06, 2014 3:56 pm

Mass of the Comet?

Today at about noon Eastern Standard Time I watched a video from ESA that was made a few hours before via the Livestream channel. In it, the hands-on guy said the following, and I paraphrase: 'We will now fly by the comet at 100 KM and watch it bend our flight path due to its gravity. Once we have the flight path we will be able to determine its mass. Then and only then will we be able to calculate how to go into precise orbit around it.'

OK, let's see what mass they come up with because back in 2012 some astronomers calculated the mass and came up with this value: 3.14 times 10 to the 12th power ±0.21 times 10 to the 12th power kg. They also estimated the density of 67P at 102 ±9 kg m-3. (Ice has a density of 919 kg per m-3 ).

Will be interesting to see what they come up with for the orbit mass. Will it be a rubble pile of fluff or a solid rock which is what it looks like so far, and full of craters and melted slag.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby goodsamaritan » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:55 am

ESA has released more pictures!

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space ... om_Rosetta

Is there any "ice" that can be discerned from these pictures?
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby GaryN » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:07 am

Image

Going back to Rosettas Steins asteroid observation, scientists were amazed that the impact that formed the large crater, had not destroyed it, but they believe that the impact shattered it and turned it into a rubble pile. The crater chain is composed of collapse pits along a fissure where the asteroid was nearly broken in half by the impact. Or, by a stream of meteoroids that impacted as the asteroid rotated. So is 67P/C-G now also a rubble pile, having been also been hit by a large impactor that did not destroy it? I think/hope the electrical nature of the forces that have shaped these objects must be begining to enter into a few scientists minds, just a matter of time before some brave 'whistle blower' scientist dares voice such opinion. Of course he'll be out of a job pretty quickly.

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0809/06rosetta/
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby viscount aero » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:21 am

GaryN wrote:Image

Going back to Rosettas Steins asteroid observation, scientists were amazed that the impact that formed the large crater, had not destroyed it, but they believe that the impact shattered it and turned it into a rubble pile. The crater chain is composed of collapse pits along a fissure where the asteroid was nearly broken in half by the impact. Or, by a stream of meteoroids that impacted as the asteroid rotated. So is 67P/C-G now also a rubble pile, having been also been hit by a large impactor that did not destroy it? I think/hope the electrical nature of the forces that have shaped these objects must be begining to enter into a few scientists minds, just a matter of time before some brave 'whistle blower' scientist dares voice such opinion. Of course he'll be out of a job pretty quickly.

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0809/06rosetta/


Crater chains and disproportionately large "impact craters" have been observed on asteroids and coma for years now. So the meme of being "baffled" over how the "impact didn't shatter the whole body" is now a tired and disingenuous response.

In my opinion, they should change their attitudes by showing it in print. How much longer will they repeat the same things about being baffled without offering another possible idea? In other words, instead of the trite and dismissive "bafflement" commentary, why are they seemingly vacant and incapable of uttering--in print--another idea? I find it hard to believe that an intelligent scientist with myriad tools, exposure to other schools of thought rampant on the internet, and access to knowledge cannot find another idea. Therefore the public declaration of perpetual "bafflement" is not believable.

Clearly the impactor idea is false. It didn't happen. So they can stop thinking about it and move onto another idea and say it publicly. It is overdue. Resisting offering other ideas at this point is simply intellectually dishonest.

And the crater chain commentary must change, also. Crater chains are evident in thousands of objects by now. But since when have multiple impactors ever been observed to form such tightly spaced crater chains (or, moreover, smooth, long, and homogeneous troughs or ridges)? Never.

Look at, for example, the Martian moon Phobos. Its surface features are very comet-like and offer no explanation under the Standard Model for its terrain. If anything the Martian moons may actually be captured comets--at very least asteroids or even chunks of excavated Martian crust. But this idea is never seriously discussed. Only one idea that has now been disproven with space probes--that of comets being deeply frozen icy bodies from the Kuiper Belt--is discussed.
Last edited by viscount aero on Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby antosarai » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:45 am

There will be in the coming months, one supposes, enough time for Rosetta's science instrumentation to collect facts, solid facts. Above and way beyond ideas, theories and interests.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby paladin17 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:28 pm

antosarai wrote:There will be in the coming months, one supposes, enough time for Rosetta's science instrumentation to collect facts, solid facts. Above and way beyond ideas, theories and interests.

My only concern is that they're keeping away too much data.
All of the data, in fact, beside the couple of processed images.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby viscount aero » Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:35 pm

When/if (and very likely) they don't encounter the ice, to have the lander anchor to with its "ice anchors," that will be the first "baffling" news from the ESA team :roll: They will act as if they are totally stunned at finding little to no ice to anchor to despite prior missions having revealed comets to be mosty dry asteroids.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby 4realScience » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:11 pm

I say it's a scandal that public money cannot reveal data since it has already been paid for!

The Rosetta probe has many instruments and their data is hopefully pouring forth. Why is it not on the web where it can be interpreted?
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby viscount aero » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:13 pm

4realScience wrote:I say it's a scandal that public money cannot reveal data since it has already been paid for!

The Rosetta probe has many instruments and their data is hopefully pouring forth. Why is it not on the web where it can be interpreted?


Realize that the datastream is immense and must be collated. Most probe data takes years to analyze.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby 4realScience » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:21 pm

It does not take me much time to analyze Langmuir probe data: I can see it in a glance. Their instrument is now active; so where is the data stream?
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